Camping and "Lemming - Born to Die...
Donutdude
10 Jul 2012
Good evening Tankers,
I've been playing for a fair amount of time now. I've managed to obtain my 2 tanks that I always wanted:
- M4 Sherman
- KV-1S
Now, I've noticed that, since obtaining my T-V and T-VI tanks, that a lot of people just do one of the following:
a.) rush forward with no support, and being subsequently disabled early on.
b.) camp at base and make 0 effort to take the fight to the enemy.
c.) when calling for support from other tanks to form a "wolf-pack" style of attack, nobody ever listens.
d.) continuing from c.), nobody seems willing to listen to a SINGLE order I give on the battlefield.
Now, is this simply expecting too much from a game? Or is there SOME way I can get a workaround to fix this? I'm starting to get really disheartened into chasing my Easy Eight and EVENTUAL Patton ( KV-1S will probably stay as is, I really like the 122m and the KV-1S' speed ) or will I have to tolerate A LOT of stupidity?
Yes, I'm one of those people that cares about his W/L percentages. I'm 51% Win to 49% Loss and it's starting to get to me >.> Only comfort I have is I finally hit 55%+ on my accuracy, :-)
Regards,
Donutdude
I've been playing for a fair amount of time now. I've managed to obtain my 2 tanks that I always wanted:
- M4 Sherman
- KV-1S
Now, I've noticed that, since obtaining my T-V and T-VI tanks, that a lot of people just do one of the following:
a.) rush forward with no support, and being subsequently disabled early on.
b.) camp at base and make 0 effort to take the fight to the enemy.
c.) when calling for support from other tanks to form a "wolf-pack" style of attack, nobody ever listens.
d.) continuing from c.), nobody seems willing to listen to a SINGLE order I give on the battlefield.
Now, is this simply expecting too much from a game? Or is there SOME way I can get a workaround to fix this? I'm starting to get really disheartened into chasing my Easy Eight and EVENTUAL Patton ( KV-1S will probably stay as is, I really like the 122m and the KV-1S' speed ) or will I have to tolerate A LOT of stupidity?
Yes, I'm one of those people that cares about his W/L percentages. I'm 51% Win to 49% Loss and it's starting to get to me >.> Only comfort I have is I finally hit 55%+ on my accuracy, :-)
Regards,
Donutdude
coldnexusfrontline
10 Jul 2012
ready to die by andrew W.K sums up what I think of lemmings.They have nothing more than sacrifces to give to the enemy and usually last long enough.
CaptainRoach
10 Jul 2012
I sometimes get frustrated as hell too, losing streaks always seem to come when I'm doing doubles as well, and inevitably when I win it was a particularly bad game for me so I get naff all xp. But to address your points:
A) Lots of people use Tier 5 and 6 for grinding credits, nothing else. So they tend to go purely for damage caused or scouting done rather than trying to win the game. From their point of view it's better to sprint off and get 6 good full damage shots in and die, then load up another Tier 5/6 tank and crack on. I've done it myself plenty (and still feel a bit guilty)
B) Different tactic but same result as above. You'll make 'some' profit regardless while you're off playing a different tank.
C) People tend to have an idealised version of how the battle will go in their heads, or they have some particular tactic that has worked for them in the past. They will pursue this goal regardless of how the rest of the battle develops. Also guilty of this, but recently I've tried to watch the minimap and cover the areas that everyone else is ignoring, whether or not my particular tank suits this role. May mean a reduced score for yourself, but if you hold up the flank long enough it could mean a win.
D) Relates to C. I'd only ever give an 'order' if I was in the top 3rd, and then only if I genuinely needed help (one of the top heavies and I was going to push for example) Most people will ignore because it's not part of THEIR PLAN, but you'll always find a couple of people with no particular strategy following along, but generally only if you're a scary top tank and will give them a chance of surviving and getting good kills.
So basically: you have to include the particular WOT mindset into your strategies. It may be blindingly obvious to you (and it often is) where each allied tank should be to maximise their effectiveness, but you also have to predict what people's priorities and abilities are. Is that Lowe driver a pro grinding credits and likely to brush aside all opposition while getting 5 kills or some guy with 100 games and more money than patience? In this game always remember: no plan survives contact with the enemy. Or your allies.
A) Lots of people use Tier 5 and 6 for grinding credits, nothing else. So they tend to go purely for damage caused or scouting done rather than trying to win the game. From their point of view it's better to sprint off and get 6 good full damage shots in and die, then load up another Tier 5/6 tank and crack on. I've done it myself plenty (and still feel a bit guilty)
B) Different tactic but same result as above. You'll make 'some' profit regardless while you're off playing a different tank.
C) People tend to have an idealised version of how the battle will go in their heads, or they have some particular tactic that has worked for them in the past. They will pursue this goal regardless of how the rest of the battle develops. Also guilty of this, but recently I've tried to watch the minimap and cover the areas that everyone else is ignoring, whether or not my particular tank suits this role. May mean a reduced score for yourself, but if you hold up the flank long enough it could mean a win.
D) Relates to C. I'd only ever give an 'order' if I was in the top 3rd, and then only if I genuinely needed help (one of the top heavies and I was going to push for example) Most people will ignore because it's not part of THEIR PLAN, but you'll always find a couple of people with no particular strategy following along, but generally only if you're a scary top tank and will give them a chance of surviving and getting good kills.
So basically: you have to include the particular WOT mindset into your strategies. It may be blindingly obvious to you (and it often is) where each allied tank should be to maximise their effectiveness, but you also have to predict what people's priorities and abilities are. Is that Lowe driver a pro grinding credits and likely to brush aside all opposition while getting 5 kills or some guy with 100 games and more money than patience? In this game always remember: no plan survives contact with the enemy. Or your allies.
Honza_H34
10 Jul 2012
Born to die, live to die, seems legit. No way to fix people : )
I understand your anger, but as for the commanding part, i admit i never listen to anyones commands and i never give commands, regardless of mine or his tier, except for endgame. Just stick to what i think is best or what minimap says is best, most commands are usually calls into death trap.
Edited by Honza_H34, 10 July 2012 - 10:40 PM.
I understand your anger, but as for the commanding part, i admit i never listen to anyones commands and i never give commands, regardless of mine or his tier, except for endgame. Just stick to what i think is best or what minimap says is best, most commands are usually calls into death trap.
Edited by Honza_H34, 10 July 2012 - 10:40 PM.
Legz
10 Jul 2012
welcome to the tier 8 premium bracket
Edited by Legz, 10 July 2012 - 10:41 PM.
Edited by Legz, 10 July 2012 - 10:41 PM.
IndianaJonnie
10 Jul 2012
I tend to send out a quick "plan?" message on team-chat with 14/15 seconds left on countdown to see if anybody has any ideas. Even if nobody replies, they at least know someone's thinking tactically and they might chirp up/follow later on.
The worst is when people issue commands after they're dead. I don't mind them watching my back, telling me when they see tree go down etc. but don't clog chat with your incessant pinging.
The worst is when people issue commands after they're dead. I don't mind them watching my back, telling me when they see tree go down etc. but don't clog chat with your incessant pinging.
Stamatus13
10 Jul 2012
Tier 5 is the entrance to a whole new Wot. It's the tier where your beloved tank meets T7/8 tanks, and this is where the problem is.
An average tanker of a T7/8 tank will have around 1000 random battles under his belt. At that time the tanker has developed his personal opinion about the game, the maps, the players etc. So he has his own plan about the battle. Multiply this to 8 or 9, so when entering a T8 battle you'll face an average 8 or 9 different tactics. It's impossible to change their minds with orders in chat and that apllies for everyone driving T7 or higher tank, including me of course. When I see a T5 saying "left flank" during count-down but I know a good spot to the right, I'll go right.
Worse problem is when you have teammates that don't adjust their plans during the battle. Especially the med tanks should adopt new tactics immediatelly after something important happens to the map. e.g. loss of the top heavy, everyone going to one flank etc. And this is something I don't do. I always change my plans according to the battle.
Things are a bit better when you have some high tier platoons in your game. For example 3 T8 heavies platoon. They will have a certain plan for the battle, and usually they will attract the L-train with them and if you are lucky enough you and 2-3 teammates that use their brains can cover the opposite flank from the plattoon.
But for me the worst is when I'm playing with an SPG. From time to time it happens to be in a team where no one scouts, almost everyone camps, flanks are falling fast and when they die they yell "Noob arty". It's almost a joke for me
An average tanker of a T7/8 tank will have around 1000 random battles under his belt. At that time the tanker has developed his personal opinion about the game, the maps, the players etc. So he has his own plan about the battle. Multiply this to 8 or 9, so when entering a T8 battle you'll face an average 8 or 9 different tactics. It's impossible to change their minds with orders in chat and that apllies for everyone driving T7 or higher tank, including me of course. When I see a T5 saying "left flank" during count-down but I know a good spot to the right, I'll go right.
Worse problem is when you have teammates that don't adjust their plans during the battle. Especially the med tanks should adopt new tactics immediatelly after something important happens to the map. e.g. loss of the top heavy, everyone going to one flank etc. And this is something I don't do. I always change my plans according to the battle.
Things are a bit better when you have some high tier platoons in your game. For example 3 T8 heavies platoon. They will have a certain plan for the battle, and usually they will attract the L-train with them and if you are lucky enough you and 2-3 teammates that use their brains can cover the opposite flank from the plattoon.
But for me the worst is when I'm playing with an SPG. From time to time it happens to be in a team where no one scouts, almost everyone camps, flanks are falling fast and when they die they yell "Noob arty". It's almost a joke for me
VeyronS
10 Jul 2012
Probably the best way to make it better is playing in platoons.
I dont like anyone commanding in randoms as it usally leads in even bigger mess, some listen, some dont. You can just try to direct them if they do something really wrong and sometimes they listen when you explain why its a bad idea. I dont listen to others either because i think i know what im supposed to do with my tank after so many battles and i often get really bad advice, leading me and half of team to death. I'm trying to make my tactics as dynamic as possible. Following same plan from start without taking into consideration what enemy is doing often leads into trap with no way out, like rushing for hills and such when enemys are waiting for it.
For me the only way to make this game playable is driving mostly medium tanks. When driving mediums you are way more independent from your team and can even support multiple locations when needed. With heavys you usally have to choose one route and hope your team doesnt fail elsewhere, when they do you wont have enough mobility to change your plan. Teamwork is nice but it doesnt seem to work with 15 random people of whom some can barely read.
I dont like anyone commanding in randoms as it usally leads in even bigger mess, some listen, some dont. You can just try to direct them if they do something really wrong and sometimes they listen when you explain why its a bad idea. I dont listen to others either because i think i know what im supposed to do with my tank after so many battles and i often get really bad advice, leading me and half of team to death. I'm trying to make my tactics as dynamic as possible. Following same plan from start without taking into consideration what enemy is doing often leads into trap with no way out, like rushing for hills and such when enemys are waiting for it.
For me the only way to make this game playable is driving mostly medium tanks. When driving mediums you are way more independent from your team and can even support multiple locations when needed. With heavys you usally have to choose one route and hope your team doesnt fail elsewhere, when they do you wont have enough mobility to change your plan. Teamwork is nice but it doesnt seem to work with 15 random people of whom some can barely read.
QuakeRiley
10 Jul 2012
A lot of people rush off thinking they have support when the rest of the team sees a sucidal idiot, who isn't. This would apply to c as well.
Something you forgot is someone sitting in the open then complaining at the team saying stuff "now we've lost" and such when really, they were sitting exposed just tempting death.
Something you forgot is someone sitting in the open then complaining at the team saying stuff "now we've lost" and such when really, they were sitting exposed just tempting death.
DingIsHere
10 Jul 2012
welcome to the interwebby ...
please leave any reasonable and realistic reasoning at the door...
expect extremely low quality teammates and you may occasionally get a nice surprise.
viva la republic!
please leave any reasonable and realistic reasoning at the door...
expect extremely low quality teammates and you may occasionally get a nice surprise.
viva la republic!
Shanina
10 Jul 2012
At least you left the tier 1 and 2 teamkillers behind you, so you're heading in the right direction 
What you say happens a lot though, I also expected more better players who learned something on the road to tier 5 and 6.
Regarding asking others for help or sort out some kind of battle plan before the game start, keep in mind many don't understand english.
Keep your requests as simple as possible and maybe some understand what you say.
Also, ask nicely. Sounds odd, but "please" does a lot.
When you like, you can add me to your in game friends list and we can do some platoons.
Edited by Shanina, 10 July 2012 - 11:56 PM.
What you say happens a lot though, I also expected more better players who learned something on the road to tier 5 and 6.
Regarding asking others for help or sort out some kind of battle plan before the game start, keep in mind many don't understand english.
Keep your requests as simple as possible and maybe some understand what you say.
Also, ask nicely. Sounds odd, but "please" does a lot.
When you like, you can add me to your in game friends list and we can do some platoons.
Edited by Shanina, 10 July 2012 - 11:56 PM.
AN225
10 Jul 2012
Donutdude, on 10 July 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:
d.) continuing from c.), nobody seems willing to listen to a SINGLE order I give on the battlefield.
Who the piiiip is you to give orders?? Why every single player here think that he is a general and everyone have to listen to him??? With 15 little generals moving around you have no army there, just bunch of ppl at the wrong place...
Try sometimes to ASK ppl to do something, to help somewhere, that might lead you somewhere... As Shanina said, you might even try to say "please", or "can you please", you know, basic conversation?
And yea, for that "piiiip" there, pick any bad word you want...
PS: IF you want to be general and give orders, cut this game and go to army ffs...
PPS: Best regards to those few that can communicate in normal way
steview162
11 Jul 2012
Dogstar
11 Jul 2012
As fas as I'm concerned if you're not the top tank you shouldn't be giving out 'orders' - asking for help is a different matter though
FoeHamster419
11 Jul 2012
Quote
d.) continuing from c.), nobody seems willing to listen to a SINGLE order I give on the battlefield.
Who promoted you to general in charge of the retard theatre?
Mardukar
11 Jul 2012
Tactical insight is not related to ones tier. A player driving a T5 may be 10x more rational and insightful than one driving a T8-10. Fact of the matter is that WoT does not lend itself towards tactics at all. In WoT outside of clan frameworks there is only "luck". The "luck" that at least half of your 15 team mates managed to work in concert and pulled of a fantastic run (which time and time again feels awesome). The "luck" that the other team fails on that one, etc. The "luck" that one player sees your situation/manoeuvre and accurately responds to it. There is no communication in WoT other than ppl using the chat to say 'hi' in a dozen languages, inform about others of their set language, to make funny comments, to taunt the enemy, to call others noobs or to say "gj" when its over and its a win. The odd "team lets do this" never really gets any attention. That's sad... but that's just how it is. And how can you change it? There is simply no reason why players would abide by tactical rules or play it smart in random matches. The only reason to form a battleplan in the context of a WoT random is by consensus... Good luck with that XD
Edited by Mardukar, 11 July 2012 - 09:12 AM.
Edited by Mardukar, 11 July 2012 - 09:12 AM.
Donutdude
11 Jul 2012
First of all, thank you everyone for your responses.
To those saying, "Who're you to give orders?", please leave my thread alone. I'd appreciate keeping this constructive.
To the rest of you, I appreciate your input and will consider what you've said as I play. I have indeed noticed that many people in WoT do not speak / speak very little English, which is quite frustrating. However, I do understand that it's not a requirement to know English and I've come to live with that.
With regards to giving out orders as a T5 / T6, I never give them like a General of a real army does. A lot of the time I put them as suggestions / questions so perhaps me saying "giving orders" was a bad phrase to use. Should Tier really matter when it comes to suggesting things on the battlefield? We're all here to play and win, I'm guessing, so if someone has a plan then wouldn't be a good idea to give it a try if nobody else has one? If it works out well, GG to all. If it works out bad, apologise and re-think for next time.
To those saying, "Who're you to give orders?", please leave my thread alone. I'd appreciate keeping this constructive.
To the rest of you, I appreciate your input and will consider what you've said as I play. I have indeed noticed that many people in WoT do not speak / speak very little English, which is quite frustrating. However, I do understand that it's not a requirement to know English and I've come to live with that.
With regards to giving out orders as a T5 / T6, I never give them like a General of a real army does. A lot of the time I put them as suggestions / questions so perhaps me saying "giving orders" was a bad phrase to use. Should Tier really matter when it comes to suggesting things on the battlefield? We're all here to play and win, I'm guessing, so if someone has a plan then wouldn't be a good idea to give it a try if nobody else has one? If it works out well, GG to all. If it works out bad, apologise and re-think for next time.
