Jump to content


The Lorraine feeling


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
127 replies to this topic

Nixouf #41 Posted 03 April 2012 - 07:45 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8499 battles
  • 1,020
  • Member since:
    01-13-2012

View Postdheim, on 02 April 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

it happened to t54s as well, at their introduction they were practically invincible!

French tanks have never been invincible. I have still my pre-nerf 7.1 replay with 5 batchats in my team vs 0 french tank in ennemy team, batchats getting utterly massacred in two minuts against IS heavies.


The victory ratio/global ratio  difference for the batchat was around 0.5% and 1.5% difference so yeah it overperformed slightly but nothing to justify the OMGZ OP TANK community complain.

1% victory ratio difference doesn't make you any invincible



PS: This is less difference than the Minimaus (3-4%) which never got nerfed. Neither the Tetrarch, nor the T127. Those tanks are overperforming far more than batchat and nobody complains?

CrimsonEntropy #42 Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:46 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 29049 battles
  • 530
  • Member since:
    01-23-2012
I moved from the wonderful 13 90 to this tonight and...

I do feel as if I just wasted 2 million hard-earned credits. Vent + Wet Ammo Rack + Binoculars + 100% crew (well into their second perks) and ok...3 games in so it's entirely stock aside from the radio but it's large, it's slow and I don't feel as if I'm able to achieve anything that the 13 90 couldn't. In fact I don't think it's even remotely as good in terms of disposing of enemy tanks, and it's certainly not as fun to drive whilst everything on the enemy team will unload right in your face if you dare show it....at all.

I'm not asking for a return to the pre-nerf days and I'm certainly in favour of balance.

When does it start to be fun? Not owning everyone with a faceroll but simple fun.

panzerknackers #43 Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:56 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 14124 battles
  • 60
  • Member since:
    09-24-2011
only frenchie i have left is the Bat Chat, but im pretty sure thats headed out the door aswell. Fun Factor =0.

Dublin_Gunner #44 Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:29 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • 17139 battles
  • 901
  • Member since:
    07-12-2010
They may as well get rid of the cartridge thing and give the French tanks a 6 second reload between each shell. In reality that's how they play now with the aiming and reload nerfs.

sharpneli #45 Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:42 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostNixouf, on 03 April 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

The victory ratio/global ratio  difference for the batchat was around 0.5% and 1.5% difference so yeah it overperformed slightly but nothing to justify the OMGZ OP TANK community complain.

1% victory ratio difference doesn't make you any invincible
Yeah, which is why batchat only got a slight nerf, not huge nerfhammer. Lolraine was actually better than batchat and that's why it got bigger nerf (larger autoloader fire rate nerf etc).

View PostNixouf, on 03 April 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

PS: This is less difference than the Minimaus (3-4%) which never got nerfed. Neither the Tetrarch, nor the T127. Those tanks are overperforming far more than batchat and nobody complains?

2 reasons. They're premium tanks and they're very lowtier tanks so no-one really cares (which is why we do not have massive whines in forums regarding the tanks). WG has never nerfed a premium, and probably will not.

Dublin_Gunner #46 Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:56 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • 17139 battles
  • 901
  • Member since:
    07-12-2010

View Postsharpneli, on 04 April 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Yeah, which is why batchat only got a slight nerf, not huge nerfhammer. Lolraine was actually better than batchat and that's why it got bigger nerf (larger autoloader fire rate nerf etc).



2 reasons. They're premium tanks and they're very lowtier tanks so no-one really cares. WG has never nerfed a premium, and probably will not.

Are you serious?

sharpneli #47 Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:37 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostDublin_Gunner, on 04 April 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Are you serious?

Yes. They have never nerfed a premium because it's gray area on what should happen for the buyers of that tank.

And let's not get to the concept of 'ninja nerfs'. I've had all T8 premiums right at their introduction to the game and nothing has happened to them. I can't attest to all the smaller ones but I'd guess nothing has done to them either.

Part of the reason I think they will never change their minds is type, they preferred to remove it from the store than nerf it.

Mr_Sukebe #48 Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:42 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 32377 battles
  • 2,623
  • [ZOLO] ZOLO
  • Member since:
    06-04-2011

View PostDublin_Gunner, on 04 April 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

They may as well get rid of the cartridge thing and give the French tanks a 6 second reload between each shell. In reality that's how they play now with the aiming and reload nerfs.

That might be considered a buff, be careful.
Just remember that to fire and fully reload the Lorraine takes 110 seconds IIRC, which means an actual fire rate average over a min of 1 round/12 seconds.  A LOT of peopple like to forget that, particularly those complaining about how OP the French tanks were.
Give them a reload rate of every 6 seconds and you'll nearly double the effective fire rate.

DD_Ash #49 Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Beta Tester
  • 15956 battles
  • 62
  • Member since:
    09-01-2010
The problem with the nerfhammer coming down so hard on the french mediums is that it comes at a time when everyone has just got used to playing against them as well. Yes they probably did need some minor adjustments but as has been pointed out, none were massively over performing.

You see a batchat or lorraine solo and you attack it in pairs, pressure the reload then hammer it hard, especially if you track it first = easiest kill you'll ever make.

Good teamwork makes any tank weaker and your position stronger, but is so seldom seen outside of clanwars.

I can see the opposite side as well, get a few 13 90's, batchats or lorraines working together well and you have a powerful offensive force BUT the same goes for a group of E50's, pattons, pershings, t54's, etc.

Hell I've even been totally owned by a t-50-2 in my amx 50 100 when he pounced on me as i reloaded, 50 seconds of nothing but trying to turn whilst he ran rings round me faster than I could swivel turret & traverse and he just pounded me into pieces (btw - don't get me started on T50-2 - THAT is an OP piece of junk that makes a mockery of this game but will be left alone by the devs)

My opinion is that the burst of short term alpha was the only strength of the French autoloading tanks and its been seriously killed by WG over reacting to the whiners who could not handle adjusting their playstyles to counter it.

CrimsonEntropy #50 Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:00 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 29049 battles
  • 530
  • Member since:
    01-23-2012

View PostDD_Ash, on 04 April 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

The problem with the nerfhammer coming down so hard on the french mediums is that it comes at a time when everyone has just got used to playing against them as well. Yes they probably did need some minor adjustments but as has been pointed out, none were massively over performing.

You see a batchat or lorraine solo and you attack it in pairs, pressure the reload then hammer it hard, especially if you track it first = easiest kill you'll ever make.

Good teamwork makes any tank weaker and your position stronger, but is so seldom seen outside of clanwars.

I can see the opposite side as well, get a few 13 90's, batchats or lorraines working together well and you have a powerful offensive force BUT the same goes for a group of E50's, pattons, pershings, t54's, etc.

Hell I've even been totally owned by a t-50-2 in my amx 50 100 when he pounced on me as i reloaded, 50 seconds of nothing but trying to turn whilst he ran rings round me faster than I could swivel turret & traverse and he just pounded me into pieces (btw - don't get me started on T50-2 - THAT is an OP piece of junk that makes a mockery of this game but will be left alone by the devs)

My opinion is that the burst of short term alpha was the only strength of the French autoloading tanks and its been seriously killed by WG over reacting to the whiners who could not handle adjusting their playstyles to counter it.

+rep to you Sir - succinct and to the point.

Edward_Teague #51 Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 32642 battles
  • 1,056
  • Member since:
    02-07-2011
I was able to pawn tier X tanks with my lorry and now I can't anymore QQ cry me a river!!!

LoL

Nerfbat was needed but it was a bit too severe !

Dublin_Gunner #52 Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:46 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • 17139 battles
  • 901
  • Member since:
    07-12-2010

View PostEdward_Teague, on 04 April 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

I was able to pawn tier X tanks with my lorry and now I can't anymore QQ cry me a river!!!

LoL

Nerfbat was needed but it was a bit too severe !

If anyone in a T10 got pwned by a Lorraine, they don't deserve to be in a t10. Never mind the fact that a Lorraine can't dish out enough HP to take out ANY t10 in 6 shells. (well, in theory it can, but in practice.....)

Nixouf #53 Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:57 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8499 battles
  • 1,020
  • Member since:
    01-13-2012

View Postsharpneli, on 04 April 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

they're very lowtier tanks so no-one really cares

Shouldn't.

On last snapshot Tier 1 was more played than tier 10, tier2 was more played than tier 9, and tieer3 tier4 were played about as much as tier7 tier 8

zbing #54 Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:24 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 22862 battles
  • 1,331
  • Member since:
    12-24-2010
I think Lorry is still fun and -if driven carefully- the deadliest of all tier 8 meds. True, my win ratio has also dropped a little bit after the patch (60% > 58%) but it's still hell of a tank IMHO. With 90mm DCA, of course... 100mm gun is just too slow and literally cripples this fine piece of machinery.

PanzerPunisher #55 Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:55 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Beta Tester
  • 25508 battles
  • 82
  • [UBER-] UBER-
  • Member since:
    09-19-2010

View PostShadyDave, on 03 April 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

I moved from the wonderful 13 90 to this tonight and...

I do feel as if I just wasted 2 million hard-earned credits. Vent + Wet Ammo Rack + Binoculars + 100% crew (well into their second perks) and ok...3 games in so it's entirely stock aside from the radio but it's large, it's slow and I don't feel as if I'm able to achieve anything that the 13 90 couldn't. In fact I don't think it's even remotely as good in terms of disposing of enemy tanks, and it's certainly not as fun to drive whilst everything on the enemy team will unload right in your face if you dare show it....at all.

I'm not asking for a return to the pre-nerf days and I'm certainly in favour of balance.

When does it start to be fun? Not owning everyone with a faceroll but simple fun.
Don't worry, once you get the tracks, 2nd engine and 2nd 90mm installed it becomes a fairly nice tank.
100mm is too slow for Lorraine imho.

Still, be careful of where you drive and try to snipe.
Good luck!

Dragonite #56 Posted 06 April 2012 - 02:23 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 20266 battles
  • 105
  • Member since:
    04-18-2011
I must say that after so many "OMG" topics after tests i been sure that indeed this tank got nerfed into oblivion. But i found it as not so bad in reality after patch. Yes, it is "worse" than before, of course, specialy aiming time is very annoying in tank without armour, but generaly is still far from "rubbish" ;) Still see it as "fun to drive" BUT ! with 90 mm gun. Top gun is just too slow in shoting and in reload time, wery slow. If it would improve pen and damage A LOT - it would be worth to try, but as for now its not good deal for me.

Cobra6 #57 Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:40 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16474 battles
  • 16,852
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010
Since 7.2 patch this tank is dead. Period. All the fun is gone and it feels paper thin now.

I won't be playing it much anymore as there is no use, gaining XP has been ground to a halt and the fun factor has been stamped into the ground.

Shame, WG finally made a fun tank and now after constant whining they destroyed this one as well.

I'm playing with the 90mm due to it's faster reload but as the aim time and everything is now the same as the 100mm, the reload has been nerfed over the comfortable edge this tank is just meh. Nice work WG, you did it once again.

Stop trying to get every damn tank to 50% win rating and accept some tanks are better than others, that is part of the whole damn reward system.

Cobra 6

Nirvana #58 Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:29 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 18988 battles
  • 1,675
  • Member since:
    06-01-2011
Well, actually I though that the Lorraine was the most OP tank in game for a while, even more so than the BatChat. Same gun as the Bat, at tier 8. Crazy fast (fastest tier 8), good accuracy (about the same as the Panther II), crazy penetration (more than some tier 9 heavies; penetration is still there), crazy alpha strike (due to the 6 shots), wild gun depression (haven't checked on the Lorraine itself, but the Chat had more gun depression than practically any American tank) and enough HP to rush into a group of 3 tanks, unload all 6 shells and get away (done that, a Lorraine rushed into a group of me in IS4, a Lowe and a damaged Pershing; all 3 shot it, it killed the Pershing and ran away before me and the Lowe even reloaded; now tell me that's not screwed up). So I do believe that a nerf was in order.

I also believe, that they've overdone it, making these tanks from OP (hence the very widespread use) to quite UP. Accuracy is bad now, as well as the overall reload time. Not only that, but the reload between shells in the same clip is ridiculous. Did a test with an AMX 13 90 and a Chaffee, and the Chaffee actually shot faster, except it didn't have to stop after 6 shots. Aim time was always low, but right now is downright outrageous. And gun depression went from too much to not enough. Basically, they went from one extreme to the other. And that also is quite screwed up, I think.

So I agree, it isn't as fun as before. WG exaggerated with the nerf hammer.

Zszywacz #59 Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:34 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 9321 battles
  • 442
  • Member since:
    05-07-2011
P2 has a 203mm pen gun, but it catches fire from front, has tall profile, turns hull slowly and aims longer than Pershing and T-44.
Lorraine has a 212 and 232 mm pen guns. The 100mm also deals 300 dmg, so figure out why did the devs give it such weaknesses (232mm compared to 175mm on T-44 and 180mm on Pershing is well... a lot more).

This is the first high tier medium that has equal penetration to same tier hieavies.
This is the first medium that can very reliably penetrate tier 8 heavies' front. Mediums in this game are not designed to be able to fight heavies head on from front.

In american medium tanks' section there is a topic where people argue about the frenchies taking over the role of a paper thin mediums (faster, more penetration, same armour == just better flankers).

ScienceWoona #60 Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:42 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • 12158 battles
  • 697
  • Member since:
    08-05-2010
French tanks probably deserved a nerf but at the same time i'd have waited a little longer since people were learning to deal with them and alot of the nerfs they got like gun depression are just plain annoying. Now they're by no means bad but a fair bit of the fun factor is gone.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users