Jump to content


Did WG go overboard with the nerf on Batchat?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
71 replies to this topic

Poll: Did WG go overboard with the nerf on Batchat? (298 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Did WG go overboard with the nerf on Batchat?

  1. Yes, they killed it. (177 votes [59.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.40%

  2. No, they didn't nerf it enough. (45 votes [15.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.10%

  3. They did a good job, now it is balanced. (76 votes [25.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.50%

Should they buff it in the next patch?

  1. Yes, it needs a small buff. (187 votes [62.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.75%

  2. No. Its fine now, leave it as it is. (68 votes [22.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.82%

  3. No. It needs another nerf. (43 votes [14.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.43%

Vote Hide poll

Sniper_Pirate #21 Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:00 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 44965 battles
  • 13
  • [AXIOM] AXIOM
  • Member since:
    05-21-2011
still i great tank only problem is get set of fire a lot now. can still kill any other tier 9 no problem

Yozzman #22 Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:11 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 20507 battles
  • 309
  • Member since:
    09-30-2010
Gun is horrible, random bouncing shots and aiming time is too long.

Now i use it only as a scout, not much more.

mamlas #23 Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:39 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • 14704 battles
  • 656
  • [-322-] -322-
  • Member since:
    12-22-2010

View PostSasoStylez, on 18 April 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

They nerfed the cannon,reload,fire between shot and elevation,so why they didnt reduce the 100mm ammo cost too?1030 its too high,make it 500-600, since they lowered the tank/damage performance why we have to pay for a high ammo cost?-.-

Get T-54, then you will see what ammo costs mean. This is paradise:D

XxXSpottedYouXxX #24 Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:48 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 23824 battles
  • 8,336
  • [4077] 4077
  • Member since:
    05-05-2011

View PostYozzman, on 18 April 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Gun is horrible, random bouncing shots and aiming time is too long.

Now i use it only as a scout, not much more.


Its like this for all the tanks with the 100mm and the 120mm.



This over board nerfing was very drastic the tanks have been totally ruined they need to be properly balanced.

sharpneli #25 Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:16 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostDerRizerPin, on 18 April 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

This over board nerfing was very drastic the tanks have been totally ruined they need to be properly balanced.

What would you consider 'balanced', as of now WR wise batchat is still best T9 med (Only battles at 7.2 have been taken into account, so no stats from the pre nerf time contaminate them). So if tank which tops the WR list is totally ruined what about the tanks below it?

mamlas #26 Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:34 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • 14704 battles
  • 656
  • [-322-] -322-
  • Member since:
    12-22-2010

View Postsharpneli, on 18 April 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

What would you consider 'balanced', as of now WR wise batchat is still best T9 med (Only battles at 7.2 have been taken into account, so no stats from the pre nerf time contaminate them). So if tank which tops the WR list is totally ruined what about the tanks below it?

True, but you have to look at the tendency too. Batmobiles WR drops by some 0,5 % per week as a result of more and more "new players" getting it. And it has this tendency from the day it was launched...we can only guess where will it stop. Id expect somewhere around the 48/49 mark tbh.

Second thing to take into consideration is, that the batchat population in fact dropped in the last days, and seems to continue to do so...

lonigus #27 Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:57 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 33388 battles
  • 8,022
  • [T-ESA] T-ESA
  • Member since:
    09-26-2011

View Postmamlas, on 18 April 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Second thing to take into consideration is, that the batchat population in fact dropped in the last days, and seems to continue to do so...

Iam one of the ppl that droped the tank and it is beaing covered from dust in the garage. 1500 HP covered with paper. Gun tends to same as in the Lorraine40t to shoot so random that it is beyond my wildest imagination how could they nerf it so much... Also the aiming time is... Horrible lol

sharpneli #28 Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:59 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View Postmamlas, on 18 April 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

True, but you have to look at the tendency too. Batmobiles WR drops by some 0,5 % per week as a result of more and more "new players" getting it. And it has this tendency from the day it was launched...we can only guess where will it stop. Id expect somewhere around the 48/49 mark tbh.

Second thing to take into consideration is, that the batchat population in fact dropped in the last days, and seems to continue to do so...

When the average WR of batchat player is compared to his/hers WR on batchat the WR is still very much in line on what is expected with other T9 medium tanks.

As a funny sidenote. From players who have more than 1 T9 med the batchat is at second place. Patton takes the lead by almost a per cent difference.

Nixouf #29 Posted 18 April 2012 - 04:36 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8499 battles
  • 1,020
  • Member since:
    01-13-2012

View Postsharpneli, on 18 April 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

When the average WR of batchat player is compared to his/hers WR on batchat the WR is still very much in line on what is expected with other T9 medium tanks.

Batchat Win ratio stats are biased upwards by the fact that Bat chatillon is the most played T9 medium by the best players. Best players prefer it over all other T9 meds.

So it has a higher WR than it "should" have had if it had been played by average people instead.

See the category: "Best 10 tanks by global win ratio
What tanks are driven by the best and worst players?"


I'm pretty sure those didn't drop too much because most "average " players just sold it after the nerf. It's an elitist tank now.

brick128 #30 Posted 18 April 2012 - 04:57 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 29702 battles
  • 1,478
  • Member since:
    01-19-2011

View PostIhmemies, on 16 April 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

Batchat is still the best tier9 medium. They didn't nerf it hard enough.
First of all.
Do you own a Batmobile?
As I can see you only have the lorraine. Can't compare the two.

Then.
Why do you think Bat is the best T9 med?

And what do you think they should nerf even more about it?

XxXSpottedYouXxX #31 Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:49 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 23824 battles
  • 8,336
  • [4077] 4077
  • Member since:
    05-05-2011
Bat Chat is not best Tier 9.


What do i want in terms of balance ?


Someone who understands how to properly adjust things instead of being lazy nerfing everything to the ground the easy way out of a situation.

SlicerDicer #32 Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:07 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 1 battle
  • 1,807
  • Member since:
    05-08-2011
My opinion:
6 shots to IS4's arse, killing it from full health->raging IS4 player
1499 damage from penetrating GW Panther shot-> raging bat shit Bat Chat player.

Who's happy?

Uncle_Flasher #33 Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:35 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 96384 battles
  • 126
  • [_GUN_] _GUN_
  • Member since:
    06-12-2011
Problem is the reload time between shots.

Previous poster said about 6 shots up the IS4, but now it will take 20 sec to unload those 6 shots, time enough for Mr angry is4 to put 2 in to you and rip out the essentials.

With a 40 sec load time, and a 20 sec discharge time ( not allowing for the 6 sec aim ) the bat now fires 6 shots a min, well, my E50 can do that with half the aiming time and armour that works.


Its selling point was the high damage/min ratio. and that quite simply no longer exists.


The 4 sec reload now allows the tank you are attacking to return 2 or even 3 in to you and they will all pen and 50% will do module/crew damage.

The tank has lost its selling point, and with the crazy gun accuracy, its no good as a 2nd line sniper.

kryb #34 Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:45 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 42288 battles
  • 334
  • Member since:
    04-09-2011
now he is a piece of shit, i don't play him anymore

hetismij #35 Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:11 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16024 battles
  • 92
  • Member since:
    01-03-2011
I want to go as far as that it has completely killed ALL the fun I had in this game. I have hardly played since the update.

EVERY SINGLE TIME I go for a tank I really want, it gets screwed over. Why the hell should I bother trying to go for a certain tank anymore? If i'm not going for a tank, it means there is no reason to buy a new tanks since it will be stock and it will suck. That means I am stuck in the same tanks on the same maps with only one game mode.


booooorrrrrriiiiinnnnnngggggggggg

Eternally the same crappy maps (I am getting REALLY bored with getting Lakeville about 50% of the time). Eternally the insane bounces/0% hits etc.. etc...

I sold the Bat last night.

The only reason I did not de-install the complete game is that my girlfriend like playing the t57 every once in a while.

sharpneli #36 Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:15 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostNixouf, on 18 April 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Batchat Win ratio stats are biased upwards by the fact that Bat chatillon is the most played T9 medium by the best players. Best players prefer it over all other T9 meds.

So it has a higher WR than it "should" have had if it had been played by average people instead.

See the category: "Best 10 tanks by global win ratio
What tanks are driven by the best and worst players?"


I'm pretty sure those didn't drop too much because most "average " players just sold it after the nerf. It's an elitist tank now.

Consider that 50B dropped from the first place to second last (It's now just above E-100 as the second worst T10 tank WR wise). Why did average players sell batchat but not 50B? Why 50B did not become 'elitist' tank but batchat and lorraine did? Also how do you explain that the average WR of 50B players is 54% even though the WR of 50B itself is so low? Doesn't that imply that 50B is simply bad?

I think it's more likely that the nerf (which was pretty much the same for all frenchies) was ok for Batchat&Lorraine but too much for poor 50B.

Nixouf #37 Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:22 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8499 battles
  • 1,020
  • Member since:
    01-13-2012

View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Consider that 50B dropped from the first place to second last (It's now just above E-100 as the second worst T10 tank WR wise). Why did average players sell batchat but not 50B?


Average Amx50B owners DID sell their amx50B or don't you see it is the n°1 on the "best players choice" list?

The fact that its WR is so low tells you how much it got screwed, it's bad now so just imagine how terrible it would be, if its owners were average players (45-48 WR) instead of best players (54% WR)

sharpneli #38 Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:38 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostNixouf, on 19 April 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Average Amx50B owners DID sell their amx50B or don't you see it is the n°1 on the "best players choice" list?

The fact that its WR is so low tells you how much it got screwed, it's bad now so just imagine how terrible it would be, if its owners were average players (45-48 WR) instead of best players (54% WR)

It was N1 on the best players choice on last patch too, nothing has changed in that sense. So no need for average players to sell a tank they did not have in the first place (unless you argue that huge horde of players unlocked 50B and then sold it without playing a single game while also skipping 50 120 so the amount of average players would not show on the stats of that tank).

My point is merely that the WR stats show that while the nerf was overboard for 50B it was nothing too bad for lorraine/batchat, as their WR in relation to WR of the players using them is closer in line to other medium tanks.

Nixouf #39 Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:47 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8499 battles
  • 1,020
  • Member since:
    01-13-2012

View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

It was N1 on the best players choice on last patch too, nothing has changed in that sense. So no need for average players to sell a tank they did not have in the first place


Yes i have seen very bad players with AMX50B. It being still the preferred best players choice is not proving the contrary. Just a question of proportion



View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

My point is merely that the WR stats show that while the nerf was overboard for 50B it was nothing too bad for lorraine/batchat, as their WR in relation to WR of the players using them is closer in line to other medium tanks.

Yes it is too bad for Batchat too, for the simple reason that most of its players, like for the Amx50B, were the best players and it was wway too early, most average players reaching it would have flattened the curb. But now it has become elitist and those average players dropped it, it will keep good stats because best players still play it, so yeah WR is biased.


Lorraine is different story, tier8 has already a too good machtmaking and it being too mobile and powerful, it needed some nerf. Other overperforming tanks like the Tetrarch, the Mini-Maus, the T-127, the Panthers remained untouched.

sharpneli #40 Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:17 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostNixouf, on 19 April 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Yes it is too bad for Batchat too, for the simple reason that most of its players, like for the Amx50B, were the best players and it was wway too early, most average players reaching it would have flattened the curb. But now it has become elitist and those average players dropped it, it will keep good stats because best players still play it, so yeah WR is biased.

There has not been 'average' players on batchat yet, atleast not by any significant numbers.

Let us compare batchat to T-54 and E-50 in cases where the respective players have played at least 150 games on said tank (so being stock does not affect that much).
The first number is the WR of the tank and second is the global WR of the players from which the tank WR has been calculated
Bat Chatillon 25 t		53.46%	  54.20%
E-50					  50.72%	  53.12%
T-54					  50.54%	  53.01%

As we see the WR of batchat is closer to the players average WR (yes the players are better, 1% more average WR but batchat has almost 3% more average WR). So while batchat is indeed driven by marginally better players the said players perform better with batchat than what their avg WR difference to other players would suggest.

Then let us look at players who have more than 1 T9 med


TANK				   PLAYERS  BATTLES  BpP   WIN_RATIO	CLASS_TIER_WR	GLOBAL_WR
M46 Patton				3182	69250   22	54.43%		 52.89%		  54.80%
Bat Chatillon 25 t		3995   124236   31	53.56%		 52.97%		  54.68%
E-50					  4970   112594   23	52.90%		 53.23%		  54.33%
T-54					  5456   118250   22	52.18%		 53.51%		  54.18%

In this chart Patton takes the lead (also my personal experience from playing with patton). However there is nothing to indicate that batchat keeps it's performance only because the players would be exceptionally good, as that would mean that the global WR (and especially class_tier_wr which is the player WR with all other T9 meds except batchat) should be higher.



View PostNixouf, on 19 April 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Lorraine is different story, tier8 has already a too good machtmaking and it being too mobile and powerful, it needed some nerf. Other overperforming tanks like the Tetrarch, the Mini-Maus, the T-127, the Panthers remained untouched.

Panthers are ok WR wise, maybe PII could even use slight buff. The premium tanks are somewhat difficult to balance as they cannot be nerfed without shitstorm of epic proportions and most likely will remain as they are.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users