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Did WG go overboard with the nerf on Batchat?


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Poll: Did WG go overboard with the nerf on Batchat? (298 members have cast votes)

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Did WG go overboard with the nerf on Batchat?

  1. Yes, they killed it. (177 votes [59.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.40%

  2. No, they didn't nerf it enough. (45 votes [15.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.10%

  3. They did a good job, now it is balanced. (76 votes [25.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.50%

Should they buff it in the next patch?

  1. Yes, it needs a small buff. (187 votes [62.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.75%

  2. No. Its fine now, leave it as it is. (68 votes [22.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.82%

  3. No. It needs another nerf. (43 votes [14.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.43%

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Nixouf #41 Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:27 PM

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View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

Panthers are ok WR wise, maybe PII could even use slight buff. The premium tanks are somewhat difficult to balance as they cannot be nerfed without shitstorm of epic proportions and most likely will remain as they are.

Panthers are overperforming by around 1% in most charts. That was more or less the same than batchat before patch. If you consider it needs a buff, then you should consider last patch should have buffed the batchat.


So be consistent.

sharpneli #42 Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:30 PM

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View PostNixouf, on 19 April 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Panthers are overperforming by around 1% in most charts. That was more or less the same than batchat before patch. If you consider it needs a buff, then you should consider last patch should have buffed the batchat.


So be consistent.

Could you please provide links to these 'charts'. As the latest stats from the snibs stat thread show PantherII as the least performing T8 med and PantherI as a well performing (not best but not worst) T7 med. All my info is consistent with the stats from the snibs thread.

Nixouf #43 Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:34 PM

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How to know if a tank is overperforming compared with the whole tankset (not just its tier/class)?

You just compare its win ratio and global win ratio of its owners. If above, its overperforming to their owners. If below, underperforming to their owners. Explained by Snib himself on his topic.

Panthers have around 1% difference between WR and global WR which was close to batchat overperforming before the patch

Nixouf #44 Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:36 PM

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Panther II:     52.62%      51.79%

Panther:   51.58%      50.61%


Above is from snib post


Edit: In other words, playing the panther gives you 1% more chance of winning the game than the average of other tanks most people have.

sharpneli #45 Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:42 PM

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View PostNixouf, on 19 April 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

How to know if a tank is overperforming compared with the whole tankset (not just its tier/class)?

You just compare its win ratio and global win ratio of its owners. If above, its overperforming to their owners. If below, underperforming to their owners. Explained by Snib himself on his topic.

Panthers have around 1% difference between WR and global WR which was close to batchat overperforming before the patch

Ah so the question was not whether batchat is balanced in regards to T9 mediums but what's the total performance of batchat is in relation to all tanks? I have made no comments whatsoever regarding the global performance of all tanks.

I've simply stated that batchat is still the best (or on a tie with patton) T9 med. Balance issues regarding T9 meds in aggregation is a completely separate topic.

Nixouf #46 Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:47 PM

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View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:



I've simply stated that batchat is still the best (or on a tie with patton) T9 med. Balance issues regarding T9 meds in aggregation is a completely separate topic.


And as you can see from Snib stats, T9 meds are underperforming by nearly 3% (aside Patton and Batti)

So the most logical balance would have been to Buff E50 and T54, not to nerf the Batchat. And, keep the batchat as it is for several weeks in order for average people to reach it.

The balance has to be taken into consideration for the whole tankset, not just within a class, because you fight against other tanks of other tier/classes.

sharpneli #47 Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

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View PostNixouf, on 19 April 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

And as you can see from Snib stats, T9 meds are underperforming by nearly 3% (aside Patton and Batti)

So the most logical balance would have been to Buff E50 and T54, not to nerf the Batchat. And, keep the batchat as it is for several weeks in order for average people to reach it.

The balance has to be taken into consideration for the whole tankset, not just within a class, because you fight against other tanks of other tier/classes.

Snib said:

Remember that a perfectly balanced tank (in a perfectly random environment) is one that has exactly the server-wide average win ratio (48.95%). Note that clan wars and tank companies heavily influence the top tiers, however, which is why they are typically higher and their stats are less meaningful.

Or the T9 meds should all be nerfed, as of now they slay the poor T9 heavies ;)

SergeantPunch #48 Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:07 PM

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I killed one with my patton 1 v 1, nuff said.

But of course this tank isn't ruski! so it's ok to nerf it lol, I guess if russians couldn't dominate the battlefield they can dominate this little game to make themselves feel better :Smile_honoring:

Nixouf #49 Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:09 PM

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@Sharpneli:


View PostSnib, on 19 April 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Remember that a perfectly balanced tank (in a perfectly random environment) is one that has exactly the server-wide average win ratio (48.95%).


Dont expect a very good player to have 48.95 nomatter which tank.

People having 53% average win ratio in their tanks, have 50-51% win ratio on their T9 meds. So they need a buff, if balance was really involved.

sharpneli #50 Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:17 PM

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View PostNixouf, on 19 April 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Dont expect a very good player to have 48.95 nomatter which tank.

People having 53% average win ratio in their tanks, have 50-51% win ratio on their T9 meds. So they need a buff, if balance was really involved.

Or the other tanks which allowed the players to get 53% WR needs nerf. Based on that number alone you cannot make judgement which is the correct course of action.

Nixouf #51 Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:24 PM

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View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Or the other tanks which allowed the players to get 53% WR needs nerf

Yes obviously, and those tanks would also have a WR/GWR difference so it is the same. Correcting that difference (for every tank) is correcting the whole game balance. Once all tanks have similar WR/GWR close to 1, very good balance is achieved.


View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Based on that number alone you cannot make judgement which is the correct course of action.

Yes you can. And actually they do. At least officially, Overlord stated that they based themselves on those kind of stats to balance. I would add a little nuance by saying that they also base themselves on how much people cries on forums otherwise you wouldn't have some premium tanks being nerfed, and not others. And some tiers being more often corrected than others (high tiers compared with low tiers)

sharpneli #52 Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:32 PM

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View PostNixouf, on 19 April 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Yes you can. And actually they do. At least officially, Overlord stated that they based themselves on those kind of stats to balance. I would add a little nuance by saying that they also base themselves on how much people cries on forums otherwise you wouldn't have some premium tanks being nerfed, and not others.

They have stated that the tanks are balanced by their WR and avg exp/creds. Nothing about balancing the WR of the tank by WR of the players playing it, especially as most players do not have more than one or two lines of tanks this would become self referential balancing (e.g you play only tank tree X, tank tree X has bad tanks so your WR is low. But then it's balanced because your global WR is the same as the tank tree WR (which is kinda stupid as in that case your WR is exactly the same as the WR of the tanks)).

In addition no premium tank has been nerfed ever (MM change can also be seen as buff, as there are more juicy targets on field, personally I prefer the current MM of type). I've had all T8 prems since the day they were released and I have not noticed any 'ninja nerfs' in them.

Nixouf #53 Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:44 PM

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View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

They have stated that the tanks are balanced by their WR and avg exp/creds. Nothing about balancing the WR of the tank by WR of the players playing it, especially as most players do not have more than one or two lines of tanks this would become self referential balancing (e.g you play only tank tree X, tank tree X has bad tanks so your WR is low. But then it's balanced because your global WR is the same as the tank tree WR (which is kinda stupid as in that case your WR is exactly the same as the WR of the tanks)).

The most stupid would be in that case, if they just look at WR (which i doubt really), to "balance" a tank two weeks after its release. Because its obvious most of its owners would be the most free-XP and experienced hardcore players, and it is obvious every new tank would need a nerf. Also because there is always a small gap between the time most people knows the weak spots of a new tank/learns to counter it.


View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

In addition no premium tank has been nerfed ever (MM change can also be seen as buff, as there are more juicy targets on field, personally I prefer the current MM of type).

You can consider more juicy, i can consider that a MAUS is a juicy target for an Amx 12t, the truth is that its win ratio will drop so it is an actual nerf although not the fairest one.


View Postsharpneli, on 19 April 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I've had all T8 prems since the day they were released and I have not noticed any 'ninja nerfs' in them.


When new game mechanics like spaced armor, and gun modifications are implemented, premium tanks are buffed/nerfed DE FACTO.

mamlas #54 Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:59 PM

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View PostSergeantPunch, on 19 April 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

I killed one with my patton 1 v 1, nuff said.

But of course this tank isn't ruski! so it's ok to nerf it lol, I guess if russians couldn't dominate the battlefield they can dominate this little game to make themselves feel better :Smile_honoring:

Oh buddy, i wish you were right. While batchat wins the "biggest nerf in history" section, there is another winner. And thats the T-54 for "most consecutive nerfs ever". I cant remember patch, where it has not been nerfed in some way.

Silu_0 #55 Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:04 PM

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Im the owner of Batchat since 2 days and after a two month break from the French tanks, autoloders and meds in general. Beginnings were a little rough but I relearnt some amx's 13/75-90 skills and I can say that this little bastard is great. It's an amx 13/90 on illegal Russian ultraroids with similar matchmaking.

There is a shitload of whining about batchats/lorries and others being useless after the nerfbat, so I was a little anxious about getting it. But I'm having a blast. I can only imagine how absurdly OP it was before, if the nerf was really that drastic and they were "so much better".

I'm still mastering the tank, still improving, but so far I'm more than pleased by what this baby can do.

ijskast #56 Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:37 PM

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if you platoon 3 of these you'll own the battlefield

InYourBallz #57 Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:09 PM

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I bought my Bat chat today and what can i say?
On a game with revolver reload (6 shells) 3 no damage shoots on a Panther, and another 3 in a T34, i am disapointed with the tank, a bit because of no dmg's, but (...) tank is weak.

del500806504 #58 Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:36 AM

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no it's not if you play it right

mamlas #59 Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:05 AM

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Under correct conditions its great(platoon, CW or well coordinated team), under some its good(open map, lots of arty, platoon or good teammates). and its pain in the ass in the rest.

3 batchat platoon for the win.

Convict411 #60 Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:04 PM

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View PostMax_Manus, on 18 April 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

To be honest the only thing I would want back(this goes for all the french autoloaders tbh) is the gun depression they had.

yup i don't really care about all the other crap they nerfed but i want my gun depression back.




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