Jump to content


Military Parade....Is it appropriate?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
98 replies to this topic

Darkjudge #1 Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:12 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 4139 battles
  • 62
  • Member since:
    11-17-2011

*
POPULAR

First let's cut the pretence. Calling it a Military Parade to celebrate the end of the Second World War is dressing things up a bit. This is May Day by another name.

Until the fall of the Soviet Union, this was a propaganda event that started out as a celebration of defeating the Nazis but morphed into a terrifying showpiece of Soviet military hardware designed partly as bread and circuses for Soviet citizens whose lives were blighted to pay for this hardware and partly as a way to flip the finger to the West and demonstrate how powerful the Soviet Union was militarily. Is was designed to scare us in the West into letting the Soviets do what they wanted, which was to conquer the world in a communist brotherhood.

Since the collapse of that evil regime it became clear that for many years the Soviet Military was little more than a paper tiger (though Afghanistan has already shown it's limitations) but at the time it presented the world with a vision of an aggressive, arrogant, nuclear armed totalitarian regime at its worst.

World of Tanks has to do a tricky job dancing around the fact that 2/3s of the vehicles available were the result of engineering feats from the two most evil regimes the world has even known (3 if you include the Type 59 made by China), responsible for the needless deaths of what is estimated at between 40 and 60 million people, in many cases their own citizens.

A lot of people don't get the distinction as is seen in the weekly banning lists where people don't seem to understand why calling your clan 'SS Das Reich Division' or some such (I've picked a fairly neutral one, most are far worst) is not only grossly offensive, but in many cases illegal in a lot of European countries.

However, most people can distinguish between a tank designed and / or built by the Nazi or Soviet regime and what that regime stood for. But I think having what is in fact a 'May Day' parade celebration is cutting fairly close to the wind, particularly as one English translation of the words to describe the re-establishment of the May Day parade by Vladimir Putin is 'Military Parade' and he has been quite candid in stating that he brought it back partly to acknowledge the debt owed by Russia to the USSR.

Perhaps 'Military Parade' plays well on the Russian server but we in Europe should necessarily be dubious about WG asking us to celebrate an event so closely identified with the Soviet Union, given the tens of millions killed, imprisoned or forcefully resettled by that evil, viscious regime. This is not a rant against Russia or Russians, this is against the Soviet Union and the communist regime that so devestated Russia, Central Asia and Eastern Europe.

Possibly WG have handled it well enough and I'm over-reacting, but I would think some of our Polish, Czech, Baltic and other Eastern European colleagues would be pretty pissed off to celebrate the enslavement of their countries which occured at the end of WW2. Perhaps it is because I'm older and grew up in the shadow of the Cold War and the attrocities committed by Stalin and his successors, but it is only just 23 years since the Berlin Wall fell so I think it is too soon to brush off such evil just because this is a game.

WG - if you want to do an end of WW2 event, don't call it Military Parade, call it VE day or something similar. And if you want a Military Parade event, don't do it in May or near any other communist anniversaries.

I don't plan this post to be a big deal, I'm not rage quitting or doing anything more than posting, and I'm not going to join in any discussion.

I just wanted WG to be aware I think this particular event is not appropriate.

EDIT: Some people missed a couple of key comments, which is fair enough as I wrote a wall of text. My issue is not that people celebrate the end of the Second World War or that Russia has the right to celebrate and mourn the soldiers that died defeating the Nazis. I am a former army officer and I take great pride in what my country and the other good guys did in WW2 so I would never diminish the sacrifice.

It is that this celebration morphed during the 50s and early 60s into a propaganda event directed by the decrepit leadership of an evil totalitarian regime. The very words 'Military Parade' is a rough English translation of what the Soviets called the event and as I mentioned, Putin - fresh from destroying democracy in his country and stealing elections, has specifically used the same words for the annual end of WW2 celebration and linked it to the country's Soviet past. Using the word 'Military Parade' brings so much baggage that I didn't think it was appropriate is all.

What I was suggesting is that they find a different term for this event, not that we not celebrate it.

I do wonder at some of the responses though. I never said that the US was good or the West is blameless in anything, it wasn't a contest to see which regime was better than any other. However, if anyone on here seriously thinks the Soviet Union and the enslavement of Eastern Europe and the Baltic was anything but a scar of evil on the world from 1917-1989 that should never be celebrated, then I think a visit to the library and some research is needed. Only Mao's China from the 50s to the 70s, North Korea since its founding, Cambodia in the 70s or Ghengis Kahn's rape of Central Asia and China can rival the misery and deaths per head of population that the Soviet Union caused. Even the deaths caused by the Nazis (admittedly in a shorter timeframe) pale compared to what the Soviets did.


Thread moved to more appropriate section of the forums since it has nothing to do with gameplay discussions.

---Orree

Edited by Darkjudge, 08 May 2012 - 12:46 AM.


KomissarBojanchev #2 Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:19 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 6573 battles
  • 94
  • Member since:
    11-28-2011
Just because WG wants to celbrate the victory in WW2 doesnt mean that it is procommunist. Also FYI who was under conrol of all those eastern european countrie you mentioned before 1945?

Kauhava #3 Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:37 AM

    Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 5507 battles
  • 275
  • Member since:
    07-10-2010
Who the hell cares.

Also:

View PostDarkjudge, on 07 May 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

so I think it is too soon to brush off such evil just because this is a game.

Oh boy, "evil".

Homer_J #4 Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:42 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 28132 battles
  • 29,450
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010
Some people think too much.

Fum #5 Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:47 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 9733 battles
  • 1,323
  • [FAIL] FAIL
  • Member since:
    07-15-2010
He does have a point, but most people prefer to be ignorant and just are happy to get cheaper tanks :P

LOVE_U_LONGTIME #6 Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:53 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 27599 battles
  • 756
  • Member since:
    03-02-2011
So what, its a bank holiday! Day off work and paid :lol:

Ammattilainen #7 Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:54 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Clan Commander
  • 7954 battles
  • 538
  • [EVVK] EVVK
  • Member since:
    08-09-2011
You have a point in all that, but why post in gameplay discussion - if anything this is offtopic..

rambi #8 Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:59 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 46084 battles
  • 246
  • [WHO] WHO
  • Member since:
    09-25-2011
damm it's just a game and we get some extra for playing so who cares what name it is.

get a life and write a book

NorrisKakkonen #9 Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:06 AM

    Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 30096 battles
  • 209
  • Member since:
    12-04-2010
For me it has been very clear for a long time now that WG wants to establish Soviet Union again at least in their game. Maybe it's because they shame their country's history.

ChristopherHitchens #10 Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:12 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 19415 battles
  • 116
  • [S3AL] S3AL
  • Member since:
    02-29-2012
The Soviet Union and the ideology that it spread over eastern Europe is just as bad as Nazi Germany and nazism. At least one war ended...

Sleekit #11 Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:27 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 6166 battles
  • 2
  • Member since:
    09-03-2011
im very probably way older than the OP and could hardly care less.

neither the tanks, nor the people who designed, built or drove them were or are "evil" and "May Day" fyi is actually a pre Christain festival that was later adopted by the international labour movement and has nothing to do with communism explicitly nor is "communism" explicitly "evil" nor can Russians entirely dissociate themselves from the history of the USSR as you seem to infer any more than Britains can entirely dissassociate themsleves from "The British Empire" or "The Protectorate". its their history. if they want to have a nationalistic flag waving parade because they (as the USSR) "won" that part of WW2 its completely fine by me.

this in game event celebrates the end of the war culminating on May 8th (when supposed patch 7.3 will be released) and the fact you want to read a whole load of sanctimonious crap into mr OP is...just crap. plain and simple "everybody has one" arseholicly emanated crap.

and while that might be fine in some spots on the internet gaming forums are not the place amaturish and hyperbole laden poltical dissections of history and i really don't care what bee you think is in your bonnet.

if you like the game play it. if not gtf. really. vote with your feet and wallet like the consumerist that you actually are.

because ultimately this forum is here for disscussing a video game not as a place for you to deliver your personal world view to the supposedly ignorant huddled masses and personally i no more wish to read crap like this than i do a polemic from stormfront.

its just the another side of the same tired old coin.

the cold war is over. part of the reason its over is because we discovered the Russians were not in fact the monstrous boogie man of our own propoganda and i really don't need someone who claims to have lived through that period (which btw i don't believe for a moment) trying to tell me they are...

ZeZergling #12 Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:12 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 313
  • Member since:
    10-03-2011

View PostSleekit, on 07 May 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

i really don't need someone who claims to have lived through that period (which btw i don't believe for a moment) trying to tell me they are...

Nice ad hominem!


FYI everyone, the OP does have a point; Military Parade's on this date were about glorifying the Soviet Union. And that is NOT a good thing.

Edited by ZeZergling, 07 May 2012 - 07:15 AM.


Szalona #13 Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:37 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 12906 battles
  • 1,159
  • [1PADS] 1PADS
  • Member since:
    04-08-2010
I think you are to much picky about this.

Sleekit #14 Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:47 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 6166 battles
  • 2
  • Member since:
    09-03-2011

View PostZeZergling, on 07 May 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

Nice ad hominem!
the entire post is a "please just shut up and go away" post. the fact you've picked up being able to recognize an "ad hominem" on your travels means very little. what do you want ? a cookie ? its pretty obvious im hosile to the OPs orginal comment and him for posting it. your supposed insight into the use of retorical logic reveals the grand total of bugger all.

View PostZeZergling, on 07 May 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

FYI everyone, the OP does have a point; Military Parade's on this date were about glorifying the Soviet Union. And that is NOT a good thing.
the fighting men and women of the USSR basically won the war. modern Russians, as their decendants, have every right to celibrate that fact.

sorry to be the one to point this out but you don't get to pick and choose history nor can any nation wipe any out for the sake of overly delicate sensiblitys nor should they ever be able to. just as Britain has the legacy of "empire" so Russia has the legacy of the USSR and just like "empire" it wasn't actually all blanket bad or "evil".

very little, outside the simplistic minds of children or the unthinking, ever is.

and ye there's another one.

still no cookie.

WasntMe #15 Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:49 AM

    Corporal

  • Beta Tester
  • 2744 battles
  • 183
  • [HB] HB
  • Member since:
    01-19-2011
Eastern European  peep here, and the military parade is one most awesome things to watch(Cuz after we entered NATO and they cut our army, our own military parade that was yesterday is shitty). And I dont get what the big deal is and what's the point of the wall of text? It's a day to comemorate the people that died in WWII(and the veterans) and its probably the biggest non-relegious holiday in Russia.

P.S the Usa people over at their forum are taking it okay, and everyone is happy and doesnt care for the name of the event.

Edited by WasntMe, 07 May 2012 - 07:54 AM.


Szturmi #16 Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:57 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 5006 battles
  • 1,356
  • [HIS] HIS
  • Member since:
    07-02-2010
1. I think you are overreacting and I am from one of "enslaved" countries.
2. SS was declared illegal and criminal by international court.
3. Military parades are organized in many other countries. A few days ago have seen one in Poland.
http://youtu.be/uwcg4DLsuGI
4. Illustration for event shows also US and French tanks.
5. And in 65-th anniversary of the end of the WWII (in 2010) Polish soldiers were parading in Moscow just after Russian ones and before US, British and French. Poles were parading there also in 1945.

Edited by Szturmi, 07 May 2012 - 11:19 AM.


Clintbet #17 Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:06 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 3765 battles
  • 17
  • [NSL] NSL
  • Member since:
    04-16-2011
I actually agree.

View PostSleekit, on 07 May 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

the fighting men and women of the USSR basically won the war.

If it isn't a revolution, i dont think any "people" has won a large war like ww2.

Grothgar #18 Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:13 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 32734 battles
  • 406
  • [EPIC] EPIC
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011
It`s a parade celebrating victory in WW2.
Everything else you say has nothing to do with the parade and the victory in the ww2. I`am from Bulgaria and i`am not at all too happy about the fact that my county was behind the Iron Curtain, but you gotta give em credit - they won the war so they deserve to have a parade.
Pretty much the same thing goes to country and politics - you have the right to have them but what you decide to turn them into is entirely up to you.
I think that`s good to have a special for that but maybe call it "End of WW2 special" or something else.

ViktorKitov #19 Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:27 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 25303 battles
  • 1,571
  • [BG-TA] BG-TA
  • Member since:
    06-05-2011
Hello forum and welcome to World of Whiners

anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #20 Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:32 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 0 battles
  • 6,815
  • Member since:
    07-10-2018

View PostDarkjudge, on 07 May 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

First let's cut the pretence. Calling it a Military Parade to celebrate the end of the Second World War is dressing things up a bit. This is May Day by another name.

Until the fall of the Soviet Union, this was a propaganda event that started out as a celebration of defeating the Nazis but morphed into a terrifying showpiece of Soviet military hardware designed partly as bread and circuses for Soviet citizens whose lives were blighted to pay for this hardware and partly as a way to flip the finger to the West and demonstrate how powerful the Soviet Union was militarily. Is was designed to scare us in the West into letting the Soviets do what they wanted, which was to conquer the world in a communist brotherhood.

Since the collapse of that evil regime it became clear that for many years the Soviet Military was little more than a paper tiger (though Afghanistan has already shown it's limitations) but at the time it presented the world with a vision of an aggressive, arrogant, nuclear armed totalitarian regime at its worst.

World of Tanks has to do a tricky job dancing around the fact that 2/3s of the vehicles available were the result of engineering feats from the two most evil regimes the world has even known (3 if you include the Type 59 made by China), responsible for the needless deaths of what is estimated at between 40 and 60 million people, in many cases their own citizens.

A lot of people don't get the distinction as is seen in the weekly banning lists where people don't seem to understand why calling your clan 'SS Das Reich Division' or some such (I've picked a fairly neutral one, most are far worst) is not only grossly offensive, but in many cases illegal in a lot of European countries.

However, most people can distinguish between a tank designed and / or built by the Nazi or Soviet regime and what that regime stood for. But I think having what is in fact a 'May Day' parade celebration is cutting fairly close to the wind, particularly as one English translation of the words to describe the re-establishment of the May Day parade by Vladimir Putin is 'Military Parade' and he has been quite candid in stating that he brought it back partly to acknowledge the debt owed by Russia to the USSR.

Perhaps 'Military Parade' plays well on the Russian server but we in Europe should necessarily be dubious about WG asking us to celebrate an event so closely identified with the Soviet Union, given the tens of millions killed, imprisoned or forcefully resettled by that evil, viscious regime. This is not a rant against Russia or Russians, this is against the Soviet Union and the communist regime that so devestated Russia, Central Asia and Eastern Europe.

Possibly WG have handled it well enough and I'm over-reacting, but I would think some of our Polish, Czech, Baltic and other Eastern European colleagues would be pretty pissed off to celebrate the enslavement of their countries which occured at the end of WW2. Perhaps it is because I'm older and grew up in the shadow of the Cold War and the attrocities committed by Stalin and his successors, but it is only just 23 years since the Berlin Wall fell so I think it is too soon to brush off such evil just because this is a game.

WG - if you want to do an end of WW2 event, don't call it Military Parade, call it VE day or something similar. And if you want a Military Parade event, don't do it in May or near any other communist anniversaries.

I don't plan this post to be a big deal, I'm not rage quitting or doing anything more than posting, and I'm not going to join in any discussion.

I just wanted WG to be aware I think this particular event is not appropriate.


Nope.avi...


I am Dutch, and in the Netherlands we have 2 days. 4th of may is our "Remembrance day" on which we remember our casualties (also casualties of peacekeeper missions etc. moder victims) and on the 5th of may we have our "Liberation Day" (with a parade which is still visited by many international veterans who fought for my country).

So it is not strictly a Russian thing (and no, Netherlands was never a part of PACT...)


P.S. The ONLY evil nuclear country in the world is the U.S.A.
They used 2...

Edited by Costarring, 07 May 2012 - 08:34 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users