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With the Return of the Type's™, and old question has come back to life:

Are Type 59's Overpowered?

Particularly organized groups of them?


What do you think?




After you voted, you can check here to see what I think:


And below you can find out why (or you can just skip reading and post something anyway). It's up to you:








The test:

Tonight's game proved to be a quite good test at just how powerful Type's really are. (http://forum.worldof...pes-vs-t8-meds/).

If a platoon of 3 Types is overpowered, what about a team with 12 of them?


This was played for fun, more or less random teams, no preparations: Conditions the Type's usually are superb at.

I must say I was a little surprised about the result. Like you can see one player typing in the chat, "I guess this settles it":




Analysis:

Of the six games played against teams consisting only of Type 59's, it was quite clear:

They are weaker than normal T8 mediums. They won one out of six games.

This proved itself several times during the games, most notably when the normal tanks rushed the Types and just ran over them.

Thus a platoon of, for example, Panther II's or Pershing's would be far more dangerous than a platoon of Types.

The one game won by the Types was when they set a trap, managed to surprise the normal tanks, separate them and pick them off while outnumbering them. At all other times the Normals were simply better.



Conclusion:

Obviously a platoon of Types is dangerous, especially towards tanks of lower tiers (a Tier 5 tank can't scratch them!).

But they are not as dangerous as a platoon of Normal T8 tanks would be!

Thus the problem is not with the Types, but with the matchmaking and useless team-mates!

Moved to in-game vehicles section
/Berbo
Edited by Berbo, 12 May 2012 - 04:55 PM.

Mate, they were OP and then the speed and armour got nerfed. If anything they are a bit underpowered now.

It is a pity you didn't drive one before they took them out of the shop, they were a monster then. I won't say they are rubbish now but I don't think you can claim they are too strong.

Of course in a group they are unstoppable, but you will find in this game that any pack of mediums is unstoppable, the trick is getting 2 or 3 people in a random to support you.

 Darkjudge, on 12 May 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

How do you know I didn't?

 Darkjudge, on 12 May 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

I'm not. Did you even read the post?

 Darkjudge, on 12 May 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

"Unstoppable". You didn't look at the screens either...

Which tank isnt strong in pack ?

Type has kinda strong armor for tier 8 med , gun sucks with weak avg penetration , loooooong aiming time , accuracy below average , this tank is best for close combat , in my opinion armor is OP for tier 8 medium , also strong turret which is also huge advantage , for me frontal hull armor needs debuff from 100 to 90 , to same value as T-44 , Turret can be same as it is now , because need at least any advantage over T-44 . And you Chinese dont rain me with negative rep

 Darkjudge, on 12 May 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

I'd be so mad if they ever did such a thing to my Type.

 matthew123456, on 12 May 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

This could very well be a good "nerf". Would hurt the noobs, wouldn't hurt the players that play the Type like a normal medium tank.

 Darkjudge, on 12 May 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

Are you sure that Type were underpowered?
Im asking because there was a written insurance that "bought units, will be not modified" before they took them out of the store.
"I bought a black panther and suddenly, in the shadows, somebody changed something and now I have a cat... ?"
Woul be nice to know.
Txs in advance.

S!

 matthew123456, on 12 May 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

While I respect that opinion, please see the screens in my post.

12 Type 59's got trashed in close combat by a mix of 12 Panther II's and Pershings.

They are definitely not overpowered. The problem is that the MM tend to stack them in packs ( 3-4 ) very offten .I rarely see 3-4 panthers, t 44's, t 20's and so on. But seems like the MM works different for T 59's.

 deamy, on 12 May 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

You know , in this case is everything about players , type 59 has better armor than Panther II and pershing also , and small siluette also , for me is type hardest tier 8 med to kill , no matter its accuracy and damage , i think its resistance to damage .

And about 12 types vs 12 mix of PII and Pershing ,,, think reason is , guys with types had more targets and guys with PIIs and Pershings focused 1 target by 1 target or just step by step .
Edited by matthew123456, 12 May 2012 - 01:35 AM.

From what I see in the screenshot you guys basically camped and they rushed you which is proven to be not a very effective tactic on this map if you're the rusher. Nonetheless the Type 59 is overpowered mostly only when fighting lower tier enemies which it does very often, besides, front armor of that thing is way tougher than front armor of a normal tier 8 medium tank. That's it's only advantage, and it's a very big one.

In fact I meat every Type in tier 8+ tank but since I usually stick to lower tier tanks an overlood of these things from hell is always a bad thing. Everytime I am a tier 7 or lower the game always throws these things from hell at me, especially in packs so they can simply puff me out of the battle. Always.
Edited by Grabarz19_PL, 12 May 2012 - 01:40 AM.

they were very strong at start, now we learned were to aim


just for reference, i landed the shot with a kv3
Edited by Sirianstar, 12 May 2012 - 01:41 AM.

 matthew123456, on 12 May 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

Then it's slower, have less HP, climb rate, worse accuracy, worse damage, worse gun traverse and usually much worse drivers

See the main thread, replays can be found there. Both teams were, as far as I could tell, focusing on single targets about as much.

 Grabarz19_PL, on 12 May 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

You can see the replays in the main thread as well. Some camped in the first game (others rushed in), but we also rushed them on three of the other games (and won two of them). Range or close combat didn't really matter: It was more even up close, but the Type's lost that as well.

As most players in randoms are less-talented-players driving their Type's sideways, they aren't using the advantage anyway

 Sirianstar, on 12 May 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

Nice, did that with a StuG once
Edited by deamy, 12 May 2012 - 01:46 AM.

 deamy, on 12 May 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

Not exactly in the mood right now to open the game, might check tommorow.

The whole OPness of a Type 59 comes exactly from the place as it's simply a noob bashing tank which causes sudden trouble everywhere it goes. It can be taken down, it's simply a pain to meet it in a worse tank, or even in a tier 8 tank with awful low penetration guns which love to bounce out of that ridiculous front armor through which no low tier ever goes that's why they have such a huge problem with them.

And I voted yes but not because of the tank itself but of the way matchmaker puts it. Usually in packs, and usually in tier 7-6 matches where I tend to be in.
Edited by Grabarz19_PL, 12 May 2012 - 01:47 AM.

I think they're OK post-nerf, before they were horrible but I think that was for two big reasons: ALOT of people got one and the rest of us didn't know how to fight them properly...so we bitched! Met 5 one one team tonight, we came out on top.

its way to hard to penetrate them in long range combat
Edited by nascarm2008, 12 May 2012 - 01:51 AM.

I dont want them to comeback because skilles players play in them and ruin all the fun !!!

The reason why many people dont like 2-4 typs in the enemy team is that the typs frontarmor is very hard to penetrate for the most tier 6 and some tier 7 tanks. pershing, panther2, t44 all have got frontarmor weakspots(for example t44 turret, panther2 lowerplates, pershing frontarmor), that are penetratable for tier 6-7,sometimes even for tier 5 tanks.  i dont wonder that a team of typs is losing against a team of pershing, panther2 and t44 team, cause they can penetrate the frontarmor of the typ, while the typ has got an weak gun(175mm penetration) that bounce often on their frontarmor.

Indy

 matthew123456, on 12 May 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

Here's a tip foreverybody; concentrate your fire!

If you, all alone, get an enemy to 1%, he can shoot back, if two of you kill him, that's one less gun pointing at you...it's nothing new, just basic tactics.

Had to vote "No", there wasn't a "Sort of, maybe a little bit sometimes" option

Type is not OP as such, sure it's hard to pen from the front for smaller tanks, and it's relatively fast and agile, but these things can be overcome.

What does make the Type OP is not the tank itself, but the nature of being a tier 8 premium that is fun to drive... it's fairly common, even more so now it's just gone back on sale last week, and you're more likely to see packs of them in games.

Any fast tank is going to be a pain in the arse in a pack, and people often platoon them together to insure this. But like I said, it's not the tank, it's the commonality of the tank. Imagine packs of panther2's or pershings in every game, they'd be just as bad, probably worse.

The type has only better frontal turret armor as the other T8 meds. For the rest all mods are average.

Usa: faster and better gun depression and more accurat.
German: best T8 gun and verry accurate, P2 is heavy and can be used as stormram. Tank got 1450 hp
Ussr: fast and verry agile compared to the other T8, gun is decent.

Ofc all modules Unlocked.