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mazer, on 11 July 2010 - 07:23 PM, said:

You are ignoring the fact that the cannons are for the most part exactly the same.

Mazer: I "love" how you state just the tiers where there is gun difference and totally avoid those with same cannon to make your point.
I also think most people here actualy know how to play TD, understand its different role and accept it. Check the posts again, I don't say TDs are useless, not fun or so. I think is that they should have a little more edge over tanks in what they are designed to do.

Silver_Falcon, on 11 July 2010 - 07:58 PM, said:

Exactly.

Wyvernrider, on 11 July 2010 - 07:26 PM, said:

Some are similar....of course, but they are a bit different and enough to make a difference, in your example for example the 88 on the Jgdpz IV shoots a little faster, zero's in a little faster, plus you are ignoring the built in advantages a TD has when stationary and in cover. Both guns will do the job....tank is more flexible....you just need to decide how you want to play...and get the vehicle that works the best for you....and they aren't always the top tier vehicle.

Silver_Falcon, on 11 July 2010 - 07:58 PM, said:

No sir, I will take any tank vs TD you choose and explain the difference if it is necessary....I just took the Marder as an example because most TD drivers will have hit at least that side....

And don't say we don't know our roles...

TD are not spoter and are not lonely killers,so is normal that when they finaly reveal the enemy maybe be too late..


some TD should have more firepower i agree but not all of them!Ferdinand and su 152 have MUCH power.


and the problems with penetration is really because of the new hit box model,now is normal even a king tiger bounce off two shots in a panzer III.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about.  TDs are fine and balanced.  If you charge at a tank you will die.  That's a fact.  Now knowing that how would you effectively use a TD?  Sit in a bush and let other people spot things for you while you pick them off?  Yeah, that's the idea.

Darth_Conrad, on 11 July 2010 - 08:58 PM, said:

You are still missing the argument. A medium tank can do this and perform just as well. They have the same cannons! Sometimes even more accurate!

Wyvernrider, on 11 July 2010 - 09:11 PM, said:

And you're missing the point.  A medium tank does not have a bonus to cover.  It also does not have the same fire rate and is not more accurate.  If you give me a tank and a TD with the same gun and same crew level I will take out the medium tank from RANGE with the TD.

Edited to avoid confusion.

Darth_Conrad, on 11 July 2010 - 09:14 PM, said:

The differences only appear tier 7 and even then they are very slight. The Panther cannon is actually more accurate than the Ferdinand's. Also, I am not even sure if this "boost to spotting" covers the lowered spotting range a TD has. I will often be in a bush and won't see an approaching medium tank unless someone else spots it unless it is right on me.

Wyvernrider, on 11 July 2010 - 09:24 PM, said:

The fact is that I played in the Russian Closed beta and do know and am telling you how it is.  It's fine that you keep giving my posts a -1 but that won't change what I'm telling you.

Darth_Conrad, on 11 July 2010 - 09:33 PM, said:

if what you say is true(they actually get a bonus to stay hidden from farther range), that doesn't matter because the td is not on the front lines so viewing range means nothing. all that matters is radio from your spotters. the td is gimped, face it.

a tank can sit in the back and snipe off of spotters just as well while also having a turret to kill flankers. they don't because they can actuallly move up and do some damage. the td stays back because they are gimped, not because they are good at it.

otirruborez, on 11 July 2010 - 09:41 PM, said:

Now that's an opinion and one worth having a discussion about.  My opinion is different though.  The TD is an amazing weapon at range that allows me to reach out and make some rather amazing shots that I simply could not at the same range with my medium tanks.  Sure with my medium tank I could get in there and mix it up with people but it's set up different.  It's true that TDs aren't the best assualt weapons out there and that has been proven.  They are however very good defensive weapons and again good snipers.  It's all in how you play the game and who you play with.  Believe me in later tiers TDs do just fine and the Tankbusters can back me up on that one.

I can say for sure that TD's don't get a bonus to spotting as far as tier 2-3 are concern, unless there's an open plain in front of me i won't spot anything this has happened to me many time on the open map with the railroad in the bush lines along the road and railroad, at one point i had a tank literary crash into me head on and i didn't see it until it was 5m in front of me.
  
Also you know a TD has issues when a PZ4 can have a shooting fight with a PzJager 4 and the Pz wins with plenty of hp left (and i don't mean the Pz4 moved they both stood face to face and unloaded shells in each other). Are you sure your remembering all of your russian beta xp, or just the upper tiers?
It seems that the TD only comes into it's roll when fighting vehicles of 1-2 tiers bellow, i've started getting 1-2 shooted and sniped in my pz3 lately because PzJg 4 are starting to appear in my battles.

Palora, on 11 July 2010 - 10:12 PM, said:

TDs aren't meant to stand up to  medium or heavy tanks in a toe to toe fight.  A TD is a sniper.  A ranged fighter.  When you take your advantage away what do you expect to happen?  It's like taking the speed away from a light tank.  I admit I've had some trouble with Pz IVs and KV-1s but this is a team based game.  Your kill count isn't everything aferall.

Oh and let me add that spotting is kinda shady.  But if they are under cover too it is harder to spot them so that could be an issue.  My only suggestion is to wait them out.  Moving can give away your position.  Don't be afraid of being called a camper either.  This game has two current objectives!  You're just on defense!  

Darth_Conrad, on 11 July 2010 - 10:10 PM, said:

Check accuracy ratings of the cannons. A large portion of medium tanks have accuracy deviations equal to the TD.

Wyvernrider, on 11 July 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

While the guns look the same on paper they act differently when installed on a tank or a TD.  You'll notice a difference for instance in how the PaK39 L/48 react when you upgrade from the Hetzer to the STuG III.

Darth_Conrad, on 11 July 2010 - 11:03 PM, said:

If all of this is true, it would be nice if these ratings were reflected game more accurately.

Wyvernrider, on 11 July 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

maybe because they need to shoot and move?


TD don't have better chance to spot!they have a little less chance to be spoted,medium tanks are medium tanks they can do a little of all,any tank cam simply stay back shoot people in long ranges but imagine if all people do that who will be spoting in the front?if everybody don't perform they hole this is  a lack of team work.