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JacobusRex #41 Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:02 PM

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I read that 59KM/h isn't the actual max speed that all of them do, it's just the requirement. Some can do better?

The_Challenger #42 Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:04 PM

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View PostHelskga, on 11 June 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

I read that 59KM/h isn't the actual max speed that all of them do, it's just the requirement. Some can do better?

Absolutely, like I said various figures quoted and we have got a lot better on a decent road . :Smile_Default:

Chrono_Ivan #43 Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:23 PM

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How useful is HESH against a modern tank?

The_Challenger #44 Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:43 PM

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View PostVrenshrg, on 11 June 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

How useful is HESH against a modern tank?

Hi,

HESH is not really designed as an anti armour round and would have little effect against ERA, Laminated etc etc armour.

It may damage optics and sights but that's about it. But incredibly effective against soft skinned vehicles, troops, dug in positions for example.

As a default setting a KE would be loaded at all times.

Hope this helps :Smile_Default:

Edited by The_Challenger, 11 June 2012 - 02:44 PM.


TStick #45 Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:07 AM

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I've saw a doc. on the History channel, it's was about the engagement between a Lynx tankkiller Heli squad, and a Iraqi T72 during the first gulf war. Apperantly the T72 fired airburst shells at the Lynx, trying to shoot it down. I did not knew such shells existed....do NATO MBT's pack such rounds as well ?

The_Challenger #46 Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:17 PM

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View PostTStick, on 12 June 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I've saw a doc. on the History channel, it's was about the engagement between a Lynx tankkiller Heli squad, and a Iraqi T72 during the first gulf war. Apperantly the T72 fired airburst shells at the Lynx, trying to shoot it down. I did not knew such shells existed....do NATO MBT's pack such rounds as well ?

Hi,

Airburst shells have been around for a long time, to simply it it just means that the fuze can be timed  to detonate, great for mass effect, especially against infantry, but useless against armour as they simply do nort posses the penetrative power required. A hand grenade could be referred to as an "airburst" weapon.

Perhaps the most well known MBT capable is the XM1028 which is a 120mm round that contains over 1000 tungsten balls, designed to replace the "flechette"

As you can imagine devastaing against Infantry, referred to quite aptly as the "Shotgun" round.

        

So the ability is there but not used by all, the Germans Puma and Swedens CV90 for example can both fire airburst roads.

Hope this helps :Smile_Default:

Take Care

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Edited by The_Challenger, 12 June 2012 - 02:21 PM.


The_Challenger #47 Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:45 PM

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Tankfest "Black Prince" Update

For those attending :Smile_Default:


Having just spoke with the Tank Museum in Bovington they have the "Black Prince" running but are currently working on a seized turret !!

So fingers Crossed :Smile_Default:

http://www.tankmuseum.org/

moogled #48 Posted 13 June 2012 - 09:52 AM

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Hi. I am interested in the beginning's of the 'Modern battle tank.' Yes could say the renault FT. Which (when design flaws cooling etc) were ironed out was as I believe the 1st tank with 'rotating turret.'
What am more interested in tho is the British 'Mark A Whippet.' Especially named Tank - Musical Box-
I have been trying to find crew names for said tank. I have history of tank (8 August 1918.) The Tank fought for nine hours, inflicting heavy casualties. Until stopped by a shell, where one crew was killed while exiting tank, the other 2 captured.

If anyone can help me with said crew names I will be grateful.

Thank you in advance. :Smile_smile:


http://upload.wikime.../bf/Whippet.jpg

http://armourfan.web...A_Whippet_1.jpg

Edited by moogled, 13 June 2012 - 09:57 AM.


Tigger3 #49 Posted 13 June 2012 - 03:44 PM

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View Postmoogled, on 13 June 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Hi. I am interested in the beginning's of the 'Modern battle tank.' Yes could say the renault FT. Which (when design flaws cooling etc) were ironed out was as I believe the 1st tank with 'rotating turret.'
What am more interested in tho is the British 'Mark A Whippet.' Especially named Tank - Musical Box-
I have been trying to find crew names for said tank. I have history of tank (8 August 1918.) The Tank fought for nine hours, inflicting heavy casualties. Until stopped by a shell, where one crew was killed while exiting tank, the other 2 captured.

If anyone can help me with said crew names I will be grateful.

Thank you in advance. :Smile_smile:


http://upload.wikime.../bf/Whippet.jpg

http://armourfan.web...A_Whippet_1.jpg


From the book "Fighting Tanks – An account of The Royal Tank Corps in action 1916-1919", published in 1929 and edited by G. Murray Wilson.

Commander Lieutenant Arnold, Gunner Ribbans and Driver Carney

Reproduced in part here

http://www.landships...musical_box.htm

GoldMountain #50 Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:14 AM

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I heard for tier 10, the likely candidate for the tier 10 medium is the FV4202 "40 Ton Centurion" (According to Serb)
Lighter (40 tonnes)
Shorter (5 Road Wheels vs 6)
Faster (40-50kph?)
Smaller Profile
better Armour Sloping...

One is supposedly at Bovington tank museum... I Don't suppose you could have a looksie for it when your down there challenger?

View PostThe_Challenger, on 11 June 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Hi,

HESH is not really designed as an anti armour round and would have little effect against ERA, Laminated etc etc armour.

It may damage optics and sights but that's about it. But incredibly effective against soft skinned vehicles, troops, dug in positions for example.

As a default setting a KE would be loaded at all times.

Hope this helps :Smile_Default:

IIRC It was initialler designed as an anti-material round designed to punch huge holes in buildings alike. The shells have a huge concussive effect which can easily flatten most basic structures despite it's relatively small size.
It was later found out that when fired against armoured targets, the spall effects were devastating, which would viscously disable most Lightly Armoured Vehicles, by killing the crew or disabling the vehicle. But it is well known that the effects against Steel Plating is devastating.

There was an incident during the first gulf war where a blue on blue incident between two challengers which resulted in the complete destruction of one tank from a HESH round that impacted on an open commanders hatch, which in turn ignited the ammunition on board the tank. Complete luck because like chally said, the round is practically useless against modern MBT's

Seems like HESH is used against a huge variety of targets (Afew Video's on youtube of challengers firing HESH against LAV's in the gulf war) and seems to be a very versatile type of ammunition....

Edited by Celestia, 14 June 2012 - 01:33 AM.


bigmantr #51 Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:00 AM

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First of all Congrats on your own Sub Forum :Smile_Default:
In world of tanks that sets in WW2 all tanks have very weak roof and bottom armor. Thus they are easy to penetrate by Aircraft . Do modern tanks have upgraded Roofs to Counter some aircraft? :Smile_Default:  
Also I want to know If someone fires hundreds of low damage little blast RPGs to a MBT that can stand these shots one by one. Will it face anything serious? I know tracks will blow up or optics will be destroyed but can the tank blow up as well? :Smile_Default:
Like Loltracktors firing HE until they destroy Maus :Smile_popcorn1:

The_Challenger #52 Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:40 AM

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View PostCelestia, on 14 June 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

I heard for tier 10, the likely candidate for the tier 10 medium is the FV4202 "40 Ton Centurion" (According to Serb)
Lighter (40 tonnes)
Shorter (5 Road Wheels vs 6)
Faster (40-50kph?)
Smaller Profile
better Armour Sloping...

One is supposedly at Bovington tank museum... I Don't suppose you could have a looksie for it when your down there challenger?



IIRC It was initialler designed as an anti-material round designed to punch huge holes in buildings alike. The shells have a huge concussive effect which can easily flatten most basic structures despite it's relatively small size.
It was later found out that when fired against armoured targets, the spall effects were devastating, which would viscously disable most Lightly Armoured Vehicles, by killing the crew or disabling the vehicle. But it is well known that the effects against Steel Plating is devastating.

There was an incident during the first gulf war where a blue on blue incident between two challengers which resulted in the complete destruction of one tank from a HESH round that impacted on an open commanders hatch, which in turn ignited the ammunition on board the tank. Complete luck because like chally said, the round is practically useless against modern MBT's

Seems like HESH is used against a huge variety of targets (Afew Video's on youtube of challengers firing HESH against LAV's in the gulf war) and seems to be a very versatile type of ammunition....

Hi,

No problem regarding the FV4202 I am hoping to get a lot of new pictures and trawl through there archives whilst there :Smile_Default:
        

As for the HESH agreed, I didn't actually say "useless", that amount of High Explosive impacting is not a pleasant experience and as you mentioned the fluke shot, with any ammunition, is always possible. HESH rounds are much more prone to tumbling than KE rounds purely due to the weight and Velocity.

Unlike KE rounds of course it is possible to correct fire with HE, which in Iraq was extremely useful as many targets were static usually in dug in positions.

Take Care :Smile_Default:

Attached Images



The_Challenger #53 Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:51 AM

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View Postbigmantr, on 14 June 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

First of all Congrats on your own Sub Forum :Smile_Default:
In world of tanks that sets in WW2 all tanks have very weak roof and bottom armor. Thus they are easy to penetrate by Aircraft . Do modern tanks have upgraded Roofs to Counter some aircraft? :Smile_Default:  
Also I want to know If someone fires hundreds of low damage little blast RPGs to a MBT that can stand these shots one by one. Will it face anything serious? I know tracks will blow up or optics will be destroyed but can the tank blow up as well? :Smile_Default:
Like Loltracktors firing HE until they destroy Maus :Smile_popcorn1:

Hey "Bigmantr"

The turrets are not upgraded to allow or take account of arial attack, the problem would be added weight decreasing mobility etc etc.

The armour relies on of course firstly on there own aircraft and attack helicopters, plus support from surface to air missiles. At a very low  level it is possible to engage with the main armament, chain gun plus of course the GPMG !!

As for your question regarding "hundreds" of shots well the laws of probability would, I imagine, mean damage. CR2 in Iraq took a lot of RPG strikes with absolutely no damage but one shot that hits a sprocket for example would immobilize the vehicle.

Take Care :Smile_Default:

GoldMountain #54 Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:00 AM

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View PostThe_Challenger, on 14 June 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Hey "Bigmantr"

The turrets are not upgraded to allow or take account of arial attack, the problem would be added weight decreasing mobility etc etc.

The armour relies on of course firstly on there own aircraft and attack helicopters, plus support from surface to air missiles. At a very low  level it is possible to engage with the main armament, chain gun plus of course the GPMG !!

As for your question regarding "hundreds" of shots well the laws of probability would, I imagine, mean damage. CR2 in Iraq took a lot of RPG strikes with absolutely no damage but one shot that hits a sprocket for example would immobilize the vehicle.

Take Care :Smile_Default:

Aren't the Challenger II and Leopard II the few MBT's with a more heavily armoured roof? (Compared to the Abrams atleast) which provides some protection against ATGM's

Edited by Celestia, 14 June 2012 - 09:01 AM.


The_Challenger #55 Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:14 AM

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View PostCelestia, on 14 June 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

Aren't the Challenger II and Leopard II the few MBT's with a more heavily armoured roof? (Compared to the Abrams atleast) which provides some protection against ATGM's

Agreed :Smile_Default:  some have more heavily armoured turrets than other as do some have more armoured frontal armour than others, as implied a lot has to do with the doctrine and design process. Some nations view fire power as priority over protection or mobility.

Any vehicle can be heavily armoured but the result is a loss of mobility. :Smile_Default:

Take Care

bigmantr #56 Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:17 AM

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Thanks Challenger :Smile_Default:
Btw what were your position in the tank? Commander?  :Smile_glasses:

The_Challenger #57 Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:27 AM

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View Postbigmantr, on 14 June 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Thanks Challenger :Smile_Default:
Btw what were your position in the tank? Commander?  :Smile_glasses:

Hi Mate,

Yes, normal Training for Crewman is to train in all  crew positions, starting life as either a Gunner or Driver, then Loader and finally Commander.

Of course from here all is promotion dependant , Squadron Sergeant Major, Troop Leader who is in charge of a Troop of Tanks and so on.

:Smile_Default:

bigmantr #58 Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:33 AM

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Hmm you said you are trained for all crew positions, Which one of them is the most demanding can you list them from most hard and complex to least :Smile_Default:

The_Challenger #59 Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:41 AM

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View Postbigmantr, on 14 June 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

Hmm you said you are trained for all crew positions, Which one of them is the most demanding can you list them from most hard and complex to least :Smile_Default:

Hi,

The theory behind of course as the name suggest "crewman" is that each person is capable of covering the others role if needs be.

You cant list most demanding or complex, for example by default the Commander is the highest rank and most experienced. He is overall responsible for the vehicle. Map reading, fire orders, and being aware of the situationally enviroment and responding to orders.

The Driver is respnsible for all maintenance of course and the dreaded Track bashing but is assisted by the rest of the crew.

So unfair to say most demanding or complex as each is very different. :Smile_Default:

bigmantr #60 Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:54 AM

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I have a general Question about you. You are a military specialist do you intend to write a book about your days in your army? :Smile_veryhappy:  maybe someday you will have a documentary  about it :Smile_popcorn1: And we will be first one to watch it :Smile-izmena:

Good books become Good films :Smile_great:

Edited by bigmantr, 14 June 2012 - 11:55 AM.





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