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ELC AMX and tier changes for the AMX 12t & AMX 13 series


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Eyebot #1 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:20 PM

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according to the news announcementthere will be a new french tank in the light/med line .. the ELC AMX.

Quote

The most drastic changes will affect the French tank tech tree. All light and medium tanks from AMX 12t (i.e. AMX 12t, AMX 13 75, AMX 13 90, Lorraine 40t, Bat Chatillon 25t) will be raised one Tier upwards. The light tank ELC AMX will be added as a  new Tier 5 vehicle with 75 mm SA32, 75 mm Long 44 and 90 mm D914 mountable guns.

pictures:
Spoiler

now as there are no further informations there's lots of room for speculation how the french line might change ... so i hope you don't mind to picture one possible scenario ...

mostly it will depend how they will change the MM values. as there are no light tanks beyond tier 5 it shouldn't be much of a problem to keep the current values & specs for the AMX 12t & AMX 13 series. so while they nominally move up one tier, in practice there won't be any changes to them - neither in specs nor in MM parameters.

now - the tricky question will be the ELC. looking at the turret it won't get a revolver system. which would make sense as it shares two guns with the AMX 12t, so there would still be a noticeable distinction between those two vehicles.

the question will be the 90mm .. chances are high that it will be an AP gun. so we're looking at a tier 5 light with a 120mm+ penetration gun with some odd 240 damage per shot and a slow rof (maybe 4-5 RpM) - if we can go by some characteristics of the BDR's 90mm gun. these specs would make it somewhat comparable to a tier 5 medium, while retaining some traits of the AMX series (notably: mobility).

as the current battle tiering of the AMX 12t is the same as of a tier 6 medium with a tweaked MM weight, i wouldn't be surprised if the ECL gets the battle tiering of a tier 5 medium with a tweaked MM weight as well.

it would be atleast not a balancing nightmare like pushing the battle tiers up of all tanks in the french medium line and therefor having to tweak ALL the specs of the tanks in the line.

i know - it's quite early to conclude ANYTHING ... but at the same time it's entertaining to speculate about possible scenarios. :P

any thoughts?

Edited by Eyebot, 11 June 2012 - 06:37 PM.


falconpilot #2 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:23 PM

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it is looking really small so I think it might be quite the nasty fella :)

my only concern is how the amx12t will work on tier6 with the current guns ...

Eyebot #3 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:31 PM

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View Postfalconpilot, on 11 June 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

it is looking really small so I think it might be quite the nasty fella :)

my only concern is how the amx12t will work on tier6 with the current guns ...
looking at the current MM system you're already playing at tier 6 (the AMX 12t and tier 6 mediums share the same battle tiers)

the difference is just in the MM weight in the team roster.

punishersal #4 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:33 PM

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Will those who have AMX12t get this one for free?

Eyebot #5 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:35 PM

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View Postpunishersal, on 11 June 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Will those who have AMX12t get this one for free?

from the announcement:

Quote

The details about French tanks substitution process and compensation procedure will be explained in more detail in a later update.
so we have to wait

Exocet6951 #6 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:37 PM

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View Postfalconpilot, on 11 June 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

it is looking really small so I think it might be quite the nasty fella :)

my only concern is how the amx12t will work on tier6 with the current guns ...
It should not be too much of a problem, granted they give it MUCH better vertical turret movement.

View PostEyebot, on 11 June 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

looking at the current MM system you're already playing at tier 6 (the AMX 12t and tier 6 mediums share the same battle tiers)

the difference is just in the MM weight in the team roster.
It also probably means that with the current MM rules, it will play as a tier7.

Edited by Exocet6951, 11 June 2012 - 06:38 PM.


hypernova #7 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:43 PM

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My thoughts on substitution from the other thread:

About the French Light/Medium substitution scheme:

So far when a tank got moved to another tier, you got to keep the tank in its new role and got a new tank in the old role. This was however not the case for the Panther II -> E-50 substitution. The difference from the latter case to the French substitutions was that the Panther II was moved down.

So what conclusions can we draw for the current case? I guess that the owners of one of the French tanks in question get to keep it in its new role. I doubt that you will get a free tank in the old role, except maybe for the AMX12. Still, getting a tier N+1 for the price of a tier N would sound fair.

Even though we don't know any facts yet, I will anyhow begin my grind in the French light tree right away.

punishersal #8 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:45 PM

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Quote

The details about French tanks substitution process and compensation procedure will be explained in more detail in a later update.
Haa, it means there will be something

Eyebot #9 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:54 PM

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View PostExocet6951, on 11 June 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

It also probably means that with the current MM rules, it will play as a tier7.

that would open up a can of worms ... as it is right now - the french tier5+ lights are pretty unique. no other tech tree has a similiar layout of light tanks (tier 5 light IN a full tank line, also tier 6 & 7 lights). so there's no strong argument to change the current MM values to create some balance to a similar line of tanks.

sure you could argue now for the sake of consistency that one of the unspoken rules of WoT is that tier 4+ light tanks HAVE to face higher tier tanks than mediums of the same tier. (which is only partially true as the AMX40 deviates from this rule by having the same tierspread as tier 4 mediums).

but as it's an unspoken (and even more important: unwritten) rule i doubt it will lead to a complete overhaul of the french lights - which would certainly be needed in the case of actual changes to the MM values. more likely it will just a nominal change (label them one tier higher in the techtree, don't change any of the actual characteristics).

Nvincible #10 Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:56 PM

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I hope the AMX 12t & 13 series get a HP buff at least. MM-wise they've always been screwed and classed as higher level vehicles, but if they are going to officially label it tier 6,7,8 then they should get the HP to go it, otherwise a tier 6 vehicle with 420hp will be a total joke.

Eyebot #11 Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:36 PM

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from the NA news thread

Quote

Q3: moving French tanks up a tier? Brilliant idea, actually. The lights already had heavier Match Making, and the Lorraine was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overgunned for a tier 8 medium.
A3: They will be rebalanced according to their new stance. We will release more details soon.


now i'm a bit scared. could be just bad wording ...

Waffle_Pepper #12 Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:39 PM

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I love so much my amx 13-90 I really hope they are not breaking french  line up .....

I hope french will have better gun too,  because  amx 13-90 can't be a a T VIII as it is, amx 13-90 doesn't need anything else than better gun....

Exocet6951 #13 Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:14 PM

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View PostWaffle_Pepper, on 11 June 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

I love so much my amx 13-90 I really hope they are not breaking french  line up .....

I hope french will have better gun too,  because  amx 13-90 can't be a a T VIII as it is, amx 13-90 doesn't need anything else than better gun....
Actually, it's gun is pretty much on par with the others, it only has 5mm less than the T-44, which is negligible, especially at that tier.
What I fear is going to happen, is that it's going  to be the same as now, only with more HP, which will make more people whine about how strong it is, and how they can't one-shoot it like tier5 scouts.

Brazilski #14 Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:36 AM

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View PostEyebot, on 11 June 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

from the announcement:

so we have to wait


Considering previous tech tree changes we probably will get the ELC and a garage slot. However, theoretically someone who owns AMX 12t - BatChat would get up to four free garage slots, and I don't see that happening. It would be overkill too IMO. I would be happy with just the ELC. With a 90mm, even if it has low penetration, it would fit my playstyle a would be the one to keep from the French light branch for me.

DeathByDribbling #15 Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:03 AM

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MM already rates them higher.  Imo they will just up the tier but keep same MM.  Main difference will be higher repair costs.

Platypusbill #16 Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:10 AM

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The ELC AMX looks really nice...

But does the uptiering mean that we get freebies? :Smile_great:

FatigueGalaxy #17 Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:48 PM

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AMX 13 90 could get better 90mm gun or even some 105 mm gun (modern but adjusted to WoT). A bit more HP and it could be nice tier 8. Even with current gun and buffed reload time it could work nicely since 170mm is not a big deal - T-44 has just 175mm.
AMX 13 75 could get better engine, HP but dunno about gun. 144mm pen is not enough for tier 7 - KV-13 and VK3002DB proved that. At least 155-165 mm pen and 180-220 avg dmg is a MUST IMO.
AMX 12t won't work in tier 6 with current setup and guns, even after serious buff. Even in tier 6-7 battles it's one of the weakest tier 5 tanks. Drum doesn't give any advantage on this tier (just look at T-34 and its spam gun...). But they will probably give him 75mm gun from AMX 13 75.

Didn't played Lorraine (only on test server) and BatChat yet so I don't comment them.

And please stop with "MM already rates them higher" because those are Light Tanks and WG can give them higher MM value together with higher tier... You know how "WG logic" works, do you?

Eyebot #18 Posted 13 June 2012 - 05:55 AM

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translation of SerB's Q&A

relevant to this topic:

Quote

Will the AMX 13 series get new guns or just the Bat?
The 12t will get the Panther gun, just like it was supposed to be.
The higher AMX 13 will get the short 105.


[Long question about AMX-13-75 gun at Tier 7.]
Probably won't give it the 75mm L100, but we'll think of something.


Why not just create the AMX-13-105 at Tier 8 and leave the 13-75 and 13-90 where they are? Or is it bad to have three idential tanks at three consecutive tiers?
Because we'll probably give the 105 to the existing 13-90.


So the AMX 13-90 - 13-105? - will become a Tier 8 LIGHT TANK?
Yes.


Will the French Tier 5 light be completely analagous to the 12t but without the drum?
Not completely. We'll tell you in due course.


So all the French tanks being moved up a tier will get a new gun?
Not a fact. For example, the Lorraine will probably just have its existing 100mm improved.


Edited by Eyebot, 13 June 2012 - 05:55 AM.


Goblin_5 #19 Posted 13 June 2012 - 09:28 PM

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The new tier 5 looks cute, although it will most like lack the autoloader. Tier 8 light tank sounds scary as it will have enough hp to take a shot and then get next to you for unloading. It also makes the french tree even more unique so I think this is a good change.

Sotahullu #20 Posted 13 June 2012 - 09:43 PM

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Okay, this maybe little bit shock but ELC's 90mm gun "maybe" HE only.

Oh, and looks like it was one of those "legendary" two-man swarm tank project the French had. Also, it had very small automatic loader.


This info is what I got so it's unreliable.




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