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ELC AMX and tier changes for the AMX 12t & AMX 13 series


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CRO_PentiumPower #21 Posted 13 June 2012 - 10:12 PM

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View PostFatigueGalaxy, on 12 June 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

AMX 12t won't work in tier 6 with current setup and guns, even after serious buff. Even in tier 6-7 battles it's one of the weakest tier 5 tanks. Drum doesn't give any advantage on this tier (just look at T-34 and its spam gun...). But they will probably give him 75mm gun from AMX 13 75.
Yes, statistically it's amongst the worser tier 5 tanks.
But the main problem is that it has to flank anything higher than tier 5 in order to damage/destroy it effectively.
That's the reason why it is best used as a support tank,
BUT, on the other hand, it can preform pretty good on it's own (but that's rare and one should have lotsa luck.).
Personally, I always stick to higher-tiered "comrades" that are pushing through the area with fewest enemies, and it works always. (Help them destroy that KV-1s, then banzai through the line to kill a lonely Jagdpanther (or dmg him to 4% HP) etc.
The only real drawback of the tank is virtually non-existing gun depression, which gets frustrating on maps like Murovanka (I spend the whole game on the hill, don't ask why :Smile-hiding: )
Bottom line, it's a perfect tank for opportunistic players, nothing more, nothing less!

Edited by CRO_PentiumPower, 13 June 2012 - 10:12 PM.


CrimsonEntropy #22 Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:12 AM

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Watching with interest - if the AMC is any good I wouldn't mind freeing up a garage slot, and the 13 105 sounds as if it going be rather fun.

Still, roll on the TD's first.

Leucha #23 Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:22 AM

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It's said that the 90mm on ELC was quite low velocity, so, we can maybe expect low pen (maybe 100-110) with 240dmg.

L1nk001 #24 Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:35 PM

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Any idea what 105 is likely to be given to the 13 90?

Nixouf #25 Posted 14 June 2012 - 01:51 PM

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mmmm, there was already no point taking the Amx over the Chaffee, particularlay the Amx 12t and 75, but now with one tier higher this gonna be funny

Vahal #26 Posted 18 June 2012 - 03:34 PM

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So prolly:
ELC AMX with 90mm prolly something similar to 90 DCA30
AMX12 will have 75L70 with AMX13/75HP
AMX13/75 will have 90 F3? or only its SA50? with 13/90 HP
AMX13/90 will have 105mm and i wonder if they will provide ammo rack size the 44 ammunitions and if they will give to AMX the +12/-8° gun vertical travel and 1150HP

About the 105 fitted on 13/90 that would be the 105mm M-57 with 44 calibers accurate at 1700m firing 11kg AP shell at 800m/s and 1.6kg APFSDS/T at 1460m/s penetrating 360mm RHA at 500m. AP shell should have around 190 to 210mm penetration and the gun dispersion around 0.36 since they nerfed 75SA50 and 90mm F3 accuracy. So basicaly 320dmg 180/190mm pen cause wargaming "loves" french tanks 3.5s between each shell and 50s reloading, aiming time around 3s.

Longtime I dont expect anything good from Wargaming "experts" and dev team...

Exocet6951 #27 Posted 18 June 2012 - 06:20 PM

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I just had what I can only describe as a hilarious train of thought: the AMX 13/90 is going to be tier 8, right? It's also going to get a 105mm gun, right?
Now, what equipment is available to tier 8 tanks and up? Vertical Stabs.

That's right AMX 13/105 complete with V.Stabs, to maximize chances of Armageddon.

theghostcat #28 Posted 18 June 2012 - 06:58 PM

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View PostExocet6951, on 18 June 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I just had what I can only describe as a hilarious train of thought: the AMX 13/90 is going to be tier 8, right? It's also going to get a 105mm gun, right?
Now, what equipment is available to tier 8 tanks and up? Vertical Stabs.

That's right AMX 13/105 complete with V.Stabs, to maximize chances of Armageddon.

I can not tell you how badly I want VS on my 13/90. I love, love this little tank. Honestly though, I would be surprised if they give this thing the 105.  Current MM weight puts this tank at a hair under tier 8 MM medium weight. So I'm not sure if upgrades (aside from them reverting the nerfs) will happen.

The ELC looks neat. I'll probably pick up and try it out. No way its getting an autoloader though...

Oddly enough I find WG solution to the french hilarious. A +1 tier increase is what I called for the after the first month of the french invasion.

Currently trying to grind myself out a batchat :P

fellowz #29 Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:53 PM

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well this new branch adjustment is going to mess me up completley, i have both the 13 75 and 90 and love them both, question remains which of them do i keep now that they are a tier higher. the 13 90 needs better acceleration for a tier 8 LIGHT TANK!  its funny that these little things can gangrape the mightiest of tanks. now the 90 gets the 105 this means that they can now deal with the T10 TD's better, i always find myself having to reload after using 1 full mag on a T9 TD with the 105 that extra damage could mean that i may not have to do that anymore.

but im assuming the penetration on it is going to be lower than the 90 but 20-30% more in the damage deparment. it will probably be the 105 13T, and the accuracy and reload time icreases. is it going to be worth it?

its going to be the same trade off as the 88 L71 and the 105 L52 SLIGHTLY less penetration but more damage, less accuracy but EXPENSIVE ammo and a slower reload time

Vahal #30 Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:26 AM

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the possibility that 105 M-57 could have same stats than 13TR is theorically very low. M-57 had good performances interms of ballistic and armor piercing capability and accuracy. But with WG we can expect anything, especially the bad things.

Brazilski #31 Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:28 PM

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View PostExocet6951, on 18 June 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I just had what I can only describe as a hilarious train of thought: the AMX 13/90 is going to be tier 8, right? It's also going to get a 105mm gun, right?
Now, what equipment is available to tier 8 tanks and up? Vertical Stabs.

That's right AMX 13/105 complete with V.Stabs, to maximize chances of Armageddon.

Oh sh,..

Hadn't thought about that at all. Would be epic!

SnibediSnabs #32 Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:18 PM

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View PostWaffle_Pepper, on 11 June 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

I love so much my amx 13-90 I really hope they are not breaking french  line up .....

I hope french will have better gun too,  because  amx 13-90 can't be a a T VIII as it is, amx 13-90 doesn't need anything else than better gun....
it's getting a 105.

killswitch247 #33 Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:34 AM

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at first the 107mm gets removed from the su-85 because 300 dmg s too much alpha. okay. everything else about this tank was shitty (except maybe the downhill speed) but it will probably get balanced - somehow.

but then the new french light tank (in the same tier, with the same mm and mm weighting) gets not only a gun with 240 alpha damage but it also gets 64 kmh topspeed, good accleration, good agility a small silhoutte and 50 hp more than the su-85 ever had. balancing my ass.


sometimes it seems that wg just rolls a dice when it gets around balancing. at least they announced that the french td line and the sowjet kv heavy tank line will get "balanced" at 7.5. after only 3 months the mystical statistics miracle told them that a (admittedly op) tier6 tank isnt automatically balanced as tier7 ...

Edited by killswitch247, 13 July 2012 - 05:35 AM.


Nixouf #34 Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:01 AM

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View Postkillswitch247, on 13 July 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

at first the 107mm gets removed from the su-85 because 300 dmg s too much alpha. okay. everything else about this tank was shitty (except maybe the downhill speed) but it will probably get balanced - somehow.

but then the new french light tank (in the same tier, with the same mm and mm weighting) gets not only a gun with 240 alpha damage but it also gets 64 kmh topspeed, good accleration, good agility a small silhoutte and 50 hp more than the su-85 ever had. balancing my ass.


ELC AMX has not the MM of Su 85, it has the MM of 6 to 9 battletiers so between SU100 and SU152. You also forgot to mention it has 45 degree turret and very slow rate of fire

killswitch247 #35 Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:39 AM

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View PostNixouf, on 13 July 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

ELC AMX has not the MM of Su 85, it has the MM of 6 to 9 battletiers so between SU100 and SU152. You also forgot to mention it has 45 degree turret and very slow rate of fire

6-9 is the su-85's currently matchmaking.

and i thought that they will change the mm so that you won't see anymore enemies that are more than 2 tiers above your own tier (that would be mm tier 6-8) ... or are there exceptions?


i'm just afraid that they remove one tds op alpha strike dmg and add the next even more op td (in disguise of a light tank).

Edited by killswitch247, 13 July 2012 - 09:43 AM.


Nixouf #36 Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:08 AM

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Quote

6-9 is the su-85's currently matchmaking


When ELC AMX is out it will be 6-9 which is tier6-tier7 TD in 7.5 while Su85 will be 5-7. So no it's not the same MM as Su85 far from it

http://forum.worldof...chmaking-chart/

Edited by Nixouf, 13 July 2012 - 10:08 AM.


Maddog2uk #37 Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:17 PM

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ELC is the biggest joke i have seen in this game its a td not a tank,  turret barely moves 0 gun depression if this thing is coming in game it needs its other turret other wise this is a point at enemy select auto  drive and die tank.

ilhilh #38 Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:08 PM

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Case 1. AMX 12t isn’t in the garage at the time of the update release, but is fully researched:
  • Both tanks, ELC AMX and AMX 12t, will be researched
  • All undistributed experience goes from AMX 12t will be moved to the ELC AMX
  • Any crew member in the barracks or in a tank, who possesses the tier 5 AMX 12t skills, get the ability to be used in the tier 6 AMX 12t without any changes or losses
  • Tier 5 AMX 12t combat statistics will be moved to the tier 5 AMX 12t without any losses
  • All AMX 12t modules in the depot that don’t fit other tanks will be automatically sold at the original purchase price
  • All AMX 12t modules fitting other tanks will be saved in the depot, the same goes for shells of the respective guns
Case 2. AMX 12t is in the garage at the time of the update release. All the rules as mentioned in Case 1 apply along with the following:
  • AMX 12t as tier 5 light tank is substituted with AMX 12t as tier 6 light tank
  • Ammunition mounted onto the AMX 12t goes to the depot
  • Consumables and Equipment mounted onto the tier 5 AMX 12t remain on AMX 12t at tier 6.
  • Players get the light french Tier 5 tank ELC AMX (without equipment, consumables, ammunition) and one slot for this tank for free
  • Players get a new full crew for the ELC AMX with 100% training
  • Camouflage mounted onto the Tier 5 AMX 12t is moved to tier 6 AMX 12t and to ELC AMX as well
  • The expiration date of the camo on both vehicles stays the same as it was for the AMX 12t at the moment when the substitution takes place.

My question is what happens to experience on an elited 12t if you have it in your garage.  According to the above info if you don't have the 12t in your garage the exp goes to AMX ELC but when you read about what happens when you do have the 12t in your garage there is no mention of your undistributed exp.  I would expect it does the same as when you don't have it but if anyone can confirm either way that would be nice.

I am going to buy my 12t for the slot but if the exp moves to the AMX ELC then I might as well grind some exp for it (enough to get tracks and perhaps gun etc).

Lemlem #39 Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:06 PM

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Haven't they usually given you an extra slot with the new tank and 100% crew? Not that it will change what I do, because the AMX 12t will stay in my garage in any case.

From what I have tested the new ELC AMX, I am pretty happy that I do not need to grind it. It seems to be limited in its uses. It is more like a fast and tiny TD with a mid range gun. You can not circle enemy heavies like with other fast lights with it because it has no turret. The reload time is also pretty long, so you can not take two shots before you need to relocate if there is enemy guns pointing at you.

Here is some first impressions footage that I was able to get from the test server:
http://youtu.be/XYnE6_mAMEE

I suppose that could still change a bit but probably not in any meaningful way.

killswitch247 #40 Posted 14 July 2012 - 01:08 AM

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View PostNixouf, on 13 July 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

When ELC AMX is out it will be 6-9 which is tier6-tier7 TD in 7.5 while Su85 will be 5-7. So no it's not the same MM as Su85 far from it

http://forum.worldof...chmaking-chart/

thx :)




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