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which sword is better.


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John_Armfeldt #1 Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:36 PM

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ok we got 2 blades that were used by the elite warriors of their cultures

now the question is which one is better and in a war which one would be left standing victorious.

European Longsword or the Japanese Samurai Sword AKA Katana

European Longsword

Length 40-50 inches

Japanese Samurai Sword Nihonto : Katana

Length 36 inches.

now before you say longer is better remember about the lil' tale about a certain david vs goliath.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=EDkoj932YFo

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

i put my money on the Katana if you ask me, if it was one of the only weapons i was allowed to use in a war, i'd take it.

see the vids and you will understand.

Edited by Wolfgang_Kruger, 26 June 2012 - 10:38 PM.


WoTDaFoCh #2 Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:38 PM

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King Arthurs

beermonster1972 #3 Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:42 PM

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View Post3nglish, on 26 June 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

King Arthurs

king arthurs sword would smash johhny foreigner every time p.s my swords 12 inchs but the missus wont believe me

Edited by beermonster1972, 26 June 2012 - 10:44 PM.


Harriette #4 Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:43 PM

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lightsabre > all !

BiteMyWireUk #5 Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:43 PM

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Wargaming likes the pork sword.

Edited by BiteMyWireUk, 26 June 2012 - 10:46 PM.


beermonster1972 #6 Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:46 PM

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View PostBiteMyWireUk, on 26 June 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Wargaming likes the pork sword or two.

Posted Image

DougHole #7 Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:57 PM

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To the OP it depends on the type of action. The style of fighting associated with the Samurai sword requires space and freedom of movement in the footwork and is not suited to the melee. One on one presumably it is light and faster.

To the rest of you
Posted Image

Walker28361 #8 Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:11 PM

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If forced to choose I'd take the Katana, but if I want the best melee infantry in history I'll take a Roman legion.

Catarraz #9 Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:18 AM

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Well, I believe if we were to have two armies of equal number of soldiers facing eachother, like in an open field battle, I'd actually put my money on the one with the long-swords, because in such clash, the style of attack inherent to the chaos would be mere charge & bash everything in the way. You don't think, you can't think. You don't have time for such complicated actions. You just tear everything that appears right before you down. And you have a long and heavy longsword, what could suit better?

In a one-on-one duel however, I think the katana wielder has the upper hand, because for having the lighter sword he can take advantage of openings that a slow longsword provides.

Walker28361 #10 Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:42 AM

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View PostUMM, on 27 June 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

Well, I believe if we were to have two armies of equal number of soldiers facing eachother, like in an open field battle, I'd actually put my money on the one with the long-swords, because in such clash, the style of attack inherent to the chaos would be mere charge & bash everything in the way. You don't think, you can't think. You don't have time for such complicated actions. You just tear everything that appears right before you down. And you have a long and heavy longsword, what could suit better?



What if the longsword guys are noobs? Half of them will die from TK! :Smile_trollface-3:

Ironclad #11 Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:46 AM

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keep in mind that the katana was a pure dueling weapon. In mass-style battles the primary weapon of the samurai was the bow.
And if i had to choose my weapon for a large scale medival fight...i would surly take the bow^^

John_Armfeldt #12 Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:35 AM

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View PostIronclad, on 27 June 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

keep in mind that the katana was a pure dueling weapon. In mass-style battles the primary weapon of the samurai was the bow.
And if i had to choose my weapon for a large scale medival fight...i would surly take the bow^^

may i refresh your memory a bit, the standard 36 inch sword the samurai used along with the Wakizashi and Tanto was the weapon they not used only for simple duels, it was also used in wars, (ever heard of the japanese warring states periods?)

it wasn't uncommon for the Samurai to also have smaller blades in the handgrip and some even inside the Kashira or the butt pummel of the sword.

the way of the sword/warrior known as Bushido was very strict as well, if a samurai lost or forgot his swords, he would never be forgiven and would be forced to commit seppuku (suicide)

i'd say that they were the romans of asia, due to that their sword actually is better in many aspects compared to the longsword.

but if you want to have longer reach then the longsword is to go for, and also a longsword in a close melée is actually more cumbersome than the Katana.

(40-50 inches long with some examples being even 60 inches)

the katana is 36 and though it may not

normally the only thing hitting you were the 3.9 inches or 10cm end of the blade

this is the full list of weapons a samurai carried in combat

the Katana (they sometimes even had a long sword called Nodachi/Odachi on their backs)
the Wakizashi (used also when you committed suicide by slitting your stomach open)
Tanto
Kogatana
Kozuka
Umabari

Joyce #13 Posted 27 June 2012 - 08:29 AM

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May I suggest that the question should not be Katana vs Longsword, but vs Bastard(hand and half sword). Both use a similar style of fighting but are designed to be used against different styles of armour. Both are designed to allow the point to be used as well as the edge,with one or two hands, but the Katana is optimised for use against a different sort of armour compared to the bastard sword, which was designed for use against medieval full plate armour. If push came to shove , and with proper training I would prefer the Katana, but if my opponent was wearing full plate then it would have to be the Bastard sword.

OldIronsides #14 Posted 27 June 2012 - 10:13 AM

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Wow, another one of these high-quality US/UK "which one is the ultimate pwnage weapon of doom, explained in a that much simplified way that even the last white trash trailer park redneck can understand it!!"-style "documentaries"? Good source!

Remember different things:

Those kinds of swords were developed and used under totally different circumstances regarding weapons and armor technology and ideas of warfare and fighting in general. You can't compare them at all.

I've once watched a documentary in German TV where they had a blacksmith who learned both the art of forging traditional japanes swords (from a japanese master blacksmith) and the art of forging traditional European/German swords, and who is also capable of using those weapons in the appropiate way.
The Katana for example is a weapon that breaks much more easily than the German (the special style they focussed on in the documentary) long sword. And this is likely to happen if those two kinds of swords meet. Interesting footnote: the iron found ored in Japan is generally of lower quality then European iron ore, so from a certain point in history (16th century? Don't remember exactly) the Japanese started importing iron from Europe... just to cool down the myth of invincible Japanese steel...

Both of these weapons are absolutely what they are made being for: deadly. Trying to compare them is rather dull and just caused by some kind of mindless hype for Japanese Katana swords (see Blade and thousands of other movies or video and computer games).

Catarraz #15 Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:28 AM

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View PostOldIronsides, on 27 June 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Wow, another one of these high-quality US/UK "which one is the ultimate pwnage weapon of doom, explained in a that much simplified way that even the last white trash trailer park redneck can understand it!!"-style "documentaries"? Good source!

Remember different things:

Those kinds of swords were developed and used under totally different circumstances regarding weapons and armor technology and ideas of warfare and fighting in general. You can't compare them at all.

I've once watched a documentary in German TV where they had a blacksmith who learned both the art of forging traditional japanes swords (from a japanese master blacksmith) and the art of forging traditional European/German swords, and who is also capable of using those weapons in the appropiate way.
The Katana for example is a weapon that breaks much more easily than the German (the special style they focussed on in the documentary) long sword. And this is likely to happen if those two kinds of swords meet. Interesting footnote: the iron found ored in Japan is generally of lower quality then European iron ore, so from a certain point in history (16th century? Don't remember exactly) the Japanese started importing iron from Europe... just to cool down the myth of invincible Japanese steel...

Both of these weapons are absolutely what they are made being for: deadly. Trying to compare them is rather dull and just caused by some kind of mindless hype for Japanese Katana swords (see Blade and thousands of other movies or video and computer games).


So what's wrong with a little discussion, if that isn't what forums are for? With an intro like that, I believe you must have missed your forum by a whole ocean :Smile_veryhappy:
Sure they were made in different places under different circumstances, but hey, one would account here which they find more versatile and therefore better and why.

Rostlaube #16 Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:26 PM

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View PostUMM, on 27 June 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

So what's wrong with a little discussion, if that isn't what forums are for? With an intro like that, I believe you must have missed your forum by a whole ocean :Smile_veryhappy:
Sure they were made in different places under different circumstances, but hey, one would account here which they find more versatile and therefore better and why.

nothing is wrong with discussion and it´s an interresting question. but the guy who started the thread posted a link to a stupid american video, that is pure bull****.
they made a longsword and a katana with modern steel and explain that the katana is superior, because the (modern) katana can cut lether armor.

Catarraz #17 Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:39 PM

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View PostRostlaube, on 27 June 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

they made a longsword and a katana with modern steel and explain that the katana is superior, because the (modern) katana can cut lether armor.

Ah, yes, in face of this issue, the OP must reformulate his question and specify whether he wonders which sword was better back then, or which design is the most versatile and efficient regardless of time period :Smile_Default:

Edited by UMM, 27 June 2012 - 01:41 PM.


theta0123 #18 Posted 27 June 2012 - 04:27 PM

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Eddards stark sword=Ice

Made with valyrian steel


As for Katana vs European longsword. Its like the tiger tank vs sherman. The tiger(katana) will win in combat vs the sherman(EU longsword) most of the time
but by the time you made a Katana.....There where 40 european long swords off the bench

Catarraz #19 Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:10 PM

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accidental "post" button here, sorry

Edited by UMM, 27 June 2012 - 07:11 PM.


John_Armfeldt #20 Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:18 AM

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well i have used both a longsword and bastard sword and a Katana (both made with in classic and modern variant, that means the materials made)

and i must say the Katana completely cut the contest through like a katana through an ice block, the longsword did not do really well, but the bastard sword DID do better.

now i would like to have a Katana made with good old fashioned highly pure swedish steel.

we swedes are notorious for our remarkably high purity in our iron ore which also results in a exceptionally high quality steel.



View PostUMM, on 27 June 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

they made a longsword and a katana with modern steel and explain that the katana is superior, because the (modern) katana can cut lether armor.

oh btw, an old classic katana would have been able to do it as well, i've used one in similar tests.

also some historical experts says that the Katana would have won if there would have ever been a european japanaese medieval war.

Edited by Wolfgang_Kruger, 28 June 2012 - 06:32 AM.





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