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AMX-30 will be IN GAME


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tomicelj #1 Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:05 PM

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I was reading sth. on World of tanks wiki and i found new French final tech tree. in that tree AMX-30 is tier 10 medium tank , the top of a new line. I went to Wikipedia it says that AMX-30 has a top speed of 65km/ and it is 35 tons heavy. It has a max armour of 80mm-nothing for tier 10 . It has a g 105 mm gun. I think that could be the same gun batchat will get when at tier 10. I also think that AMX-30 will not have auto-loader. So i think that it will have gameplay like Leopard 1 German tier 10 second medium tank (bad armour, good mobility). I want to get them both.
What do you think?

Anthoniusii #2 Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:16 PM

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Amx 30 never had an auto loader.
In fact AMX 30 was the lighter in armor main battle tank of NATO in late 60's and 70's.
But it was the 1st in NATO that used entirely smooth gun barell gun.
French tank use strtegy relied on mobillity while British relied on armor.

AMX 30 was an easy victim for all 70's main battle tanks.
The armor was so thin that 23mm shells could easily penetrate it.
AMX 30 became a best seller though thank to British and US tank sales policy that denied tanks to many third world countries.
Also AMX 30 offered desert cooling system that no other NATO tank offered and made the sales on Arabic countries easier.
Cyprus was the last that bought 2nd hand AMX 30 from France and Greece.
Greece bought those tanks when US had an embargo of weapons against Greece in 1968-1974 inorder to help Turkey in the Cyprus invasion plans.
Greece then ordered a huge pack of French weapons and AMX 30 were part of them.
French abandoned autoloader because in 50% of cases it jammed or even exploded!

Edited by Anthoniusii, 05 July 2012 - 03:17 PM.


Colonel_Boom #3 Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:19 PM

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Firstly, it isn't the final tech tree. Don't think that because if you do then you will be disappointed or raging the Devs.

Well, to the AMX30. The project "Standardpanzer" consisted of 4 development teams. 1 of them was french. Dev team C had to stop before the first prototypes. So Team A and B were designing the Standardpanzer together later. The french guys developed on their own and the AMX 30 was the result while the other guys build prototypes for the Leopard which had 70mm front armor and could reach a topspeed of 73 km/h with a 830 HP engine.

The big problem is the ingame balancing. You can hardly bring in such tanks when the Batchat is already there. There could be the solution to make the types of armor relevant. But such a system will take some time to implement so you can be sure that these tanks will come next year or the following years afterwards...
For example the Leo used a 105mm L7A3 which was slightly modified to fit the gun into the turret and to reach -9 degrees of gun depression. The AMX 30 used its own 105mm DEFA gun.

mfg boom

Anthoniusii #4 Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:27 PM

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I agree that rabit speed French light tanks must be modified and re-ballanced.
DEFA 105mm wont make a diference (like already ingame soviet 122mm guns) if French light tanks continue to shot
6 rounds per 20 secs!
Then what is the point a player to buy a s"real" tank like AMX-30 when an imaginary one Chat Bat can have same survivor chances (its armor can hold 122mm shots)
but its gun with the 6 rp20secs can destroy that real tank!
WG made a huge mistake when entered all those "imaginary" or not French light tanks in game.
Now selling new tanks will be almost imposible unless armor and rate of fire ballance will change .

jk123 #5 Posted 05 July 2012 - 10:12 PM

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hmmmmmm

Hydranyx #6 Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:22 AM

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View PostAnthoniusii, on 05 July 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

...
French abandoned autoloader because in 50% of cases it jammed or even exploded!

Not true, the AMX 56 Leclerc use autoloader.

Max_Manus #7 Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:31 AM

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View PostAnthoniusii, on 05 July 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Amx 30 never had an auto loader.
In fact AMX 30 was the lighter in armor main battle tank of NATO in late 60's and 70's.
But it was the 1st in NATO that used entirely smooth gun barell gun.

The 105mm F1 of the AMX30 was not a smoothbore, it was a rifled gun.

Anthoniusii #8 Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:46 PM

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AMX 56
Posted Image

Re-uses a autoloader designed by Russians!!
That co-operation started in the last years of Soviet Union when French wanted to develop AMX 40
Posted Image

But their autoloaders continued to have jamming problems.
The millitary pack had exchange of millitary technologies such -for example-night vision devices from french and autoloader technology from soviets.
That co-operation still exists between France and Russia.
AMX 40 was a cantidate for Greece in 80's with 100% production abillity and also was offered to Arab states with no success.
AMX 30 B2 was not succesfull as finall product in such a point that Reinmetal offered a modernisation pack with LEO 1A5 gun, suspension,targeting system
and land weels. But French made veto on that desition.

XxXSpottedYouXxX #9 Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:43 AM

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Looks like something i may consider getting but my first priority is the "Demi-Chieftain" !.

By the way the British had the centurion in the 50's which could take out an amx 30 with ease in my humble opinion.

Anthoniusii #10 Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:38 AM

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View PostDerRizerPin, on 07 July 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

Looks like something i may consider getting but my first priority is the "Demi-Chieftain" !.

By the way the British had the centurion in the 50's which could take out an amx 30 with ease in my humble opinion.
Yes in reality  AMX 30 was the weakest tank.
Any shell of an L7/105MM gun could destroy it.
But L7 users could also have ammo suplies from everywhere but DEFA users had to buy ammo only from France.
That was AMX 30's biggest problem.
In game imagine AMX 30 fase to fase with Chat Bat...
Chat Bat's easiest oponet.
I wonder why a customer will buy AMX 30 with 6-7 rounds per minute when he can buy Chat Bat with 6 rounds per 20 secs!
I believe WG is looking for "victims".

Edited by Anthoniusii, 07 July 2012 - 07:44 AM.


Waroch #11 Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:53 AM

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View PostAnthoniusii, on 07 July 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

But L7 users could also have ammo suplies from everywhere but DEFA users had to buy ammo only from France.

this is not true. The CN105 could shoot any NATO 105mm shell; it was merely a high pressure 105mm gun with a special rifling. While this rifling could cause some instability using simple APDS rounds and foreign HEAT, it actually gave noticeably better performances with APFSDS (higher velocity), not counting obviously the french-made HEAT Obus G.

The real problem of the 1st generation of AMX30 was its gearbox, which had only poor performances. But its gun was enough to destroy any battle tank of its generation, even the most heavily armoured!

XxXSpottedYouXxX #12 Posted 08 July 2012 - 11:40 AM

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Someone say something awesome about the amx 30 because its one im after i consider myself getting it, Although i will wait to see its final release and stats first theirs no point in getting the amx 30 if its going to be a paper sheet.

Anthoniusii #13 Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:46 PM

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View PostWaroch, on 07 July 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

this is not true. The CN105 could shoot any NATO 105mm shell; it was merely a high pressure 105mm gun with a special rifling. While this rifling could cause some instability using simple APDS rounds and foreign HEAT, it actually gave noticeably better performances with APFSDS (higher velocity), not counting obviously the french-made HEAT Obus G.

The real problem of the 1st generation of AMX30 was its gearbox, which had only poor performances. But its gun was enough to destroy any battle tank of its generation, even the most heavily armoured!
L7 and its versions in Greek army:
Uses ammos from :
USA
Israel
Germany
England
Holand

All those ammos are not exactly cloned.
They have minor to big changes but all are verified to that gun.

AMX-30- in everyones service -only ammo resource France.
Do you get the whole idea?
AMX-30B2 can not fire on move (2 lvl stabilisation like Leo1).
M48A5MOLF can !
AMX-30 was France's 2nd export success (1st was Mirage IV) though because France
sold tanks were US and Germany refused to sell.

Quote

The real problem of the 1st generation of AMX30 was its gearbox, which had only poor performances. But its gun was enough to destroy any battle tank of its generation, even the most heavily armoured!
Are you sure about that?
Then why every customer that bought AMX-30 asked Reinmetall to put Leo's gun on the tank -from Saudi Arabia to Greece-???
Only the french vetos were stoped that process!

@DerRizerPin
My friend i hope that your dream will come true.
But stay away from M48 and Bat Chat... :)

Edited by Anthoniusii, 27 August 2012 - 03:49 PM.


Exocet6951 #14 Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:47 PM

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I seriously hope they reconsider the Leo1 and AMX-30

1950's heavy tanks have no business being anywhere near early 60's tanks(yeah ok, maybe 1959 for an early blueprint prototype, if you stretch it) that simply outclassed them in every category..

Nixouf #15 Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:12 AM

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Comparing armor thickness of different periods is quite meaningful to the credibility you can have. Materials used are not the same, nor the way they were assembled. When more resistant, less armor thickness is needed for the same result. The latest version of the Amx30 used reactive armour, technology proved to be very effective during the Liban war (1962).

So judging only by thickness is ignorance.

Quote

AMX-30 was France's 2nd export success (1st was Mirage IV) though because France
sold tanks were US and Germany refused to sell.

Spain, Qatar, UAE, Arabia are not "third world" countries nor countries under US embargo so I guess what you say there is wrong once again.

Quote

By the way the British had the centurion in the 50's which could take out an amx 30 with ease in my humble opinion

Well your opinion is indeed humble considering the fact Centurion is as fast as tanks from the beginning of WW2, while Amx 30 is nearly twice faster, 50% more agile and has still more operational range and powerful gun. Centurion could not even have a chance to fire its gun and would be outmanoeuvered with ease by tanks of Amx 30 era.

Edited by Nixouf, 28 August 2012 - 04:29 AM.


lonigus #16 Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:43 AM

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I welcome the fact that finally Germany and French will get their "modern" tank med tree... I mean the batchat aint very old in design terms, but it still misses the pure med feeling that the M48 or T62A delivers.

davl7 #17 Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:45 AM

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@Nixouf,
its rarely i bother with these "which tank is the best", however, i need to interject here, your comment about the AMX30's performance is totally unfounded, whereas the Centurian has proven itself in battle on many occasion, alas the AMX is unfortunatley unproven, well maybe it has been used to subdue the local population in a couple of the countries you mentioned, but really, get a grip.  The only possible area which the AMX excels at is speed and range, but even a fast tank cannot outrun a round travelling in excess of 2000mph

Nixouf #18 Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:30 PM

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Renault FT 17 has also proven itself on the battlefield during WW1, however i'm pretty sure that it had no chance against a Panther.

You say the importance of speed on the battlefield is totally unfounded?
Well go say that to Napoleon or to Hitler, not sure they will agree.



P.S: After checking on Wiki, Austria, Canada and Denmark who were operating the Centurion, replaced it by the Leopard 1, which is basically the German version of the Amx-30 project, much faster and mobile MBT.

Edited by Nixouf, 29 August 2012 - 12:45 PM.


Kellomies #19 Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:42 PM

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View Postdavl7, on 29 August 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

@Nixouf,
its rarely i bother with these "which tank is the best", however, i need to interject here, your comment about the AMX30's performance is totally unfounded, whereas the Centurian has proven itself in battle on many occasion, alas the AMX is unfortunatley unproven, well maybe it has been used to subdue the local population in a couple of the countries you mentioned, but really, get a grip.
Qatari (or somesuch) AMX-30s apparently mopped the floor well enough with Iraqi T-whatevers in the Gulf War you know...
Considering that the selfsame 105mm gun, bolted onto approximetely every conceivable platform the Israelis could cram it into, merrily butchered sundry well-armoured Soviet export machinery in several wars one does suspect the "not worth trying" approach to armour may not exactly have been baseless.

Quote

The only possible area which the AMX excels at is speed and range, but even a fast tank cannot outrun a round travelling in excess of 2000mph
Right, because that was always the intent amirite guise?

TxCRP #20 Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:27 PM

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View PostAnthoniusii, on 06 July 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Re-uses a autoloader designed by Russians!!
........
The millitary pack had exchange of millitary technologies such -for example-night vision devices from french and autoloader technology from soviets.

You'r wrong about the autoloader tech it's a french development from AMX13 to AMX56 Leclerc. During gulf war (1990) french capture a Iraq T-72 to study it and autoload system are totaly different, there where no military coop with russian during cold war (now yes). And i'm sure of my info a expert of gun who work on late AMX13 version, lerclerc and did a part of the study on the captured T-72 explains me this, his desk is 20meter from my.

For NATO standard amo it's a big joke and a big problems for every equipment because amo are qualify for a gun but if you want to use it in another gun with the same NATO standard you are ok to fire but not to hit the target. Leclerc can shoot amo fromabrams, leopard2... every 120mm nato standard but you'r not shure of the result.

Sorry for my poor english




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