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People don´t understand this thing with the new T10 meds


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crux_tm #41 Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:14 PM

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You can bounce a lot of shots with T44, Type59 on IS-3, T32, KV5 front. Same with T-54 on E75, VK45B, ST-1 = your argument is invalid.
The T10 MTs just have way too much penetration for medium tanks. Doesn't matter they are T10.

Edited by crux2005, 10 July 2012 - 07:15 PM.


Rhosta #42 Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:32 PM

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View Postcaprera, on 10 July 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

I understand the lament about Heavies but most of this comes from the WWII idea that the Heavy Tank is the King and everyone must obey to him. This is not the case anymore: WoT, as repeated many times, it's not about WWII, and with technical branches ending in (about) 1953, it's perfectly normal to see Heavies lay down the crown to those tanks that already during the war became the main weapon for mechanized forces.

finally somebody with real argument

Edward_Teague #43 Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:36 PM

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View Postcrux2005, on 10 July 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

You can bounce a lot of shots with T44, Type59 on IS-3, T32, KV5 front. Same with T-54 on E75, VK45B, ST-1 = your argument is invalid.
The T10 MTs just have way too much penetration for medium tanks. Doesn't matter they are T10.

I am sorry but you can bouce alot of shoots with is4 / m103 / is7 / t110 on other tier X tanks so your argument is invalid.

Pen is fine.

Edited by Edward_Teague, 10 July 2012 - 07:37 PM.


Toddwjp #44 Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:55 PM

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if the tier 10 meds dont get theese high power guns then what do they have above the tier 9 meds a part from more hp

Cippalippus #45 Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:57 PM

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View PostHanki, on 10 July 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

The problem is that the T10 are closer to MBT than to regular mediums, i guess they will nerfed during the test and awhile after to adjust them to the other tanks, the stats are not final.

How is a Maus closer than a Patton to an MBT?

crnivuk #46 Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:58 PM

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View PostNextToYou, on 10 July 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

People don´t understand that these tanks will be T10. Meaning that they should be AS GOOD AS current T10 heavies.
are current Tier9 meds as good as Tier9 heavies?

Cippalippus #47 Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:08 PM

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They're much better.

caprera #48 Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:17 PM

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Tier 9 meds now could be seen as a little OP - compared to respective heavies - because until now there was no alternative.

Since 0.7.5 is coming with a backpack full of game re-balances i suppose we could see current top mediums to be nerfed a little, so that the passage to Tier X will be felt much more significant; at least for newcomers.

I still doubt they will have much more Hp than predecessors, but still there should be a difference of some relevance.

NextToYou #49 Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:11 PM

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View PostQuickfingers, on 10 July 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

You have not accounted for the following.

The new T62-A has 48.48 DPS


The new M48-A1 has 48.75 DPS



The T110 has 40 DPS


The IS-4 has 36.67 DPS




This means the new T10 mediums will do 20% more DPM than the T110 and 33% more DPM than the IS-4.


So their health pool differences now become futile.



Combine this with mobility and I am not so sure the Heavies have the advantage.


DPS = Damage Per Second

DPM = Damage Per Minute

Heavies still have a lot better armor thou.

The problem with your calculations is that you calculate this in a vacuum, like in an ideal world, where every shot penetrates with damage.

In the real game thou, the IS-4 will soak a lot of that DPS to his tracks, Maus will bounce shots from his side, where new T10 meds won´t etc.

The truth is that a lot of shots in the real game will be fired from far distances, where you cannot aim for sure-penetration weak spot. There the heavies will have a great advantage still. Meds will win in short ranges, as it should be.

Therefore DPS/DPM is NOT just one number which defines which tank is the best.

Edited by NextToYou, 10 July 2012 - 10:20 PM.


crnivuk #50 Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:18 PM

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not to mention WoT maps are not made for medium tanks (to small, no tactical depth, 90% of the maps are made with bottle necks, all maps have only 2 attack routes etc.)

Lin3 #51 Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:14 PM

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My crystal balls predict a lot of tier 10 medium wolfpacks dominating random battles after 7.5 is released.

It will be just like the old Beta days when T54's ruled the battlefield.

VGA #52 Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:07 AM

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View PostEdward_Teague, on 10 July 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

this is complete tosh.

Lets compare tier 8.

Heavys:
IS3
KT
KV4
T34
T32
LOWE
AMX 100
KV5

Now lets see which of these tier 8 mediums can do all of the above tanks, frontally.
Errrr All

PantherII
T44
Type58
Lorraine

so it will not be any different than what you have now at tier 8 already.

Likewise for tier 9
t54 and other meds can pen all tierIX frontally.

The days of rolling around in your heavy thinking your the bauss are gone.
I usually agree with you but not this time. Seriously you can reliable penetrate tier 8 tanks with 175mm penetration ? I don't think so, IS-3, KingTiger, T32 armor is good ... and still it's balanced.

And current tier 9 meds have trouble frontally penetrating, about half the shots will bounce on tier 10s. (I'm not talking training battle, sitting still and shooting at weakspots)

Jediron7 #53 Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:35 AM

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View Posttheghostcat, on 10 July 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Would +1 you both but I'm all out.

Tier 10 meds & TD's will be harder to use then tier 10 heavies.

Tier 10 TD SHOULD scare the hell out of most heavies.

Tier 10 meds SHOULD be able to pen tier 10's to the front (there is a reason heavy tanks aren't around anymore)
Are you sure? The m1 Abrams weights 67 tons, now that is far from medium in my mind.

No, the two classes are melted toghether. That is my idea of it. the Main batte tank nowadays perform both meds and heavy tanks roles.
There is no need for two different classes anymore.

Todd #54 Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:51 AM

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View Postcrnivuk, on 10 July 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

are current Tier9 meds as good as Tier9 heavies?

View PostCippalippus, on 10 July 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

They're much better.

To be fair they are better in the majority of areas.

About Maus and E100, you want to make people fear these two vehicles? Give Maus 4000 hp and E100 3400 hp. That'll give them some staying power coupled with their theoretical armor.

XxXSpottedYouXxX #55 Posted 11 July 2012 - 02:22 AM

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View PostRhosta, on 10 July 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Not even a platoonic relationship?

Anyway, even if T10 meds will dominate. It will be more dynamic battles out there, rather than heavy tank camp fest today.
So I am really looking forward to T10 meds.

Me to.

I think a platoon would be nice then we could go shopping for tanks after a few games :S.

Edward_Teague #56 Posted 11 July 2012 - 03:42 AM

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View PostVGA, on 11 July 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

I usually agree with you but not this time. Seriously you can reliable penetrate tier 8 tanks with 175mm penetration ? I don't think so, IS-3, KingTiger, T32 armor is good ... and still it's balanced.

And current tier 9 meds have trouble frontally penetrating, about half the shots will bounce on tier 10s. (I'm not talking training battle, sitting still and shooting at weakspots)

True.
175 is on the low side.

but

Panther2 has 203.
Pershing has 180.
Lorraine has 232(100mm) / 212(90mm)

with a panther2 u can reliably pen any tierVIII Heavy tank in the game frontally. Not to mention lorraine.
So I cant really see too much of a problem. :Smile_great:

Edited by Edward_Teague, 11 July 2012 - 03:42 AM.


VGA #57 Posted 11 July 2012 - 03:50 AM

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View PostEdward_Teague, on 11 July 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

Panther2 has 203.
Pershing has 180.
Lorraine has 232(100mm) / 212(90mm)
But those tank are paper ... that's why it's balanced. Tier 10 mediums are not going to be paper  :Smile_veryhappy:

XxXSpottedYouXxX #58 Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:05 AM

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Look at all the whine here lol :S.

Them heavy campers and Tier 10 noobs will think twice now kind of awesome idea to introduce new tier 10 mediums this should make people play the game a bit better think twice about things and hopefully get people from camping the maps lets hope something changes for the greater good :).

Tupinambis #59 Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:21 AM

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View PostBoskoSLO, on 10 July 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

But but... E-100 and MAUS will have no advantage in anything, even maus is going to be a free kill for meds now. Maybe its time to sell my E-100 ;)


If nothing else the E-100 should be able to pancake any medium tank with its 150mm gun. The tier 10 meds may have some armor, but they still can't stop 235mm of pen by the looks of it.

dimovski #60 Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:22 AM

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View Postcaprera, on 10 July 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Tier 9 meds now could be seen as a little OP - compared to respective heavies - because until now there was no alternative.

try to be the only E-50 in your team,and the only tier 9, whilst the enemys has an ST-1/E-75, especially when you aint upgraded...