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WG Why do you hate T-54 so much?


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Hawker_gb #41 Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:15 PM

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View PostSteffenximus, on 13 July 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Take a look at the huge nerfs on E-50, then talk.

And to Anthon, ALL T9 meds lose a lot of money. E-50's gun cost 1280 per shell.

Nerfs?
E-50 never been better then now.

Snib #42 Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:21 PM

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View PostAnthoniusii, on 17 July 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Why WG han not published a video about the proper use of tier 9 meds like it did for the french tds?
Proper use is to buy a premium tank, a premium account, and then spend gold to convert XP to free XP to get a tier 10 medium. Really, thought it was obvious. :Smile_trollface-3:

Disclaimer: I'm enjoying the T-54 and have no problems penetrating an IS-4 from the sides with it.

Anthoniusii #43 Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:38 PM

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View PostSnib, on 17 July 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Proper use is to buy a premium tank, a premium account, and then spend gold to convert XP to free XP to get a tier 10 medium. Really, thought it was obvious. :Smile_trollface-3:
That's the most accurate answer ever given!

Lord_WC #44 Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:44 PM

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View PostAnthoniusii, on 17 July 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Some will say "don't face it ahead" ...right so i runed at its sides and start shoting with this WONDERFULL D-54

I don't think a t9 vehicle - or rather any higher tier vehicle - should offer more handholding than a low tier one. If you would like to put it that way, low tier vehicles should be forgiving and noob friendly but the skill cap on them should be low, while this would gradually change through higher tiers into a less noob friendly, but higher skill cap approach. T-54 sadly lacks in the latter - the shortcomings of it can be a bit compensated for but it doesn't have a stat or thing in which it would excel.

To put it another way - by the time you get to t-54 it's certanly not an insane request that you should know where to shoot at an enemy tank to achieve penetration. In case of IS-4 you can shoot the lower glacis, the bullet trap at the turret, the side between the return rollers or the lower back plate.

MadInAShed #45 Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:53 PM

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View PostAnthoniusii, on 15 July 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Who said that Chat Bat can not kill a T-54 with 3 shots?
I just got kiled by a Chat Bat with 3 ONLY shots!!!That is for those that "worship" everything WG does and find NO mistake!

OMG, who do i complain to then because my batty cannot ordinarily* 3 shot a t54, they must have sold me a duff one!!!

*the ONLY way a batchat can 3 shot a t54 is either ammo rack or fire (which applies to every single tank in the game)

Serriously, using your argument, my T54 can 1 shot an IS7, so we should nerf the T54 or buff the IS7???

Go away, learn to play the T54 or even better, as advised before, sell it!

DTibru #46 Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:59 PM

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I don't know about playing them, but from all tier9 meds i dislike fighting T54 most. Is the only medium where i bounce with E75.

Pafsanias #47 Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:12 PM

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Each medium has its own pros and cons.
T-54: Good mobility as a whole. Dings on the armor are more propable than the other meds. Tracks can absorb a lot of punishment. The profile even if it is nerfed ( i.e become bigger) is still low enough to exploit terrain ibn order to expose only the turret. Still can solo kill a Maus without having to go to the rear side of Maus. It is a gun and run tank that can take much more punishment than a batchat.
It's cammo value is one of the best in the game for meds.
Disadvantages are there to put a challenge to your game play :).

Anthoniusii #48 Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:26 PM

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View PostPafsanias, on 17 July 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Each medium has its own pros and cons.
T-54: Good mobility as a whole. Dings on the armor are more propable than the other meds. Tracks can absorb a lot of punishment. The profile even if it is nerfed ( i.e become bigger) is still low enough to exploit terrain ibn order to expose only the turret. Still can solo kill a Maus without having to go to the rear side of Maus. It is a gun and run tank that can take much more punishment than a batchat.
It's cammo value is one of the best in the game for meds.
Disadvantages are there to put a challenge to your game play :).
As i explained here:
WoT maps are not yet suitable enough to make engine powerfull and accelaration crusial factors of survival.

necrodeath #49 Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:23 PM

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View PostPafsanias, on 17 July 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

can take much more punishment than a batchat.
Not really.

captainInsano #50 Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:32 PM

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View PostLord_WC, on 17 July 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Again, just for reference - you get credits depending the amount of damage you dealt. More damage = more creds.
Now you pay 1245 for 390 damage (and let's not even go into the accuracy question, because that matters a lot again), or you pay 3,19 credits for each hp damage.

On the other hand you pay 1230 for 320 damage in a t-54, or 3,84 credits for each hp damage.

All else equal that means for the exact same amount of damage a t-54 pays 20% more ammo cost. As the profitability of t9 meds are really low this means that you certanly can expect a loss in long term on a t-54. That, by itself wouldn't be the problem. The problem is that other t9s doesn't suffer from the same. This would only be fair if, and only if the t-54 has superior stats (the income expectancy is higher for it). Well, this may have been the case in the beta, however now it's clearly the weakest t9. It's not a bad tank, no. It's playable, all right. But having the worst t9 med AND losing creds in the process is terribly annoying.



Yes, and e-100s would run around with a wooden turret, t95s would cruise around 5km/h, and instead of e50s you would have 2 sleepy eyed designers... We are not talking about reaility, this is a game, with its own balance.


Regarding the original post: I don't think WG hates the t-54. This rebalance is certanly a step in the right direction. After the nerfs the t-54 should have been reevaluated, this happens now. If these buffs are enough, or too much/little we will see in a few weeks.

View PostSnib, on 17 July 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

T-54 pays 3.85 credits per HP avg. damage.
E-50 pays 3.19 credits per HP avg. damage.

That's what it's about. Patton is the most profitable tier 9 medium at the moment, but they're not only nerfing its hidden income multiplier in 0.7.5 but also the tank itself, whereas T-54 won't get an income nerf and actually a buff to the tank itself, so the situation might well be the inverse in 0.7.5.

Well, think about it fellas...just for a second. This is why some people prefer (or most likely most) to use the 88/71 in VK4502A instead of the 10,5cm top-gun due to credit-cost vs. actual effect per shot. I personally use the long 10,5/52 on the E-50, but a good friend (and skilled one as well) use the 88/100 instead because of the HUGE ammo-cost. So ie. for the E-50 there's a HUGE difference between using the 88 or the 105, more precisely about 1k per shot.

Same thing goes for the T-54, only difference is that both "top-guns" lack in stats compared to the E-50 guns (LB-1, D-54 vs. 88/100, 105/52)...BUT...they are also very, very dis alike from each-other (hence the different stat setup for the vehicles). Funny thing is that before i started to write this answer, i just left from a T-54 battle. During my typing i got the results from it....nothing that impressive, but better than standard results = 2834xp (x2 daily double) and 52.867 credits (repairs 413, ammo 4788) with a total of 47.666 earnings. Have in mind that my T-54 is NOT fully upgraded, i lack the turret and the D-54 gun. But i highly doubt i will ever need the D-54 due to dmg-done vs. cost factor = same thing as with ie. IS, KV-3, VK4502A and others.

Yes, 175 penetration for a tier 9 is silly weak but as you can see i can still bring havoc due to the T-54s absolutely brilliant maneuverability. Not because it has a "crap" top-gun. Sure, 300 penetration gun might do the trick, but you don't need that if you can flank an enemy on a frequent basis. Showing off some phony credits per HP-dmg is at times very misleading. Staring yourselves blind at pure stats instead of looking at other obvious facts. Hmmm...how many clans prefer the E-50 over ie. T-54, i would dare to say very few. Coincidence? Oh, and the stats between the D-54 vs. 10,5/52 is more or less the same EXCEPT the D-54 has a higher DPM....and don't even get into accuracy since the T-54 is an assault-tank while the E-50 wouldn't last long attempting to be one. Oh (again)...guess how often i receive 45-50k earnings with my E-50 equipped with the expensive 10,5? Yep, that's right close to never ever ever ever....Sure i've had some great battles in it, but the ammo-cost clearly soaks up all the income. Even if a battle goes top-notch, the ammo-cost is nearly as high as the income....

Finally, as with all tanks. Some suit certain players better than others. I'm actually surprised of how fun i think the T-54 is, especially since i've played shitloads of battles with the E-50 (and mostly hated it. Like an E-75 but faster and with a much, much worse gun. Just as expensive though). Even though i lag behind some +200 battles for a comparison, my stats for the T-54 is slightly better than in my E-50, and as i said my T-54 is NOT fully upgraded (only got suspension + LB-1). This might something to consider for yourselves as well. I blame the player more than the tank.

PS! Oh btw! I still remember all too well how absolutely horrible it was with the T-54 during early beta-days until the tank got nerf-hammered. It had the size of a go-cart with the speed of an F1-car, ding-armour of the gods and more or less the same gun. Trust me, if you think the T-54 is bad now, you have no idea how un-balanced this game has been over the years (most recent crap is french TDs, before that French Lights, especially BatChat which was insane at first. Now balanced, but still good).

PS2 (no, not the console)! I am a golden god! (and a fairly intoxicated one as well)

Edited by captainInsano, 17 July 2012 - 10:47 PM.


Lord_WC #51 Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:02 PM

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View PostcaptainInsano, on 17 July 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

PS2 (no, not the console)! I am a golden god! (and a fairly intoxicated one as well)

Let's talk about this again when you played about 200 or so matches.
I can show exceptional matches with any tank as well - the problem with t-54 is in the long run.
And you misunderstood me. I didn't say the t-54 is bad. I'm saying it's much worse than any other t9 medium. Those are two different things.

Homer_J #52 Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:52 PM

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View PostAnthoniusii, on 17 July 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Someone said..You get more money depending on the damage to cause...
Today fight.
I was the only med in a battle facing IS-4.
Some will say "don't face it ahead" ...right so i runed at its sides and start shoting with this WONDERFULL D-54
that failed to penetrate IS-4's sides!!!!!!!!!!
Of course IS-4 killed me with two shots!


You forgot the part about not getting in front of it's gun.

captainInsano #53 Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:29 PM

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View PostLord_WC, on 18 July 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Let's talk about this again when you played about 200 or so matches.
I can show exceptional matches with any tank as well - the problem with t-54 is in the long run.
And you misunderstood me. I didn't say the t-54 is bad. I'm saying it's much worse than any other t9 medium. Those are two different things.

Nope, i didn't misunderstand you. I know what you wrote. My point is that i honestly don't think T-54 is the worst tier 9 medium. As you know more than well some tanks are better than others at certain tanks. Ie. you can't play the E-50 like the T-54, tried it many many times and it is hard when teaming up with ie. T-54s. T-54s strength lies in all means imho in its maneuverability (and as i said similar stats for the gun as for the E-50 105/52). It's really small and agile, while the E-50 is faster but also A LOT bigger and definitely more sluggish.

Patton feels like a hybrid, and is imho the best tier 9MT since it is allround. BatChat (firepower and speed, can't even withstand a wet-fart though. Gets penetrated by a BB-gun) and T-54 comes in close behind. I would actually rate the E-50 as worst T9MT, which doesn't mean it's "bad". It lacks in firepower for sniping, which also feels kind of pointless for a fast medium tank. But it can't take head-on battles well at all. Lacks in firepower, and also hasn't got the maneuverability needed for circling. Sure, it works ok in wolf-packs but in my experience it tends to get taken out first due to it's mere size.

Finally, yes, you are correct. As i said it isn't really fair for me to compare T-54 with ie. E-50 since i lack in battles. But, i can honestly tell pretty fast (and learn how to drive it) after over 10k battles if a tank is good or not. Somehow it is for certain an indicator of something if i got "decent" stats with a tank that isn't even elited yet.

Only problem i've got with the T-54 is as i said earlier the extremely fragile ammorack, had several battles where it has been one-shot taken out, instantly repaired it and then destroyed again a few seconds later. If you manage to go "frontal" with it, angeling it slightly and showing tracks (which can soak up dmg like hell) you can soak- and ding a lot of shots.

Basardius #54 Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:50 PM

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T-54 =
Posted Image

End of story.

Zenith #55 Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:54 PM

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View PostJ_Pershing, on 18 July 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

T-54 =
Posted Image

End of story.

If played incorrectly, then yes. If played properly, then no. I still see plenty of T-54s making a fine mess of the opposition, more so than the E-50 in any case.

Basardius #56 Posted 19 July 2012 - 12:29 AM

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View PostZenith, on 18 July 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

If played incorrectly, then yes. If played properly, then no. I still see plenty of T-54s making a fine mess of the opposition, more so than the E-50 in any case.

Stats dont lie m8, take a look at snips latest stats on the mediums. T-54 is right at the bottem by a 2% difference by the 2nd lowest.

I can play the T-54 like a boss. The matter is that the T-54 is too under powered compaired to the others.

Anyone can play any tank really well. like I do in my KV-5 and that is underpowered on the global win ratio. Hell im sure people play the M3 lee like a boss and the DB like a shit out the steamer. But that does not prove the fact that the tank is fine.

Edited by J_Pershing, 19 July 2012 - 12:34 AM.


Malakhi75 #57 Posted 19 July 2012 - 12:58 AM

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View PostAnthoniusii, on 17 July 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Someone said..You get more money depending on the damage to cause...
Today fight.
I was the only med in a battle facing IS-4.
Some will say "don't face it ahead" ...right so i runed at its sides and start shoting with this WONDERFULL D-54
that failed to penetrate IS-4's sides!!!!!!!!!!
Of course IS-4 killed me with two shots!
So what profit will i get?
If i have a tier 9 tank that HAS NOT gun that can help me survive (i am not talking about the tank's armor etc)
then what is the point of having that tank? Simply because it looks nice???
Why WG han not published a video about the proper use of tier 9 meds like it did for the french tds?
Maybe becuase it can not make such a guide because in the same time players would understand that everything is a lie?

If you were able to get up close to an IS4, how on earth did he even get his gun aimed on you?

Anthoniusii #58 Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:52 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 18 July 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

You forgot the part about not getting in front of it's gun.
Yea next time i will play i will shout...do not aim me with your guns untill i will kill you! :D

View PostJ_Pershing, on 18 July 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

T-54 =
Posted Image

End of story.
That's the most accurate picture  about T-54...ever saw!+rep!

Arallaw #59 Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:26 AM

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I think the T-54 is still the most handy multipurpose medium tank in T9. Just don't use it as OP charger but a in more tactical ways.

Lord_WC #60 Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:08 AM

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View PostcaptainInsano, on 18 July 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Nope, i didn't misunderstand you. I know what you wrote. My point is that i honestly don't think T-54 is the worst tier 9 medium. As you know more than well some tanks are better than others at certain tanks. Ie. you can't play the E-50 like the T-54, tried it many many times and it is hard when teaming up with ie. T-54s. T-54s strength lies in all means imho in its maneuverability (and as i said similar stats for the gun as for the E-50 105/52). It's really small and agile, while the E-50 is faster but also A LOT bigger and definitely more sluggish.

Problem is that maneuverability is only useful if an opponent does you the favor of fighting you in the middle of an airfield. Otherwise sadly you won't have the gun depression to shoot at him. T-54 is not small. Just try to compare it to an is3-4 or is7. They nerfed the height of it several times - by far over its original dimensions.

Problem is t-54 is good at one thing (moving around) which it doesn't need. You are great, you can move to flank someone and then... what exactly? You still have the worst dpm and accuracy from all the t9s and you don't have the armor to brawl. Only thing you're actually good at is noob bashing. It performs rather well against idiots, that's all.

Have no mistake, t54 is the weakest t9 med. If you like it, more power to you, but as I said, come back in 200 matches or so and we can continue when you actually know what that tank is capable of (or rather what other t9s are capable of and how you fall short in all those things you are supposed to do).




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