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Just looking at the current proposed changes I feel on the quest for good game balance that tanks are losing their identity and character, for example, the Soviet T-28 is losing it's big 85mm gun in the name of game balance, but the big gun is what made it have that fun factor, yes probably overpowered for that tank but don't take away the one thing that made it special.

I'm not against game balancing, this is a vital part to any game that has different classes/nations but you still need to keep those random special tanks there, otherwise your tech tree is far too progressive and clean cut; it'll become boring, it will literally come down to who has the biggest tier tank.

Currently I keep some of my tanks for fun value, like my SU-85, but now it's losing it's big gun it becomes like any other tank destroyer so I'll sell it. Just don't forget the fun side to the tanks you're changing, when you propose a change make sure you're trying to make them unique still.

SU85 could pretty much two shot anything in its own tier,but it could use a armour and accuracy buff to compensate.

Having some tanks better as others can add a nice touch to the game I think. If every tank is average the game becomes bland and there is less of a reward to move up trees or towards certain tanks.

I can however understand lots of players raging when they get insta-killed by the T-28 or SU-85 and that not being fun as well.

The 85mm on the T-28 and the 107mm on the SU-85 were the only reasons I kept mine, but I'll probably sell them now as I expect the "fun" factor to drop with the removal of these guns.

Can we please have a normal discussion and not neg-rep someone if he expresses his personal opinion? It's not polite.

Cobra 6

Actually I'm also annoyed by devs screwing here and pimping there all the time. Obviously it's the thing they just like the most, spend most of their time at it, and that's why tank characteristics are the component in the game that's changed the most. Highest priority. As if the game in general was already good enough.

Worst aspect of it - they're not even good at it. And we the players are cash cows and guinea pigs at the same time for their favourite hobby.

Yeah. Most important thing are BIRDS. Nothing else to do.

I can understand the SU-85 nerf, support it even. In my stug, a same tier TD, my health will plummet from 100% to 1-5% from a single Su-85 shot. Not to mention many tanks in the SU-85's MM will not survive even a single shot. That aint right. As for character, it will change the SU-85 easy mode towards a more down to earth TD.

WG also makes alot of balancing changes that I dont understand however.

(edit; sure negrep me. you know its true )
Edited by Marlekin, 21 July 2012 - 01:20 AM.

If this game was more "historically faithful", then every match would have German tanks be 2 tiers higher than all the other nations, the French tanks wouldn't exist, and American turreted tank destroyers would have turrets that turn like the turrets of medium tanks. Point is, war is almost never balanced, but this is a video game, and balance is a critical necessity.

You should differenciate between "uniqueness" and "I can oneshot everything!". A massively overpowered gun doesn't make a tank unique, it just makes it imbalanced.
If you want to play unique tanks, play turreted TDs/arties or sth like the Lee. ;)

maybe it makes them imbalanced but that is allso where the fun allways is.

seems this is 1 of a few steps wg is doing to remove the "glasscannons" from the game.

uniqeuness in the form of maintaining a nations offensive speciality. german accuracy and high pen guns, soviet massive damage and relative high speeds at the cost of inaccuracy, french revolvers on tracked tincans and US ironheads and massive gundepression and relatively high RoF.

the only fading line is the german line. as I don't really considder the 128mm and 150mm gun accurate or high pen. and the E-50's top gun is only marginally more accurate compared to the quite capable precision of the other nations. the only specialty that remains is its marginally higher hitpiont count

 Trilandian, on 20 July 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

But you must also remember that there would be 4 or 5 US or USSR tanks per German tank, and the US tanks in particular would have massive amounts of air support and an advantage mechanically (i.e. reliability).

 spacedskunk, on 20 July 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

So basically you found playing OP tanks fun? Cry me a river. Man up.

Almost as bad as the people with hundreds of battles in the Marder 2!

 conductiv, on 21 July 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

It has however much better depression than the T-54 since it has pretty none-existent depression but worse than the Patton

Cobra 6

 Cobra6, on 20 July 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

+1

 Trilandian, on 20 July 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

And run out of gas after 3 minutes ;-)

 Jigabachi, on 20 July 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

One single factor cannot make anything "unbalanced". Thats why its called a "balance": You have two things that balance (or not) each other.
One side is the OP gun - the other side? In case of T-28 it is TierXish targetarea, TierII armor, typical soviet gun depression (none) and lack of signal range (which I consider quite a lot, regarding the fact that the gun is only OP in the alpha and pen department, but average in DPM, quite bad in terms of precision and downright abysmal at aimtime. Which is an important factor when facing quick tanks, as is common at tier4). On the SU-85 it is inexistent view range (nice gun, but unless their is teamwork -LOL- nothing to aim it at) and medicore mobility and, of course, gun depression (okay - I think that one a bit highpowered as well, though I certainly didn't like it).

However, I think the threadstarter does not want to reheat the balanced/unbalanced whining, but to talk about uniqueness. And I fully agree with him:
Wargaming is systematically destroying WoT diversity, creating pure boredom.

The Tier4 tank with most pronounced advantages/disadvantages? T-28 F30. Goging to be killed
The most splitsided Premium? KV-5. Going to be eliminated
The most special TD? MarderII. Going to have its special view range ridiculed.
The most looked upon light? T-50-2. Probably not going to be replaced for no reason at all.
The most renowed low-tier Heavy? KV. Dead.
The most tricky high-tier Heavy? T30. Completely remodelded and reclassified.
The tank so iconic, it even featured in the trailer? Maus. Nerfed to oblivion.

As said, this is not about balanced. As balance is a two-aspect consideration you can always restore balance in (at least) two ways: Removing advantages or reinforcing disadvatanges.
The later one gets you a higly diverse playstyle. E.G. reduce Marders hitpoints&armour so far, that it can be oneshotted by any tier3 tank (or even some tier2 with HE - there is no way to protect ammo in such an open put-on-top design). But let him his first shot.
The former one, removing the advantages that made a tank special (and probably even buffing his weaknesses - as the armour & prescision buff just suggested for Su-85...), gives all tanks the average capabilities. This is it, what wargaming is doing and it will end with a game, were all tanks are more or less equal and only carry different skins.
I probably will have stopped playing this once sound concept long before this day arrives :(


Btw: related thread
http://forum.worldof...ne-time-premium

the issue here, really is that for quite some time the Soviet tree had quite a few huge advantages. Take the KV1, KV3, SU85, IS4 and so on as example. I am not calling all of them "over powered", except for the KV1 with 107mm gun on Tier5. That was a beast.

Now many of those lets call it mistakes get corrected. And naturally people see that as problem. But seriously. Try to see the picture from a different angle as well.

I consider things to be much more even now in the lower tiers. Particularly with the KV2 as Tier6 and the KV3 as tier7. A position where they really belong. And the SU can be still quite usefull even with an 85mm gun considering the fact that 85mm still has more damgae then 75mm like with the Stug. You just will not be able to almost oneshoot tier 4 and criple tier5 anymore.

I love how people are crying, when their toys gets nerfed. SU-85 will still have a better gun than Stug and T-28 was OP with that gun in TIER 4. Don't cry, just look at tanks in the same tier. Fixed some neg reps, but it seems fan-boys are already hit hard.

 Yag0, on 21 July 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Thanks!

Of course the change in MM battle tiers will have all sorts of interesting and mostly, I suspect, unforeseen consequences. I wouldn't sell that SU85 quite yet!

 3Form, on 21 July 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Whats wrong with that? A Ferrary F40 is certainly OP compared to a FIAT 500, however it's way more fun to drive. Unless you are masochistic.

After all, almost every tank in the right hands is OP. Any tank that accumulates hundreds or thousands  of battles is certainly op, because crew is stacked with skills & perks.

 3Form, on 21 July 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Can you please explain why hundreds of battles in Marder 2 is bad?, Do you really think that hundreds of battles in Sherman (or any other randomly chosen tank) is better? Let people play the tanks they like, there is nothing bad about that, and certainly it's not a reason to negrep them.

If playing tanks that people likes or that some consider OP was a bad thing, they will not be offered by WG and we will all be driving AMX 40