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Gun rammer slow vs fast firing


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Chromenut #1 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:44 PM

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Some of you say that a gun rammer is useless on a fast firing gun compared to slow firing gun..
for example

[no rammer] gun (#1) 12 Rpm 200 dmg = 2400 dpm rld speed 5 secs
[no rammer] gun (#2) 4 Rpm 600 dmg = 2400 dpm rld speed 15s

[rammer] gun (#1) 13.2 Rpm 200 dmg = 2640 dpm rld speed 4.5 secs
[rammer] gun (#2) 4.4 Rpm 600 dmg = 2640 dpm rld speed 13.5s

so my question is why wouldnt you put a rammer to a fast firing gun?
sure you dont get much off from the reload speed but its still 10% more DPM no matter what gun

DenySpark #2 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:47 PM

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From what I know...the stats shown in the garage are the stats with the gun for 100% crew + rammer + ventilation..or something like that...Ain't that true?

TekumzeWolf #3 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:48 PM

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View PostChromenut, on 30 July 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Some of you say that a gun rammer is useless on a fast firing gun compared to slow firing gun..
for example

[no rammer] gun (#1) 12 Rpm 200 dmg = 2400 dpm rld speed 5 secs
[no rammer] gun (#2) 4 Rpm 600 dmg = 2400 dpm rld speed 15s

[rammer] gun (#1) 13.2 Rpm 200 dmg = 2640 dpm rld speed 4.5 secs
[rammer] gun (#2) 4.4 Rpm 600 dmg = 2640 dpm rld speed 13.5s

so my question is why wouldnt you put a rammer to a fast firing gun?
sure you dont get much off from the reload speed but its still 10% more DPM no matter what gun
On a fast firing tank the problem is that even without a rammer the gun reloads so fast that aiming circle can't keep up.
The end result is that by using that extra speed you tend to bounce more as the shots get wildly inaccurate.

In those cases it is probably better to mount an enhanced gun laying drive instead.
The raw DPM is lower but the effective DPM is actually higher. That's unless you're shooting while being next to the tank and you can't really miss.

T-34 is a good example

Edited by TekumzeWolf, 30 July 2012 - 01:50 PM.


BimBam #4 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:50 PM

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View PostTekumzeWolf, on 30 July 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

On a fast firing tank the problem is that even without a rammer the gun reloads so fast that aiming circle can't keep up.
The end result is that by using that extra speed you tend to bounce more as the shots get wildly inaccurate.

In those cases it is probably better to mount an enhanced gun laying drive.

T-34 is a good only example


Listy #5 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:51 PM

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Because I found with my Churchill (and other 6Lb's) The recoil caused dispersion hadn't settled by the time the new round was up the spout. Meaning there was a tendency to fire it off early. Resulting in a badly aimed shot. And as we know a badly aimed shot is normally wasted.
When you're up close and personal then the chance of hitting a well slopped bit of armour from the huge dispersion is always a risk.

I found my performance went up a lot when I stripped off the rammer and put Coated optics in its place.

TekumzeWolf #6 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:52 PM

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View PostBimBam, on 30 July 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

...
Are we forgetting the KV-1,T-28, T82 and Renault UE57? That's me naming just the tanks I own and know about.

Edited by TekumzeWolf, 30 July 2012 - 01:54 PM.


Darzok #7 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:53 PM

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You can never have a the gun reload to fast.

bravotango #8 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:55 PM

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High ROF is only good, if you use a scout for example. In those, you probably shooting the target from 10-30m, while circling it. On the other hand on Churchill it's useless, because you have to aim too, as someone already said. Not to mention, if I have a tank with high ROF, I would probably get something else instead of the rammer.

Tyutyu #9 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:56 PM

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Rammer is great for the IS tanks starting from the KV1-S line. Those guns are a pain to reload and the damage will be dealt from up close and personal. Not much aiming required against softer targets. Sure you will need to aim for that Lowe or Tiger 2 turret cupola, but my performance got better with rammer on slow firing tanks.

Yes on fast firing tanks rammer is a waste of module space. Aimtime is slow compared to reload time. You are better off with EGLD or Coated optics etc.

Schnurx #10 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:56 PM

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I have installed the Rammer in the Churchill. As others have written, due to the comparably slow aiming time, the firing rate can not be fully utilized in most situations. Adding the gun laying drive did help with that, though. Both in combination add (for the churchill) a nice additional punch.

elektrizikekswerk #11 Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:57 PM

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View PostDenySpark, on 30 July 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

From what I know...the stats shown in the garage are the stats with the gun for 100% crew + rammer + ventilation..or something like that...Ain't that true?
No. They used to be the stats for a 133,333333%-Crew until 7.1 or something.
Now the stats in garage are for 100% crew without any bonus.

/edit: @Topic:
I have a rammer in any tank if possible.
Especially in 1vs1 situations it can be the difference between victoyr and defeat.

Panocek #12 Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:04 PM

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Even in case of new Patton M48 rammer trims about half of a second. Enough to make a difference. And for those extreme RoF cases, V.Stab is better option than rammer, which is unavailable anyway (excluding T6 Shermans, though they don't achieve such reload times).

grayfoxCode #13 Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:05 PM

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I can't think of many tanks that aim that much slower than the reload. The only tanks I ever had this problem on wa the high tier French tanks with auto loaders. I use gun rammer on everything I can except scout. If you having problems with aiming time make sure you have 100% crew and put a gun laying drive on.

harry_monkley #14 Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:06 PM

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Rammer works well on the Churchill IMHO, but it is situational and you only get the full benefit from it in close quarters combat where you can utilise the full DPM without misses or bounces. On the other hand, I don't think that long range duels are a good idea in the Churchill vs other tier 5s or the tier 3/4 TDs regardless of what equipment you choose.

DriveBy #15 Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:06 PM

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Rammer is must-have on nearly every tank, no matter if it's E-100's BFG or rapid-firing pew-pew M1A2 on Easy8. Only tanks that I don't mount rammer on are scouts which have more important priorities than firepower. RoF saves life, makes money and leads to victory.

TekumzeWolf #16 Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:12 PM

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View PostDriveBy, on 30 July 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Rammer is must-have on nearly every tank, no matter if it's E-100's BFG or rapid-firing pew-pew M1A2 on Easy8. Only tanks that I don't mount rammer on are scouts which have more important priorities than firepower. RoF saves life, makes money and leads to victory.
If I utilize full DPM on T-34 from further then 15 meters I tend to miss half of the shots. That's without the rammer.
95% of the time I need to force myself to wait for the circle to shrink again so I can actually hit what I am aiming for.

Fluffyman9 #17 Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:15 PM

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About your example:

[rammer] gun (#1) 13.2 Rpm 200 dmg = 2640 dpm rld speed 4.5 secs
[rammer] gun (#2) 4.4 Rpm 600 dmg = 2640 dpm rld speed 13.5s

You only counted the advantage for one shot. In the 13,5s of the big gun the smaller gun can shoot 3 times,without rammer it would be only 2 times.
So for the DPM it boils down to the same thing but for DPS a bigger gun gives a bigger advantage, yes.

Speedtouch #18 Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:39 PM

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Well I found the above to be true. Where the rammers less advantage to fast guns but my my experiences fight the same tank type the faster gun can rock the other tank just before they fire making them miss. Plus fast firing guns has confusion fear factor I think.

Chromenut #19 Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:48 PM

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I personally use Gunrammer on Churchill/T49/t-34-85 i would use it on my IS but it costs 500k...

Boendal #20 Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:50 PM

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View PostChromenut, on 30 July 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Some of you say that a gun rammer is useless on a fast firing gun compared to slow firing gun..
for example

[no rammer] gun (#1) 12 Rpm 200 dmg = 2400 dpm rld speed 5 secs
[no rammer] gun (#2) 4 Rpm 600 dmg = 2400 dpm rld speed 15s

[rammer] gun (#1) 13.2 Rpm 200 dmg = 2640 dpm rld speed 4.5 secs
[rammer] gun (#2) 4.4 Rpm 600 dmg = 2640 dpm rld speed 13.5s

so my question is why wouldnt you put a rammer to a fast firing gun?
sure you dont get much off from the reload speed but its still 10% more DPM no matter what gun

because DPM is not the most important thing, since you cant just stand in the open and trade shots with your slower firing enemy...still rammer is usually very useful even for faster firing guns...

Edited by Boendal, 30 July 2012 - 02:50 PM.