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The lorraine 40T is dead, and worthless now [7.5]


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john1953 #21 Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:27 PM

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Tend to echo what has been said before.
Pre 7.5 I was using the stock engine holding on to my XP to use after the patch. Post patch immediately purchased the top engine. From previous seeing decent improvement in speed which is positive.
The re-loading speed is also a plus point.
Now for the downside.
While we all know that the Lorraine is paper thin and could be damaged by lower tiers the fact the tank has moved up a tier means that the number  of powerful tanks and guns it is fighting against has increased.
I am frequently in position one or two and look at the opposition team lists and see M103, M46 Patton, ST1, IS8, !S3, IS4 IS7 T54, E75, Maus, E100 Jagtiger, Ferdinand against us. While obviously the aforementioned tanks are also on our side unless you can isolate one of the tanks on its own, very difficult, you will most likely be zapped in 1/3 shots.
Again from a different perspective their is an expectation from your team mates that you should lead from the front which is a tactic guaranteed to bring an early demise.
I know that most of the French lights and mediums are very situational and require to be played in a certain manner but I feel, could be wrong, that since the patch the survival rate of the Lorrain will have fallen.

tapian #22 Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:51 PM

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I don't consider the Lorry a tank. This is a truck with a gun. I can't name any other vehicle in the game that is so vulnerable in it's tier like this, One wrong turn, one unlucky corner check, one good artillery shell can be (and more often than not) your doom. I don't say the lorry is a bad tank (but not a good one either), but maaan you have to be a carefull son of a b**ch with it. Imo it needs more skill than any other tank i've driven so far. Though I tend to like it in some matches, it doesn't really feel like a tier 9 tank. Very situational like the other french tanks, but hell it dies quickly.

Amphiskios #23 Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:09 PM

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Now it's true that I'm not the best player around, but since the tier change the winrate of my Lorraine has dropped sharply. My pre-7.5 winrate was 58%, in recent days it has dropped below 50%. The faster reload is nice, but the Lorraine's grenades penetrate less now. And of course it's still true that pretty much any tank has no problem penetrating your armour, which means that any grenade that hits you usually does maximum damage. Despite the fact that the Lorraine díd get more armour points, it still dies as soon as you make the mistake of being seen by the enemy. If you're not a player with an average winrate of over 60%, the Lorraine is a rather difficult tank to play. I mean, the thing is as big as the AMX 50 100 heavy tank and simply cannot be played in the same way as the more versatile and way better armoured tier IX medium tanks of the other nations. You'll just have to improvise, I usually try to snipe with the tank as if it is a tank destroyer.

Legault #24 Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:33 PM

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Stock lorraine gets a lot better mobility anyway, since you start with the engine that used to be the 2nd (3rd if stock included).


And I don't get why people consider this tank so bad. I started playing it in 7.4 with 100% crew, vents, optics and EGLD, completely stock other than the radio. I managed over 700 xp and around 1400-1500 damage per battle. It was slow and had awful penetration (and awful reload for such a weak gun), but it was alright. When 7.5 hit I unlocked the gun with the free XP gotten from modules removed on other tanks and I got my XP and damage per battle to 831 and 1903, respectively. I don't have the engine yet and it's already amazing. Don't have crew skills yet either, since I decided to start with BiA and it's 69% only. I can't wait to get the engine, since it'll be even faster...

SteelyD #25 Posted 04 August 2012 - 12:18 AM

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View PostLegault, on 03 August 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Stock lorraine gets a lot better mobility anyway, since you start with the engine that used to be the 2nd (3rd if stock included).


And I don't get why people consider this tank so bad. I started playing it in 7.4 with 100% crew, vents, optics and EGLD, completely stock other than the radio. I managed over 700 xp and around 1400-1500 damage per battle. It was slow and had awful penetration (and awful reload for such a weak gun), but it was alright. When 7.5 hit I unlocked the gun with the free XP gotten from modules removed on other tanks and I got my XP and damage per battle to 831 and 1903, respectively. I don't have the engine yet and it's already amazing. Don't have crew skills yet either, since I decided to start with BiA and it's 69% only. I can't wait to get the engine, since it'll be even faster...
The Lorry is much less mobile than the BatChat that it replaces. And that's why it's a nerf. EVERY stat was better on the BatChat, so this is a big nerf to a tank that didn't deserve a nerf. It's just WG doing the usual post-patch nerfing of old vehicles.
You know how it works. WG introduces new awesome tanks. Everyone gets excited and buys gold/free XP to get it asap, then after a while WG satrts nerfing it when the first excitement has cooled down. The Lorraine was already nerfred once, and now again they make it a much worse tank in its tier.
The same will happen in a month with the new tier 10 TD's and mediums.
New tanks rule (but you have to buy gold/free XP to get them soon enough before the nerf everyone knows is coming.

It gets boring after a while.

Btw, your win ratio with the Lorry is 54. That's the same win ratio I have overall, so it can't be THAT awesome for you...

Legault #26 Posted 04 August 2012 - 02:30 AM

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View PostSteelyD, on 04 August 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

The Lorry is much less mobile than the BatChat that it replaces. And that's why it's a nerf. EVERY stat was better on the BatChat, so this is a big nerf to a tank that didn't deserve a nerf. It's just WG doing the usual post-patch nerfing of old vehicles.
You know how it works. WG introduces new awesome tanks. Everyone gets excited and buys gold/free XP to get it asap, then after a while WG satrts nerfing it when the first excitement has cooled down. The Lorraine was already nerfred once, and now again they make it a much worse tank in its tier.
The same will happen in a month with the new tier 10 TD's and mediums.
New tanks rule (but you have to buy gold/free XP to get them soon enough before the nerf everyone knows is coming.

It gets boring after a while.

Btw, your win ratio with the Lorry is 54. That's the same win ratio I have overall, so it can't be THAT awesome for you...
Uh, why would you compare it to the batchat? The fact that they were moved one tier upwards says enough about their performance? Or were you completely blind to the fact that the batchat was by far the best tier 9 medium?


No, it's not a bad tier 9. Not even close. I do more damage per match in it than in my T-54, and it's a LOT easier to penetrate tanks. Took me over 300 battles to get the avg dmg per battle of the T-54 over 1800... took me 46 battles to get the lorraine to 1900... almost half of them stock @ 7.4. And I'm still getting to know the tank + I need the last engine. Bad? Really?


And winrate means f*** all, especially with such low battles. 20 of them were driven as stock @ tier 8. Also team dependant, though the lorraine is very capable of affecting the battle by simply murdering one tank as soon as it's spotted. Watching an AMX spot a ST-I and straight up killing the guy without him even being able to see you? lol.

seahawk #27 Posted 04 August 2012 - 06:23 PM

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I think the Lorraine was hit bad. Facing many Tier X it is unable to use its strenght, as it is a 2 shot victim for the Tier X TDs and the static paly style in those matches means there is rarely an opening you can exploit.

SteelyD #28 Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:02 PM

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View PostLegault, on 04 August 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

Uh, why would you compare it to the batchat? The fact that they were moved one tier upwards says enough about their performance? Or were you completely blind to the fact that the batchat was by far the best tier 9 medium?


No, it's not a bad tier 9. Not even close. I do more damage per match in it than in my T-54, and it's a LOT easier to penetrate tanks. Took me over 300 battles to get the avg dmg per battle of the T-54 over 1800... took me 46 battles to get the lorraine to 1900... almost half of them stock @ 7.4. And I'm still getting to know the tank + I need the last engine. Bad? Really?


And winrate means f*** all, especially with such low battles. 20 of them were driven as stock @ tier 8. Also team dependant, though the lorraine is very capable of affecting the battle by simply murdering one tank as soon as it's spotted. Watching an AMX spot a ST-I and straight up killing the guy without him even being able to see you? lol.
I compare it to the BatChat because that's what it replaces. And the BatChat is a much better tank in every way, in every statistic. So it's a big nerf.

You're saying you're doing better in the Lorry than in a T54? The T54 is known to be a bad tank. In dire need of a buff, especially with all the new Tier X mediums, it's hopelessly outdated.
The Lorraine just doesn't belong in Tier 9, it was already just "ok" in tier 8, I never saw anyone owning back when it was a tier 8 tank, it usually did damage, then got killed very fast. In the 11000 battles I've had, none had so many weaknesses as it has, not at the higher tiers anyway. But it was still nice with a good gun, for it's tier. Now it's been tier-nerfed to death, as happens to most tanks a few months after release.

Waffle_Pepper #29 Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:13 PM

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I think wargaming is messing what glass canon is ......
Lorraine is too weak and it's firepower is not strong enough to compensate its weakness.
2nd point, going up with a tier is meaning facing stronger arty.

I know for sure that arety are obsessed with lorraine, they can OS that  tank if you have less that 1300hp........
OS a tier 9 .......
1300hp in a single blow.....

Nothing really compensate that

Legault #30 Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:05 PM

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View PostWaffle_Pepper, on 04 August 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

I think wargaming is messing what glass canon is ......
Lorraine is too weak and it's firepower is not strong enough to compensate its weakness.
2nd point, going up with a tier is meaning facing stronger arty.

I know for sure that arety are obsessed with lorraine, they can OS that  tank if you have less that 1300hp........
OS a tier 9 .......
1300hp in a single blow.....

Nothing really compensate that
How does it have low firepower if it can fire 1800 avg dmg in about 16 seconds? That's enough to take down a tier 9 heavy from 100% to 0-10%. It also has a very accurate gun, great penetration and it's very mobile. The size doesn't even matter in most cases. No problem with arty either... haven't been oneshot and haven't been hit that often. Just stay in arty safe places.

Waffle_Pepper #31 Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:14 PM

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View PostLegault, on 04 August 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

How does it have low firepower if it can fire 1800 avg dmg in about 16 seconds? That's enough to take down a tier 9 heavy from 100% to 0-10%. It also has a very accurate gun, great penetration and it's very mobile. The size doesn't even matter in most cases. No problem with arty either... haven't been oneshot and haven't been hit that often. Just stay in arty safe places.

Beeing out of arty range is not a mater ofgameplay  most of the time but a mater of field ...... American arty are really a pain for lorraine.
And I really wonder wow you can say that lorraine damage is really amazing  because it can deal 1800dmg in 16 sec....
you are talking about close range  with low aiming time  and expose yourself 16s on the battlefield mean dying.
Why talking about 6 shot when most of the time you can just shot 2 or 3 shot before getting hit ? And you know lorraine hate getting hit.
Like most of the time, it is wonderfull on paper but on the field it's not the same deal.

Edited by Waffle_Pepper, 04 August 2012 - 10:15 PM.


Legault #32 Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:21 PM

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View PostWaffle_Pepper, on 04 August 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

Beeing out of arty range is not a mater ofgameplay  most of the time but a mater of field ...... American arty are really a pain for lorraine.
And I really wonder wow you can say that lorraine damage is really amazing  because it can deal 1800dmg in 16 sec....
you are talking about close range  with low aiming time  and expose yourself 16s on the battlefield mean dying.
Why talking about 6 shot when most of the time you can just shot 2 or 3 shot before getting hit ? And you know lorraine hate getting hit.
Like most of the time, it is wonderfull on paper but on the field it's not the same deal.
Why are you in a position where you get hit? Shoot people in the side or support your team, don't try to be a hero.

Phooca #33 Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:32 PM

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View PostLegault, on 04 August 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

Why are you in a position where you get hit? Shoot people in the side or support your team, don't try to be a hero.

It's true he's a jackass to platoon with , always leaving me hanging " sorry cant step infront of that JagE100 I'm in my lorry"

:Smile_trollface-3:   *may not be a real quote *



But yeah to anyone who things the Lorraine is Crap , well i think your crap , its awesome and I'll repeat my first post ,

Hang back at the start , sniped the flanks , once 6-8 tanks are dead , drive through the gaps and absolutely rape , and I mean from behind any solo tankers left , easy , 1200 xp min

Legault #34 Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:43 PM

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Last 2 games before signing off.

http://mwreplays.com/replayimg/9cbda38c7821abadb11e420c2fa73945.png
http://mwreplays.com/replayimg/20be1091ad4c89d9e5036a43f3b45e0d.png


Could've done better in the last one, but whatever. 4k dmg in both games. Thanks ot that my avg damage per battle is now over 2k. Bad tank? Yeah, sure. Please buff it more!


Oh, phooca, pls l2p e50 so we can platoon and grind for tier 10!

Edited by Legault, 04 August 2012 - 10:51 PM.


SteelyD #35 Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:54 AM

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View PostLegault, on 04 August 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

How does it have low firepower if it can fire 1800 avg dmg in about 16 seconds? That's enough to take down a tier 9 heavy from 100% to 0-10%. It also has a very accurate gun, great penetration and it's very mobile. The size doesn't even matter in most cases. No problem with arty either... haven't been oneshot and haven't been hit that often. Just stay in arty safe places.
It won't take out a tier 9 heavy with just one clip. Not unless he's already damaged. You're forgetting you're not really doing 1800 damage, you will have bounces, misses, and even those no-damage-penetration shots we all love so much. So you're basically just pissing him off, bringing attention to yourself, after which you're dead since one or two shots is enough to kill you, and you have no ammo for a long while while your clip is reloading.
The gun is not "very accurate", not even "accurate" at the long ranges it needs to fire at to not be exposed.
It does not have "great penetration" at those long ranges either, since the slower the shells travels, the more penetration power they lose. And the Lorry has the slowest shell travel of all the tier 9 mediums.
And the size matters in most cases.

Legault #36 Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:25 AM

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View PostSteelyD, on 05 August 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

It won't take out a tier 9 heavy with just one clip. Not unless he's already damaged. You're forgetting you're not really doing 1800 damage, you will have bounces, misses, and even those no-damage-penetration shots we all love so much. So you're basically just pissing him off, bringing attention to yourself, after which you're dead since one or two shots is enough to kill you, and you have no ammo for a long while while your clip is reloading.
The gun is not "very accurate", not even "accurate" at the long ranges it needs to fire at to not be exposed.
It does not have "great penetration" at those long ranges either, since the slower the shells travels, the more penetration power they lose. And the Lorry has the slowest shell travel of all the tier 9 mediums.
And the size matters in most cases.
- It can take out anything with less than 1800 HP, and slightly more if lucky. Some tanks with stock turret, amx120, is8 are at 1800-. All it takes is one shot from another tank or arty and the job is done. And I dont always bounce 1/6 either.
- If you're someone's main target you're probably doing it wrong, only situational where you should be is one where he won't do a lot of dmg (watch replays) or if you know you can just wipe the floor with him while only taking one shot in the process. If you die then that's your fault for being stupid.
- Again, watch the replay. I fired like 4 times at a tiny kv-13 and 3 shots hit, and that's pretty standard stuff. It's accurate.
- Yes it has good penetration. It's not APCR ammo. The travel time of the shells isn't significantly slower than other tier 9s, it's very easy to hit moving targets still. There's only a few tanks I have problems penetrating. From 400-500m half your shots going through is still 900 free dmg, and at closer ranges 4-6 will go through easily.

Gaylor_Swift #37 Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:11 AM

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While I have mixed feelings about the changes, my general sentiment is that it's equaly good now, if slightly worse in certain areas.

The gun buffs are great stuff, makes it feel much better now, both the shorter load time and the in magazine RoF. The survivability however has gone done somewhat, but in every battle so far I have been able to do some serious damage or even kill some tanks before dying, not the case in 7.4 but I don't mind it that much.

That said I agree with Legault, it's a great tank if you use it properly, which sadly most people don't, it takes a specific mindset of a vulture to play it to it's full extent, if you're overly aggressive or just plain stupid you won't live long in this tank or do good with it.

And I really wish they'd kept the 90mm on it, that was a very nice gun, mostly because it was able to make money like crazy, the 100mm is kinda expensive for what it does but I don't overly mind that, it looses less cash than the other T9 meds usually.

DeadC0ld #38 Posted 05 August 2012 - 12:00 PM

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gj ruining this useless box

taattis #39 Posted 05 August 2012 - 12:31 PM

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Maybe I am just lucky but I just one shot sixth Lorry on my M40/43 during this weekend.

Actually after looking at the stats tanking it is garbage, going to drop below 60% soon.

Edited by taattis, 05 August 2012 - 12:45 PM.


JCPershing #40 Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:23 PM

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I saw that replay on siegfried line and I guess we play a different game, if that was me:
-That panther 2 would have focused me instead the ferdi
-when you stood still hitting the t54, I would have been artied /both 13 90 and t54 would have rushed me
-Jtiger at the end would not have gone full retard and hit me also as I get near him
Etc

Examples like that almost on every match I do, where they see you approaching at full health having teammates they can kill on a single hit but they prefer to land a hit on you, feels like people lose IQ when they see a lorry, problem is it's' SO big that anything works
Or circling a tracked enemy with 4(yes, four) allied heavies standing still, guess who the arty oneshots, lame
Every single game I get so much hate without actually being able to not do much(1.7k dmg/match)

I love the playstyle but the mindset the people has it against it destroys it for me.

Edited by Tehoblivion, 05 August 2012 - 10:49 PM.





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