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VK2801 worth the free xp?


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Loofah #61 Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:24 PM

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View Postvlasterx, on 08 September 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Ok, now we are heading to normal conversation. When you act as a troll, when you show dissrespect, you will get a troll response every time.

I wrote before, this wasn't my only duel against t50-2. This match was just only one recorded on YT. When ever I meet them one on one, I usually win with this tank. There were some good players, there were some bad players, since this is normal for random games. I also know that some players don't know how to use full potential of some vehicle and then they come to forums crying that other one was... pick your response - noob, OP, lucky...

For ME, VK28 is a good scout and best scout hunter in game. And like I said, I experiment a lot with all tanks I drive and that means mediocre stats, but if you meet me 1 on 1 in a match in similar tanks, you will get a good dog fight ever time.
Well, you do realise that you have 55% overal WR? This means you SHOULD usually win duels. If you didn't, you would have lower WR> But your WR in this tank is worse than your average. If you experiment with all your tanks, why does this one get hit the most?
And BTW it's not like I don't experiment. At certain level we start looking for new tactics. Sometimes dumb and suicidial tactics, but some of them work better than expected. But we do this with all our tanks, so all of them should get a performance hit.

I have just driven T50-2 and VK2801 and to be honest, properly maneuvering T50-2 at 100m is almost impossible to hit because of how much lead do you have to take with 105mm gun and how inaccurate it is on the move. And swinging your turret to take the lead makes the dispersion even worse. Sometimes I get lucky and score a monster hit. But when I was driving T50-2 klling good players in VK2801 felt... like cheating, really, it's that easy. I could just auto-aim them to death thanks to very fast shells and waaay better accuracy on the move and better gun depression and better acceleration. I could start a fight on my terms, disengage if I wanted to, and very often that VK had to eventually stop and start turning on the spot to keep up, and then artillery just pounded it to death.

I have many succesful "duels" in VK too, I had battles where I have removed 2 T50-2s from the game, but they were never really playing good enough. If I met a guy like GehakteMolen, he would have surely beat me, because T50-2 has all the tools to slay VK2801. VK is a good passive scout, but damn, even E50M with optics can work as a bush scout. It can do active scouting, it's nice at harassing with HE at long range, but I just find Chaffee and T-50-2 much better and more fun.


Oh and you have started with trolling. You have accused me of making "excuses". I have posted numerous reasons why T-50-2 is IMO better, then you show up, post a SINGLE battle vs inferior player (really, check his stats) and all of the sudden this is a good argument? Even the worst failtank has its day :)

Edited by Loofah, 08 September 2012 - 01:26 PM.


vlasterx #62 Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:35 PM

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View PostLoofah, on 08 September 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

Well, you do realise that you have 55% overal WR? This means you SHOULD usually win duels. If you didn't, you would have lower WR> But your WR in this tank is worse than your average. If you experiment with all your tanks, why does this one get hit the most?
And BTW it's not like I don't experiment. At certain level we start looking for new tactics. Sometimes dumb and suicidial tactics, but some of them work better than expected. But we do this with all our tanks, so all of them should get a performance hit.

I wrote already - too many experiments with this tank. One of the tanks I drove the most. It took too much time to upgrade it on non premium account, 3-4 complete crew skill respec, 3-4 completely new modules, going from suicide scout to passive scout to active scout to harasser to scout hunter... I tried it all ;) and in all cases I managed to get the upper hand in duels against t50-2's.

Like someone said - it's not about tank, it's about a driver behind it.

vlasterx #63 Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:27 PM

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And I just thought that you can be reasonable, but then you edited your post and it turned out you prefere to hide behind internet anonymity and to provocate other players like me. But I don't blame you since you have a lot more growing up to do.

Enjoy your russian scout. If we meet in game, I will crush it like a bug that it is :*

P.s. But I know that that won't teach you a thing since you will pin it to luck, like every other kid in game does.

Lancasthor #64 Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:26 PM

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I think we are barking at the wrong tree here.
As far as i know, purpose of scouts are supportive and contributive to the team. Not a pre-fight skirmish vs enemy scout on the middle field.

Usual situation where im after enemy scout with my own happens on my side of the field. And that already means that enemy player has made a desperate decision to run for the arty.. or some other tactical plan. Driving after 50-2 in such case has nothing to do with a clean duel, they.. or you .. are too busy to dodge everything else. I suppose this explains why all of us claim that "I have destroyed more XXXX in YYYY than being killed by one."

Bottom line...  Dueling capability vs equally fast target is actually a minor fraction of the needed potential of a good teamplayer scout. We shouldn't argue about scenario what happens once in a 250 matches.

Tazilon #65 Posted 09 September 2012 - 03:35 AM

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View PostLoofah, on 08 September 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

So you're performing pretty damn bad in VK2801, yet claim it's awesome. OK, and you're telling me I'm making excuses, and not you with your single goddamn performance vs inferior player (checked his stats).
Really, you're  trolling or dumb or just can't comprehend what you're reading. And as I've said - I'm more succesful in VK2801 than you, have more battles in it, yet I'm claiming it's not that good. If that doesn't ring a bell in your head, nothing will. Keep believing that 1 battle is more important than your overal bad performance with this tank.

And as I've said: I have beaten IS7 with E75. That is just as good argument that E75 is better than IS7 as your SINGLE victory over worse player in T-50-2 is a proof that VK2801 is better. THINK!

And thanks for -rep kiddo. Gave you some of it too.

And back when Tank Tracker was working (so it was easy to track) I carried far higher WRs than yours for 1000-1500 battles in a row and I am telling YOU that the VK-2801 is better overall than the T-50-2.  That still isn't the point.  The OP asked if the 2801 was worth free XP.  If you desire to spend free XP, ANY of the 3 Tier V Scouts (Cougar, Chaffee, T-50-2) are worth getting.  

If you want to active scout, get the T-50-2.
If you want to start a battle slow and finish strong, get the Chaffee.
If you want to excel at everything except Banzai Rushes, get the Cougar.

Loofah #66 Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:48 AM

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View PostTazilon, on 09 September 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

And back when Tank Tracker was working (so it was easy to track) I carried far higher WRs than yours for 1000-1500 battles in a row and I am telling YOU that the VK-2801 is better overall than the T-50-2.  That still isn't the point.  The OP asked if the 2801 was worth free XP.  If you desire to spend free XP, ANY of the 3 Tier V Scouts (Cougar, Chaffee, T-50-2) are worth getting.  

If you want to active scout, get the T-50-2.
If you want to start a battle slow and finish strong, get the Chaffee.
If you want to excel at everything except Banzai Rushes, get the Cougar.

Well, yeah, and then you got older, slower and...?  Really, Taz, you don't have to use this kind of arguments. . Also, pre 0.7 I wouldn't be surprised if some people had 70%  WR, because E100 took 180 damage to the turret front on regular basis, sweet good old times. I'm just quite happy with my own performance, and you should be happy too with yours, because other people fully respect your opinion about VK (not everyone of course :Smile_smile: ).

Anyway, what is your point? That single battle argument was good, and my argument was wrong? How about you accept that not everyone has to love your Fatass and that maybe (just maybe) it's not really the best tank in the world.
However, in 0.8 Chaffee and T50-2 lose some of their gun performance and VK2801 gets even faster downhill compared to Chaffee, so IMO, gunwise it'll finally land above T-50-2 and yeah, maybe it'll finally be OK compared to those 2 even from my point of view.

Edited by Loofah, 09 September 2012 - 11:04 AM.


Tazilon #67 Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:04 PM

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View PostLoofah, on 09 September 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Well, yeah, and then you got older, slower and...?  Really, Taz, you don't have to use this kind of arguments. . Also, pre 0.7 I wouldn't be surprised if some people had 70%  WR, because E100 took 180 damage to the turret front on regular basis, sweet good old times. I'm just quite happy with my own performance, and you should be happy too with yours, because other people fully respect your opinion about VK (not everyone of course :Smile_smile: ).

Anyway, what is your point? That single battle argument was good, and my argument was wrong? How about you accept that not everyone has to love your Fatass and that maybe (just maybe) it's not really the best tank in the world.
However, in 0.8 Chaffee and T50-2 lose some of their gun performance and VK2801 gets even faster downhill compared to Chaffee, so IMO, gunwise it'll finally land above T-50-2 and yeah, maybe it'll finally be OK compared to those 2 even from my point of view.

No, not at all.  The majority of my battles have come after the HE nerf and my WR and Eff Rating have steadily gone up, although they have plateaued for awhile with 7.5.   It seems, I cold simply reverse everything you've just said around on the T-50-2.  both are opinions - which is what the OP asked for with his question - is the 2801 worth it for free XP?  Yes, it is.   Unless my reading comprehension is WAY off, the OP did not ask "Is the 2801 better than other tanks?"  They asked "Is the 2801 worth free XP?"

Why you insist on changing the question is beyond me.  the simple answer is "Yes, if you want to spend free XP on a tank, the Cougar IS worth it."  And now with you on record as saying in 8.0 you think its gun may exceed the gun of the T-50-2, you really should agree.

Edited by Tazilon, 09 September 2012 - 09:06 PM.


Sebi411 #68 Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:05 PM

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i made a lot of battles in leopard&Vk2801, i like the leo more

TheKroo #69 Posted 09 September 2012 - 11:05 PM

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Fellow tankers,

Please keep the discussion at level.

There is no need to go personal or into trolling.

You do not have to agree with other users' opinion but please respect his right to have an independent opinion.

vlasterx #70 Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:33 AM

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So I guess the "trolling" is now considered to be:
  • posting a video with gameplay of certain tank
  • writing about good points of a tank
  • trying to keep the discussion civil
  • responding to childish provocation when everything else failed
Nice one Hunter, you redefined the term.

Tazilon #71 Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:07 AM

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View Postscafa, on 08 September 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

A good player will usually beat a random player in a similarly tiered tank. Thus giving individual examples of "this one time you killed a tank" is completely pointless when comparing tanks.

Looking at the statistics of tier 5 lights on EU and NA servers VK28 is last and T-50-2 first (about 2% difference) so it's safe to say that the average T-50-2 player manages to help their team more than the average VK28 player. Which isn't to say that T-50-2 will perform better for every player, because it doesn't play the same as VK28 so will benefit from a different style of play.

To answer the OP, I don't think it's worth spending that much free experience to jump to a tank you haven't tried before. In the case of tier 5 lights you could easily test all of them on the test server and see which appeals to you.

Unfortunately a large number of Cougar drivers drive the tank like it were a T-50-2 and die early in the game.  This dramatically reduces its stats.  As I've said, I think any of the 3 Tier Vs are worth the XP IF IF IF you want to drive a high tier Scout.

lewisunderwood #72 Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

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View PostTazilon, on 10 September 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Unfortunately a large number of Cougar drivers drive the tank like it were a T-50-2 and die early in the game.

But lot's of players (in the mid tiers) do not see the potential of this (and the scouts in general) tank at all !

Just yesterday, i was in a battle where a Type59 barked for "VK2801 go scout!" .... but there was half the enemy tanks lighted up, no need for scouting so i switched into sniper mode.
Then i finished off a TigerII and a Panther. U know what the guy said in the Type59 ... "VK, if u kill 3, i come after you" .... what the heck!!

What do they expect ? I go on a suicide scout run if the enemy team is visible ? getting myself killed for nothing ? .... very odd sometimes driving a TierV scout

But i think this discussion was handled already X times. ....

Loofah #73 Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:09 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 10 September 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Unfortunately a large number of Cougar drivers drive the tank like it were a T-50-2 and die early in the game.  This dramatically reduces its stats.  As I've said, I think any of the 3 Tier Vs are worth the XP IF IF IF you want to drive a high tier Scout.

And almost all T50-2 drivers drive it like drunk idiots. I have killed dozens of those with my ISU-152 which isn't exactly the perfect scout killer, you know.
There are more dumb T-50-2 drivers than dumb Fatass drivers (it's "Cougar" only in US and A) which just proves that fatass is underperforming.

I would never spend tons of free XP to get it. IT's better to use free XP to unlock a gun on some higher tier tank. Using it to get VK ASAP is simply wrong. But., as I've said, it'll be semi-bearable in 0.8 I guess, but again - T-50-2 can get to all kinds of retarded positions, and VK can't, so...

scafa #74 Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:44 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 10 September 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Unfortunately a large number of Cougar drivers drive the tank like it were a T-50-2 and die early in the game.  This dramatically reduces its stats.  As I've said, I think any of the 3 Tier Vs are worth the XP IF IF IF you want to drive a high tier Scout.

Yeah, I'm not really convinced. You're just making the assumption that a larger portion of VK28 drivers than T-50-2 drivers are bad at driving the tank. To me it seems more reasonable to say that the numbers suggest that T-50-2 is better at scouting (spotting) and that this benefits their team more. But I don't care to get into that argument further.

As for using free experience, I'd only skip cheaper (<20k) tanks that I know I wouldn't enjoy playing. Better save the rest to help with painful stock tanks. I'm currently stockpiling for the British mediums.

Temptis #75 Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

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View Postscafa, on 10 September 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm not really convinced. You're just making the assumption that a larger portion of VK28 drivers than T-50-2 drivers are bad at driving the tank. To me it seems more reasonable to say that the numbers suggest that T-50-2 is better at scouting (spotting) and that this benefits their team more. But I don't care to get into that argument further.

unfortunatly my observations are supporting his assumption as well. there are way to many people in light tanks just Leeroy'n into the enemy lines to quickly DIAF and the T-50-2 is able to survive about 10s longer doing that, which leads people to assume the T-50-2 is a better tank.

Tazilon #76 Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:58 PM

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The T-50-2 is a much more capable Active Scout than is a Cougar.  A T-50-2 driving around like crazy at the start tends to keep the enemy team focused on it instead of deploying so it provides a value to the team.  A 2801 doing the same dies a lot quicker so doesn't provide much value.  The Cougar's value is more in Half Court and Ninja scouting at the start, thenother activities later in the game.  

If you look at the stats, though, you verify wha tI say that any of the 3 Tier V scouts are worth the free XP, as all 3 are way up there on the list of best performing tanks based on WR.  Even moreso, if you look at the lists of Scout drivers with over 1000 battles in their Scout, you find they perform better than other tankers when driving something different from their primary tank.

Driving a Scout teaches you more about the game than any other tank.  It is definitely worth free XP.

Edited by Tazilon, 10 September 2012 - 04:59 PM.


scafa #77 Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:25 PM

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Oh, I completely agree that T-50-2 suicide rushing is more likely to be useful than VK28 doing the same. I don't see that many VK28s trying to though. You don't have to play that many matches in it to know that the size and somewhat lacking agility makes it much too easy to hit out in the open. I don't however think that the suicide rushing T-50-2s are actually doing enough to boost the tank's win ratio by the difference to VK28 (and beyond, if you assume VK28 is naturally the better tank).

And I'll agree on the importance of scouting and how it can raise a team's win chances significantly. I'm not sure if it's the ideal way to learn the game though as scouts are a bit lacking in the gun department. Mediums or a TD like T49 and Hellcat might be more useful. Although it's not like the OP is in need of that school having played through the French light/medium line.




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