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EDIT: answered now, it's a spaced armour thang =] [thanks all]

There are a lot of threads in here everyday complaining of no damage penetrations, In this post I've recreated this phenomenon very clearly in video and replay, and there are some great posts below explaining how and why it happens [spaced Armour], I'm hoping this will be a good resource for all who come to the forums when a non damaging penetration has lost them the game and they didn't understand why, after all, their shot leaves a bullet hole and they hear it has done damage, infact all the feedback the game gives them states damage, but then they have done no hitpoint damage at all

Here are the original videos and demos, [and there is a link at the bottom of the post to the gamemodels site where you can see where the spaced armour is on all tanks, so you can see the game wasn't trolling you   ]--->

This is what happened, I'm in a kv1 shooting a f-30 [av pen120]
[basically I could of carried on in that spot until I ran out of shells] (sped up x4):


Replay


Here is the original incident on the live server [I get called an a**hat which is cool, but I was enjoying racking up the no damage pens]:


and the replay, [ye i do play like an ***hat so just skip to 6 mins remaining for the interesting part]


and the front of a vk according to wotarmory, I was shooting an f-30 on my kv1 average pen 120:


The spaced armour on the hatch here: [thanks to Allahakbar79]
http://gamemodels3d....3d..../model/g9

Check your targets spaced armour here:
http://gamemodels3d.com/

The spaced armour on the Hatch causing the issue: THANKS to IGL:


So.... Hope it helps!


Edited by tanksal0t, 23 September 2012 - 07:55 PM.

It's simple, you are shooting through the drivers hatch and hitting the driver square in the face. He must be wearing something like this though -

It's made from spaced armor. Case closed.

wg.net want you buy a t-150 and then.......... tier X

gonna make it quick:

with your 120 avg. pen gun you shot at 100mm hull armor + additional 30 or 40mm spaced armor.
you penetrated the spaced armor and since said armor decreases pen power of the shell you failed to pen the 100mm behind it.

case closed.
Edited by IGL, 23 September 2012 - 06:08 PM.

yes...uhmm..
Thats probably the famous Hans Stahl "immortal" tank driver who blocked all this with his stahlhelm ;)

nice, thanks chaps, will make a mental note not to shoot there, so the ufp next to it although higher armour is actually more likely to pen, as not spaced?... [that's how it was appearing on training room]

by the way where did hat spaced armor gfx come from? would be extremeley useful to see some of those... as before i was generally just pewing at areas i knew i should be able to numerically pen without taking spaced into account...
Edited by tanksal0t, 23 September 2012 - 06:11 PM.

with that gun, go for machine gun port or commanders cupola for most reliable penetrations.
Edited by IGL, 23 September 2012 - 06:12 PM.

I watched your video, and that´s what i think/remember:

VK 3601 has 110mm of frontal armor. Those 92mm on your picture take the actual shell normalisation in consideration, what doesn´t mean, that it is 92mm all the time, but 92mm on best dice. Besides that, you were shooting from some angle, what increases the armor effectivness of the VK. Next thing is: ou do not shot the drivers view, but the ADDITIONAL armor that surrounds it. From your video, i beleave that this additional protection now works as spaced armor, what meanst, you have 86mm or armor on the first layer, and the 110mm (or 92mm) upper frontal plate behind it. So you might have penetrated tho outer layer of the spaced armor, but not the plate behind.
Besides that, i don´t know by know, if the VK has spaced armor at it´s front, consisting of several layers of thinner plates (like the Pz III, Pz IV and the StuGIII).

After all, a gun of average 120mm penetration should not be able to penetrate the VK36 on its front, especially from angle. Even 130mm+ guns fail to penetrate at a frequent base (checked that by myself). SInce you still manage to punsh holes into the plate, i assume that the VK 36 has some kind of spaced armor or several layers of armor, so you can penetrate the outer plate, but fail to penetrate the inner one...

u guys have 8k + battles and didnt know about spaced armor?

what i want to know is will the brit cruisers like the covenanter and crusader get the spaced armour boon on their turrets.  Oh actually the brits had loads of double skin armour sections because our mills in ww2 could only go so thick.

It would be nice if WN clarified the type of multi layer armour that gets the bonus oh and exactly how it works.

http://gamemodels3d..../model/g9
This site.
It's about 50 mm spaced armor + 100 mm armor next to that view port - even sloped a bit. Very hard to penetrate, just like mantlet edges. However that hole is 0 armor so everything penetrates, but that requires luck or really good aim. It's much safer to shoot at the MG from the front, and cupola is even safer. Even the lower plate is easier to penetrate for KV and allows you to set tank on fire.
So, just don't shoot at the view port - it's a fake weakspot

You can check every other tank.
http://gamemodels3d.com/

 dominos50, on 23 September 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Spaced armour is only a fairly recent addition to the game. It was introduced to a few tanks in 0.7.0 and has been added to more and more tanks extensively throughout the year.

The real problem is that the commander still says that they penetrated the tank and delt damage. If there was a quote that was used when spaced armour was penetrated, but the total armour wasn't, that would solve the problem. Something like -

*Shell hits armour. Spaced armour penetrated. Total armour not penetrated.
Commander - "We hit them, but not hard enough!" - "It just dented them." - "That woke them up!"

Can't be too hard to make a command that knows when the spaced armour is penned but the full armour isn't. Or they could just remove spaced armour but add it as a total amount of armour for that part of the tank. That way then, it will still penetrate the same thickness of armour, but we won't get an 0 damage pens. Aside from criticals.

Had the same problem penetrating a VK in my own VK, was a bit surprised to say the least, not long after 7.5 came out.

So yes, loads of battles, heard of spaced armour, but as I missed that in the release notes for the VK in 7.5, a bit unsettling.

no matter
Edited by die_infidel_scum, 23 September 2012 - 07:29 PM.

Yes exactly that, I wasn't ware the VK was spaced on that hatch, now I am, and I know where to find out.

I am going to rework the header to try and make this a resource for all the no damage pen "it lost me the game" threads, as I think people often feel confused and don't understand when their shot leaves a bullet hole and they hear it has done damage, infact all the feedback the game gives them states damage, but then they have done none.

Here I have implicitly recreated this ad-infinitum in an easy to see video and replay, and then it is clearly stated what is happening, you can see bullet holes appearing, you can hear the voice stating damage, and hear the damage sound, and see no damage is done, which can only be a good tool to educate those not familiar with spaced armour, even if they were aware of it but not aware of all the tanks it affected and where.

It un-shrouds the mystery, which again can only be a good thing....

big thanks to Allahakbar79 also I shall be looking at that gamemodels site closely! [and adding it to the header.]
Edited by tanksal0t, 23 September 2012 - 07:42 PM.

today in test server shooted facehuging maus.
5 shots to driver view port. or whatever it was.
i tough i will dmg hime like for 2k
bet when i died. i saw that he was full hp

Spaced armour......seriously, still that same excuse for the broken game mechanic?

Nobody can see a problem with 30 penetrating hits to the same spot doing no damage?

Hehe...


Edited by Finguz, 23 September 2012 - 07:48 PM.

 tanksal0t, on 23 September 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

A cunning plan.

I found a picture of the driver: