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Comparing WoT with life as a real tank soldier


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popuptoaster #21 Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:05 AM

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I have never been in any of the forces let alone and armoured one, and I like hearing about the differences between real life and the game. I'm pretty glad however this game is set up to be arcady and not a sim, i've never been interested in all the complication of a sim type tank game.

WoT does need learning and you can't just jump in and play, but things like the tanks needing more than one shot to kill and the mini map, while unrealistic are better for game play than the complication of doing things the hard way i reckon.

smith841 #22 Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:57 PM

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I totally understand why the realism is at the level it is Popuptoaster. If they made it true to real like they would never have 40 million registered players worldwide. However, for guys like me it is so frustrating that it is NEARLY there, but not quite :-)

Over the arty thing...I have only ever seen arty used for area targets. That was with real ammo on the NATO ranges in Alberta, Canada. I was a loader then and my tank commander had to call in arty to simulate the destruction of a position in a village. After correcting fire for the arty battery the last order is "Fire for effect". The target then gets blasted to hell by the whole arty battery. Pretty spectacular!.

Over the tracer thing...AP (at least in my time) travelled at 1760 m/s so you never see it. HE travels at 850 m/s so if you are outside the tank you can see it with the naked eye. In the tank the gunner can see the fall of shot at ranged above 1500 meters.

Another thing that is not simulated in the game, but could be fun, is mine fields. Any ex-military engineers out there that know about tank mines?

Tigger3 #23 Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:29 PM

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View Postsmith841, on 07 October 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

I totally understand why the realism is at the level it is Popuptoaster. If they made it true to real like they would never have 40 million registered players worldwide. However, for guys like me it is so frustrating that it is NEARLY there, but not quite :-)

Over the arty thing...I have only ever seen arty used for area targets. That was with real ammo on the NATO ranges in Alberta, Canada. I was a loader then and my tank commander had to call in arty to simulate the destruction of a position in a village. After correcting fire for the arty battery the last order is "Fire for effect". The target then gets blasted to hell by the whole arty battery. Pretty spectacular!.

Over the tracer thing...AP (at least in my time) travelled at 1760 m/s so you never see it. HE travels at 850 m/s so if you are outside the tank you can see it with the naked eye. In the tank the gunner can see the fall of shot at ranged above 1500 meters.

Another thing that is not simulated in the game, but could be fun, is mine fields. Any ex-military engineers out there that know about tank mines?

There have been suggestions to include minefields in the past, despite all the calls for new game play though anytime some is introduced, loads of people complain.

Sapper here btw (you can never be an ex Sapper lol).

Edited by Tigger3, 07 October 2012 - 07:30 PM.


KillSlim #24 Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:49 PM

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I think that one of the few things WoT can replicate from the real world to a certain extent is good sound quality.
Sound is something which can make or break the immersion, in 8.0 the new track sounds are a big improvement but the guns sound like old Galleon black power guns which fire cannon balls. If we had better engine sounds (and maybe engine start ups just before the beginning of a game) tanks will sound like tanks instead of trucks revving constantly in 1st gear.

This is what I'd love to hear in WoT:
http://www.youtube.c...ature=endscreen

Turbotube #25 Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:24 PM

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I was an infantry carrier tank driver in Finland during my military training in 2008. I drove MT-LBU and MT-LBV tanks and those only had MG's so they don't really count, but I must say that driving is too easy in WoT. In real life the driver doesn't see much else than straight forward and has to rely on the commander to know where to go, especially when driving backwards :Smile_veryhappy: . Modern tanks have cameras in the rear but those tanks that I drove were 60-70's soviet technology.

PzOffz_Vollmilch #26 Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:27 PM

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View Postsmith841, on 06 October 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

Oh yes, IFV's do count (if it had a turret with a cannon in it. Machine guns don't count!!)

20mm Bordmaschinenkanone with AP and HE shells; 7,62mm machinegun and MILAN launcher.

smith841 #27 Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:30 AM

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I agree with KillSlim about the engine sounds although it might help to pump up the volumn on your computer speakers :-) I remember one winter exercise on Soltau when it was really cold. We had to park in a fire position at the edge of a wood. The metal turret of the tanks worked like a freezer in that weather so a couple of us slept on the back decks of the tank to keep warm. A great feeling to sleep with a 1200 hprsepower diesel rumbeling under your ear!

The new gun sound in 8.0 were a bit of a shock at first. Tiers 1 to 3 sound more like champagne corks than guns. I have fired 30mm, 76mm amd 120mm guns in my time and of course there is a difference. Compared to the 30mm the 120 is indeed earth shattering (especially if you are outside the tank). But a champagne cork is not the answer.

CauldronBorn #28 Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:09 PM

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Sound of 120mm shooting:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=G73jfLfZcBk

http://www.youtube.c...1&v=mph7KsNZytA

Note: The sound may not seems very loud, but notice how the camera shakes...


From the inside (Swiss 2A4)

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=w2x3NyqOQ34

TrailApe #29 Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:44 PM

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Former Gunner here - as stated previuosly, at the minute Arty does not target individual tanks, but with the advent of smart ammo this won't be too far in the future.

However what the Arty OP's are trained to do is look for groups of specialist tanks - Commanders tanks (more antenna and different movement) Mine Clearing and Bridge Laying tanks. Now these groups of tanks WILL get special attention, and if the fire orders use 'converge' then most of the rounds will land quite close to the target, and if they are 155mm they will make one hell of a mess of a 50 metre wide area, and if you through in a few rounds of scatterable mines you could take out some very important assets.

However - in real life - just as in WoT, if the target is moving and your time of flight is up to forty seconds, then it's not an easy thing to totally stompt a section of tanks - which is where the Sappers come in by putting in minefields and obstacles to funnel and slow the enemies advance.

And you are right about the SMELL. It didn't often happen on the ranges I frequented, but once in a while it would be a comparitively calm day, and the cordite fumes would hang around like pockets of mist and you would breath them in. No smell like it on earth.

What you didn't mention was the secondary smell YOU produced the day after after breathing in these fumes.  No smell like it on earth.

smith841 #30 Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:36 PM

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In the video from inside the Leo you can clearly hear the fans from the ventilation/electronics, etc. Would be good to have that extra background noise in WoT sniper mode if you had installed the crew ventilation module. I was also thinking that in the days of the WoT tanks after firing the gun the enpty case would eject into the turret. I don't think you hear that noise after firing. I am sure you only hear the round loading and the breech closing.

Nice one TrailApe about the next day smell :-)

lewisunderwood #31 Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:26 PM

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I'm not a tank man, but during my military time we had tank's supporting us and also getting picked up by APC's to leave specific areas. Was always one hell of a show when they fired off their "smoke launchers" to cover whole areas in thick smoke before the extraction or movement started.

I think it would be nice to have the option to shoot that smoke in Malinovka (or on other maps) onto the field and then charge over the field under smoke cover with your tanks. Or use it to cover your movement in general.

Another thing way different to the real world i noticed are: The sounds.

These very, very intensive and loud sounds in reality are not present in the Game.
Shoots, Engine noises ... that roaring and crumbling when the tank is moving even constant Radio communication when radio is on internal speaker, that's something what should be adjusted in WoT.

And of course something you might not can apply at all in the game, is the distant sound you hear, when the tanks are apporaching. Especially in Woods or Valleys were you hear them coming from distance, don't yet see them, getting louder and louder until they arrive. Maybe it could be simulated by some surround sound effects, based on the distance the enemy tanks have to your own tank.

Would be a nice addition to the overall game "feeling".

lewisunderwood #32 Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:35 PM

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View Postlewisunderwood, on 10 October 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

And of course something you might not can apply at all in the game, is the distant sound you hear, when the tanks are apporaching. Especially in Woods or Valleys were you hear them coming from distance, don't yet see them, getting louder and louder until they arrive. Maybe it could be simulated by some surround sound effects, based on the distance the enemy tanks have to your own tank.

Oops, i guess that was more form my perspective as recon infantry. In the Tank of course, you only hear your own noises.

TrailApe #33 Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:37 PM

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Quote

And of course something you might not can apply at all in the game, is the distant sound you hear, when the tanks are apporaching. Especially in Woods or Valleys were you hear them coming from distance, don't yet see them, getting louder and louder until they arrive.

Yes they ARE noisy beasts aren't they.

And given that modern tanks have to have those orange flahing lights when moving about, it can appear that the Norse Gods are having a heavy metal disco - and it's heading your way!

smith841 #34 Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:11 PM

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About smoke. It would be fun if arty had the option to provide smoke to support their fellow tanks. It would encourage more teamwork. Tank could request smoke by indicating a square on the minimap. When fired the smoke could last for a minute or two in game.

About perifial tank sounds. be careful about which perspective you are describing. Indeed if you are an infantryman (commonly known as "grunts" to english tank men) a tank or number of tanks sound a lot different than when you are in them. Also terrain, wind, and whether it is day or night effect the distance the noise of a tank travels.

SlicerDicer #35 Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

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Asking tankers:

How individual is each tank? Do tank crews fit their tank around to their liking or do all tanks look alike as much as they do in WoT (lol looking at those massed russian T-72s you get the impression that it might actually be the case...)?

smith841 #36 Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:41 AM

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View PostSlicerDicer, on 10 October 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

Asking tankers:

How individual is each tank? Do tank crews fit their tank around to their liking or do all tanks look alike as much as they do in WoT (lol looking at those massed russian T-72s you get the impression that it might actually be the case...)?

There are two aspects to take into account here. They are individual changes to the outside of the tank and individual changes to the inside.
1) Regarding camo paint. It is my experience that every so often the tank troops get the order to repaint their tanks. They have to do it within certain criteria. They use a spray gun and paint brush. So the colours used will be the same but each pattern will be slightly different.
2) Other bits a pieces on the outside of the tank. The tank is issued with a certain number of stowage bins mounted in the same place on each vehicle. However, I have known crews to be inventive in adding additional bins using old metal ammo boxes painted in the tank colours. However, if the crew goes over the top on this then they will be told to get rid of them. What goes where in the stowage bins is up to the crew. That is individual.
3) Inside the tank: driver compartment. The oily rag down below lives in his own world. I have known drivers to add carpets, radio/cassette installations and personal coffie making equipment to their cab.
4) In the turret. Well in my experience the turret is pretty cramped with equipment. There is not a lot of possibilities for personisation and it is normally frowned upon. The inside of the turret is designed to fight in and you need as much room as possible to fight the tank. Most available space is full with the essentials of firing the gun and keeping it firing. tankies have there own preferences where they stow their jackets, essential food, etc in the turret but that's about it.

So what is the best seat in the house? For comfort definatly the driver. When the hatches are shut he can sleep almost flat in his reclining seat. The worst seat in the house? Gunner. He has the commanders knees in his back and the gunners sight just in front of him.

SlicerDicer #37 Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:58 AM

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Thanks for the info smith!

I always thought that the gunners seat is tiny...it is!
Is this the same for all thanks? Maybe the M1 Abrams has a better position for the gunner since the turret is so big...

PzOffz_Vollmilch #38 Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:30 AM

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Iirc, the worst seat in a Marder was the backwards-facing seat shown here:

Posted Image

Aside from facing backwards, which in itself is disconcerting to some, every little bump would catapult you to the ceiling...

CauldronBorn #39 Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:22 PM

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And now the inexperienced viewer might think "wow, they got some nice benches and some room there"...bear in mind that they cramp their weapons (rifles, mg, pzfst), their ammo, their personal gear (helmets, nbc-masks, etc) and god-knows-what into that compartment. Ahhh, and nowadays they wear their ballistic vests, too, which makes each soldier even larger...


As for crew postion:

A gunner inside the M1A1 might have a bit more of space, but large turrets don't neccessarily mean more space inside. Western MBT crews are better off for sure (compared to those soviets/russian coffins) but iirc there's a vast difference between the loader's space in a M1 / Leo2 and the CR2, although those 3 turrets are roughly the same size.

The_Challenger #40 Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:01 PM

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View PostCauldronBorn, on 11 October 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

And now the inexperienced viewer might think "wow, they got some nice benches and some room there"...bear in mind that they cramp their weapons (rifles, mg, pzfst), their ammo, their personal gear (helmets, nbc-masks, etc) and god-knows-what into that compartment. Ahhh, and nowadays they wear their ballistic vests, too, which makes each soldier even larger...


As for crew postion:

A gunner inside the M1A1 might have a bit more of space, but large turrets don't neccessarily mean more space inside. Western MBT crews are better off for sure (compared to those soviets/russian coffins) but iirc there's a vast difference between the loader's space in a M1 / Leo2 and the CR2, although those 3 turrets are roughly the same size.


Sorry Guys, been travelling a lot, so playing catch up, just wanted to say I really enjoyed this thread :Smile_Default:
For me Tanks :

1, Map Reading-Nightmare when you are closed down with the gun/turret facing one way and the hull travelling another
2.Battalion Commander giving you jip over the radio for many many reasons
3. Cam Nets-Nightmare to put up/take down, everything that could get snagged, got snagged.
4. The smell of cordite when firing (Umm)
5 Tiredness, falling asleep whilst in overwatch all night !

I could on !!!!

Cheers for the thread  :Smile_Default:




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