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Lorraine 40t: Suitable Tier9 Medium? [Poll]

Lorraine 40t; Lor balancing rebalancing

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Poll: Lorraine 40t: Suitable Tier9 Medium? (600 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

What is your opinion about the current Tier9 Medium Tank - Lorraine 40t? (8.0)

  1. It's fine as it is. (101 votes [16.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.83%

  2. It is in need of a serious overhaul. (211 votes [35.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 35.17%

  3. It currently is an utter failure. (288 votes [48.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 48.00%

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AsyxA #1 Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:52 AM

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What is your opinion about the current french Tier 9 Medium Tank: Lorraine 40t?

This poll will hopefully give some insight about the thoughts of the community.
I don't have fought that much matches with the Lor. so far, and i probably won't as it is atm. It bugs me because i want to like it, but can't.


In my personal opinion the Lorraine 40t is not only the worst Tier 9 Medium Tank, the Lor. is one of the few tanks that have no real purpose, no real function on the battlefield.
This criticism is pretty hard, but this is my honest opinion. The only thing this tank is remotely good at is finishing off survivers at the end of battle or ambushing heavily damaged tanks.
If it is used for this purpose in the early- or midgame, it will be either the or one of the first tanks to die, without accomplishing much for the team.


My point:
-always gets the attention in brawls
-not decent enough mobility
-horrible gun traverse
~3 seconds aimingtime

It's not suited for brawls, gets focused by scouts, mediums, heavies, tank destroyers and arties alike and has to stand still for 3 seconds + get at least 3 effective shots off, to deal more damage then it will take ... in a 1vs1 situation. Any more and it's toast!

->This makes this Tank a second line fighter, maybe even a sniper.


But wait, theres more:
-no armor
-no proper camouflage (comparable to german HTs on that Tier)
-giant size (also comparable to german "boxy" tanks)
-decent gun thats fine to snipe with; sniping capabilities however are limited due to the horrible gun traverse -> you often have to move onto the open field, to manage to continuosly aim at your target

It's not suited for a normal / standard sniping role. To be able to hit the targets, height differences make it necessary to move out of cover or position yourself completely open.
No camo, giant size and no armor at all make any accurate retialation fire hit it's mark easily. On open maps the Lor. takes often more damage, then it deals this way.

->This makes this Tank a ... Ninja.
Either try to brawl or to snipe and often die miserably (as the or one of the first casualties on your team)
Or hide until you can ambush and assault wounded enemy tanks, while avoiding a situation where you have to face more than 2 tanks over a longer time.
You also always have to be supported by your teammates while reloading and permanent hard cover against arty and common TD/Brawl spots is necessary.



Maybe it could fulfill it's very special (arguably non-existant) role as a Tier 8. The Ma- damage and penetration would be enough to make a difference (even if nerfed) and in Tier 10 matches your always happy to have a well supporting T8 DamageDealer, like an ISU. As Tier 9 however your forced to play much more aggressive and accomplish more, as your always at the Top or at least somewhere in mid.
In this situation, Lor. with all it's flaws feels like a wasted spot to me. Your team needs you, but you can't do much until late midgame if you want to survive more than 4 min.

People complain about your playstyle with the Lorraine, why you don't help them (means driving up a hill or down a road as lemmings in the first minute) and to get off that hill.
If your team got a Lorraine, your teams frontline will always be 1x Tier9 tank short and at a disadvantage. Either you try your luck and die miserably due to focus fire, or you stay back as supporter and watch your teammates die, while avoiding arty shells.


It's just my personal opinion and i know alot of skilled players manage to get decent matches with this scrap-pile, however I guess thats more of a "handicap & challenge" thing.
I have yet to meet people that drive ... satisfied ... a Lor. nowadays or ar happy to get them as allies in their team.
It's not impossible to get good results with this tank, but i guess with one of its competitors those results could be way better.

Of course the results would also be way better in a platoon, but so would they while driving any other tank. (i.e. 3x T30)

Wow, this post got longer "than intended".
What's your opinion? Fire Away!

AsyxA

Edited by AsyxA, 06 October 2012 - 12:53 AM.


Nirvana #2 Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:01 AM

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I actually agree with you. What's more, I played the Lorraine when it was tier 8 and many agree it was way better back than. And it actually was a fine tank. I just couldn't click with it, or enjoy it. It always was a pointless tank to me. What annoyed me most wasn't the size, or lack of armour or whatever. It was the stupid aim time. I really can't stand tanks with stupid aim times, especially mediums (more speed=more dispersion, so to stop and aim would actually take you more than 3 seconds. Not sure what can be done to fix it, however. Maybe some players with more experience than myself may be able to help.

Fenomenmusic #3 Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:09 AM

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When I see a Lori 40 in my GWPanther, I already know that my shot will cause 1000< damage. I see no problem. :Smile_veryhappy:

The_Duellist #4 Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:19 AM

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I already made a topic about actually completely replacing the Lorraine with another more suitable tank for T9 French medium... It didn't go very well.
But yea i still support that, because it is "utter failure" for a T9 tank... TBH worst tank concept ever invented...
As before when i would see a Lorraine speeding at me i wouldn't feel too good about it, and not its just "Oh look, Lorraine, meh... wont even bother."

Edited by The_Duellist, 06 October 2012 - 02:23 AM.


Frenzier #5 Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:27 AM

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Well i prefer a Patton, T-54 or E-50 over Lorraine any day, i think Lorraine could get more gun depression and better turret traverse... not sure if its physically possible but, more aim time is really not a good idea... think about it, he can deliver 1800 with a full burst, enough to kill any tier 8 medium in a 1on1, the autoloader is a big plus and it must be balanced in some way and unfortunatly it is by nerfing the stats that make it more nice to play.
AMX 50 120 has great aim time and it is deadly because of that, now imagine an even more mobile vehicle with great aim time with an autoloader....

Well you bugged about his purpose... Patton has gun depression.... T-54 has thick turret, is slick and mobile... E-50 is good at sniping and ramming... Lorraine 40t has an autoloader that can ruin any one´s day really quick.... thats 6x300=1800, enough to kill any tier 9 medium in a 1on1.

_HOXTON_ #6 Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:48 AM

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i play amx 50 100 and they look same to me and very attractive to arty! i think lorraine at tier 8 was good! they should had added a new tier 10 instead of moving tanks up 1 tier and for ELC made a separate line like chaffe,t50-2,vk2801! now its so difficult to play effective with amx 13 75! that gun was good at tier 6

+1 really everything want to shoot me even a-20

Edited by Dezhxim, 06 October 2012 - 02:53 AM.


qrta #7 Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:51 AM

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Worst tank ever

Tufik #8 Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:56 PM

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It is Very RARE if not impossible to get to the situation when You can actually fire 6 shots in a row without being killed on spot... So autoloader is nice but hardly ever fully used (specially with this aim time). Furthermore, rarely all 6 shots make full dmg. Often at least 1 is "crit for 0" or bounce. So I agree with OP - this tank needs some gifts. (Didn't play it as tier 8).

AsyxA #9 Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

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Funniest thing that happened to me today were two 1vs1 with other Lorraine and a duel with an heavily damaged T-54.
In both Lor. vs Lor. situations we just stood there, motionless, defenseless, just pumping away the 6 shots in our mag. Because that really is all you can do in a crap-Lor.
He missed, bounced and zero-hit all his six shots, while i got each one in and killed him without taking any damage.
Some matches after that, same situation, just this time the other Lor got all 6 shots in while i zero-hit and missed 3 out of 6 shots.

I got called "coward" for staying back and hiding while reloading and in cqb i couldn't manage to kill a heavily damaged T-54 off, that ignored me and went straight for our arty.
3 bounces (90 degree in the side of the chassis and turret), 1 miss and 1 effective hit. Then we drove together (literally) to our GW-Tiger, which he killed.
It took me like 7 matches to win once for the daily bonus and i know with any other tank i could have made a difference on the battlefield, with the Lor. i could not.

I'm serious here. Whats the point of a tank that takes at least an equal amount of damage while dealing it, regardless how you play it.

7LV #10 Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:08 AM

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When I see a Lorraine in my Lorr 155 51, I think of one thing, +1 kill.

Serious mistake by WG to move it up into Tier IX with it's paper armour, long aim, long reload, small crew.
Tier VIII was right tier IX makes it the weakest tank I can think of, hitting it with a 155 51, nukes it's armour to less than 50%

It needs it's aim time reducting to 2.5 max, armour is paper, so make it damage more or raise it's base camo value. or a shift back to tier VIII

haugeranville #11 Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

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Same here i'm trying to grind the BatChat and i'm having serious difficulties by now.
Long aiming time, paper armour, all of that is true...
Cant wait for a change unless i get the BatChat soon ^^ (only 90k xp left :arta: )
I'm sad before 8.0 it was a cool sniper tank but now i get owned by some E 75s wich are the same tier...
That is just the result of massive whining about french tanks being OP...so dont blame WG blame the whiners. :Smile-hiding:

stefko #12 Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:23 AM

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the lorraine as it is, has absolutely no value for the team.

- arty food
- even scouts pick on you
- actively scout killing is difficult due to aimtime and low elevation and just exposes you as target
- you can't stay exposed to unload your revolver
- i hate fast dying top dogs, but as lorraine you're the first pick of everyone - so you start the match hiding or slowly approaching on the battlefield. so you're indirectly lowering the attack speed of the team (when you're pushed into a leading role, which the lorraine cant handle)

of course when you're on the winning side, playing lorraine is easy...driving around at good speed, picking targets which are distracted on a outthinned battlefield.
and there comes the low winrate on the lorraine...a winning team would also win without lorraine...but it's very unlikely that a lorraine is decisive in a match.

so my impression so far: lorraine is a very difficult tank to drive for me and sometimes pretty awkward being magnetic to bullets..., hope the batchat drives more like the good amx 1390 - so it's worth the grind.

belzebut #13 Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:39 AM

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I wasn't able to grind the Bat, I sold the Lorry and I will try again some day. It is a bad tank. You can only shoot all the shells if nobody is aiming at you. Otherwise you get crippled until you do it. The long aiming time means that you have to stay motionless for a long time, and you don't have armour to bounce hits. And even if you can fire more shots a lot of them won't do any damage (bounces, 0 damage hits, track 0 damage hits). A bad tier 9 tank.

lonigus #14 Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:04 PM

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As the 3rd placed Lorraine player in terms of amout of games on the EU server I can easily tell that it is clearly misplaced on the 9th tier.

Tank is fine, but not against 1000 dmg guns as tier 9 most of the time anymore. I sold it a month ago.

TomiF #15 Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:20 PM

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I  voted it is fine, because you didn't have choice of slight buff. Lorraine is ok tank, not very good, but neither bad. Because of its big size and lack of armor, it can't lead an attack, but it is very good supporting tank. It has mobility to move to right position on battlefield and it should never be first on to go to fight unless all enemies are spotted and you know tank you are going to engage with is alone. While said that, you rarely have opportunity to fight lonely tank so you need to support your attack. Wait until your couple of tanks engage couple of enemys tanks and then drive to their side and unload as many shots you can before they start to shoot you and go to cover. That is one example of way to use lorraine. It really is tank of opportunity and you will have to wait situation to arise and act immediately when good opportunity rises. If you are late even a few seconds, it will probably cost your life. So it is really  hard tank to play well, but it can unload crazy amouts of damage if used well. Slight buff to turning rate and it will be a good tank.

AsyxA #16 Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:20 PM

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View PostTomiF, on 09 October 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I  voted it is fine, because you didn't have choice of slight buff. Lorraine is ok tank, not very good, but neither bad...

View PostAsyxA, on 06 October 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

...In my personal opinion the Lorraine 40t is not only the worst Tier 9 Medium Tank, the Lor. is one of the few tanks that have no real purpose, no real function on the battlefield.
...The only thing this tank is remotely good at is finishing off survivers at the end of battle or ambushing heavily damaged tanks.
...As Tier 9 however your forced to play much more aggressive and accomplish more, as your always at the Top or at least somewhere in mid.
...In this situation, Lor. with all it's flaws feels like a wasted spot to me. Your team needs you, but you can't do much until late midgame if you want to survive more than 4 min.

In the first 5 minutes of a match you have to choose between being aggressive and dealing damage, or trying to survive this Lorraine-critical and -dangerous phase and stay way back.
-> So you either take way too much damage in the first minutes, or stay back while your frontline is short one Tier 9, which is often fatal for your team except in the highest MM-Tier

A Lorraine 40t on your team means your teams frontline will be short of a much needed Tier 9 tank. Either at the beginning of the match, or later.
Also (in my opinion) the Lorraine is non-arguably not competitive to it's Tier 9 medium counterparts at all. That alone is reason enough for me to disagree with it being "fine as it is".

Well, thats my opinion about it.

(edited to remove grammar mistakes, currently pretty sleepy)

Edited by AsyxA, 09 October 2012 - 07:22 PM.


RedSox04 #17 Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:43 AM

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I hated it at first, but I like it now that I use it in the right way. Just hang back a bit and wait. It's actually quite good fun sitting in the background and waiting for the right moment. Of course now I get *kill stealer* and other remarks but I would say that most of those guys would be dead if I hadn't taken the last 400 or so hp out of the enemy. I like using it as is a track breaker for arty which can be amusing. Fun tank, not a brawler, but good fun if you use it right. And it leads to a Bat Chat so there is a silver lining.

TardWurst #18 Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:24 AM

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I liked the Lor. when it was tier 8, almost got it grinded thru but not quite. So as a tier 9 I thought it would be buffed someway, but actually it feels like it's been nerfed. All the weaknesses have been stated earlier so not much left to say.
I voted 'it's fine', tho I think it sucks. Let me explain, it is not useless tank but extremely difficult to use well - and I think the game needs tanks that are not easy to handle. I'm not usually doing very well with Lor. but sometimes it works like a charm. There must be some price to pay for getting to Bat chat. - those are annoying as hell in big numbers and often driven by peeps who shouldn't drive anything higher than tier 6.

drakasas #19 Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:41 AM

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devs atleast could giwe better acc on the mowe or something, coz like it was sayd, u hawe to completly stop when u shooting, otherway u risking not only hitting bouncy places but oweral mising your target ewen up close ...
i still love french light/medium tree, but some maps are just to painfull to play with lory specialy when ur team is losing and u cant do anything about it since theres like 2-3 roads u can go and both means u will be exposed and once u start shooting ull die ...
then again if u can flank from behind ... its front changer( other mediums cant do that as much but then again, they arent wortless most of the time :D )

lonigus #20 Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:09 AM

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View Postanimal_passion, on 10 October 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

I hated it at first, but I like it now that I use it in the right way. Just hang back a bit and wait. It's actually quite good fun sitting in the background and waiting for the right moment. Of course now I get *kill stealer* and other remarks but I would say that most of those guys would be dead if I hadn't taken the last 400 or so hp out of the enemy. I like using it as is a track breaker for arty which can be amusing. Fun tank, not a brawler, but good fun if you use it right. And it leads to a Bat Chat so there is a silver lining.

You did never play it before all the nerf did You?
  • it had excelent shoting on the move abilities
  • it had nearly E50 like sniper like features
  • it could manouver nearly as good as a ligh tank
  • it had initially 1500 HP as tier 8
  • it had twice better gun depression
  • it reloaded in 24 seconds
  • it reloaded between shots in less then 2 seconds
And all that as a tier 8 tank. The only tank that I could easily agree about its huge OP potential. Then came the 1st nerf with nearly 3 seconds between shots which made a huge impact and -250 HP. Second nerf that affected handling and lastly the third nerf that nerfed the accuracy and gun traverse angles. Even after the biggest nerf of all WoT history the tank performed on the borderline as a tier 8. Still quite a joy to ride.

Now as a tier 9 it is basically back at where it was after the first nerf as a tier 8 with +50 HP more which is quite funny.





Also tagged with Lorraine, 40t;, Lor, balancing, rebalancing

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