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Lorraine 40t: Suitable Tier9 Medium? [Poll]

Lorraine 40t; Lor balancing rebalancing

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Poll: Lorraine 40t: Suitable Tier9 Medium? (600 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

What is your opinion about the current Tier9 Medium Tank - Lorraine 40t? (8.0)

  1. It's fine as it is. (101 votes [16.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.83%

  2. It is in need of a serious overhaul. (211 votes [35.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 35.17%

  3. It currently is an utter failure. (288 votes [48.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 48.00%

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vietlord #21 Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:12 AM

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The good Lorr is the hidden one.
I think it's T6 first, T9 at the end
---Never be first on assault (yesterday one exception: early hill on MINE followed by 1t59 1t54, i hurted some and killed 1 arty from there) but take a -real- coffee
--- If you can, have a peek-a-boo snipe, but back after 1 shot or you're playing with your life
--- read the minimap behind a house
--- if team is loosing hard, try to gambit yourself to flank an expensive foe, you can have enough HP to give your full clip
--- if team is loosing slightly, help 1v1 like amx13-90
---if team is wining ... well help
--- the best: the end saved a 5v5 cripled and not near, you'll change the end

One last thing: if you survive by lorraine, you ll manage well many tanks

BRICE #22 Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:32 AM

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It doesnt fit the tech tree.
Its like MAUS had child with Bat Chat.

Please add 13-100 - ah or something.

I still do "acceptable" with it, but thats because i treat it as backstabber.
Thats its only viable play option. + Hunt artys through middle of maps... After some time ofc.

Edited by BRICE, 11 October 2012 - 09:32 AM.


AsyxA #23 Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:51 AM

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Almost reached 100 votes, thanks for participating.
As not many people voted in the last days, here a quick summary and bump:

(96 member(s) have cast votes)

It's fine as it is. (18 votes [18.75%])
It is in need of a serious overhaul. (28 votes [29.17%])
It currently is an utter failure. (50 votes [52.08%])

So basically 81,25% are unsatisfied with the Lorraine as it currently is.
Additionally 52,08% think it is not competitive at all and does not deserve to be an Tier 9 Medium tank.

This poll probably won't change much, but maybe WG will at least take notice of it. Keep voting!

Edited by AsyxA, 14 October 2012 - 09:52 AM.


NemesiScorpene #24 Posted 14 October 2012 - 01:30 PM

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As somebody says, give us a good AMX 13 105 (which existed). It would fit in this line between 13 90 and bat chat. And put a lighlty buffed Lorraine between this line and the future heavies medium line ( AMX 30). A bit like the KV2 between KV line and arty !

To be honest, the Lorraine is something like OP when the team win and it's tiers IX (max 3 top tiers). Here it could help, run from a point to another, and reload while moving, give 900 damage in a row (5 seconds). Yes. It's good.

In other games? You have to play like a coward, sniping, but you have not the TDs gun or Camo, support? But you cannot move your gun. You just try to help, and you dont give another solution to your team. You can help to win, and you can help to lose with a score not too ashaming. But you cannot make the decision with a good movement, at the nice time.
To my mind, the 13 90 is better than the Lorraine.

RedSox04 #25 Posted 14 October 2012 - 01:59 PM

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View PostNemesiScorpene, on 14 October 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

As somebody says, give us a good AMX 13 105 (which existed). It would fit in this line between 13 90 and bat chat. And put a lighlty buffed Lorraine between this line and the future heavies medium line ( AMX 30). A bit like the KV2 between KV line and arty !

To be honest, the Lorraine is something like OP when the team win and it's tiers IX (max 3 top tiers). Here it could help, run from a point to another, and reload while moving, give 900 damage in a row (5 seconds). Yes. It's good.

In other games? You have to play like a coward, sniping, but you have not the TDs gun or Camo, support? But you cannot move your gun. You just try to help, and you dont give another solution to your team. You can help to win, and you can help to lose with a score not too ashaming. But you cannot make the decision with a good movement, at the nice time.
To my mind, the 13 90 is better than the Lorraine.

Totally agree. Move the Lorraine to a bridging spot. This will encourage people to research the line it bridges too from tier 1 as nobody in their right mind would suffer this tank if they had a choice not to.

AMX 13 105 sounds very very interesting!

Insoucious #26 Posted 14 October 2012 - 02:05 PM

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View PostNemesiScorpene, on 14 October 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

To be honest, the Lorraine is something like OP when the team win and it's tiers IX (max 3 top tiers). Here it could help, run from a point to another, and reload while moving, give 900 damage in a row (5 seconds).

In this case, all French Tanks are over-powered (those having auto-reloader ofc).
But, contrary is also true, when team is losing..French Tanks are pretty ineffective (more than other "standard" tanks) due to their "uselessness" during reload.
In fact, here's 2 kind of battle you'll meet when you'll be playing french tanks:
1- Team is losing 0-9 after only 2min, you get 3-4 enemies front of you, no exit. You're done. Exp: 230xp
2- Team is winning, and at this moment, it's REAL FUN (Yihaaa!) enemy is occuped by your teammate, go to his back and it's ass party :D result: 3-4 kills. Exp: 1000xp

View PostAsyxA, on 14 October 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

So basically 81,25% are unsatisfied with the Lorraine as it currently is.

20% are liars.
:b

ic4mdkpxiprc #27 Posted 14 October 2012 - 03:55 PM

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After 1390 I'm very unhappy with Lorr performance. I like it as a tank, but it should be on tier VII. For example in close combat with T-54 it's too big/high - shooting down on slopped turret of T-54 get you high probability of 6 bounces and painful death. Even compared with Panther 2 - I shot twice on its one shot, but after 6 shells 40 sec I'm defenseless and of course nobody in team cares about French noobs ;) The only way to play is snipping (like big paper bag) or going with some heavy and hiding behind it (and a lot of heavies don't like it).

Insoucious #28 Posted 14 October 2012 - 04:03 PM

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View Postic4mdkpxiprc, on 14 October 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

or going with some heavy and hiding behind it (and a lot of heavies don't like it).

A lot of heavies don't like it just because too often, they block them front of enemies (you know how it's annoying...) BUT when you have a good support (so rare!), you're happy

Posted Image

ic4mdkpxiprc #29 Posted 14 October 2012 - 04:37 PM

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View PostInsoucious, on 14 October 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

A lot of heavies don't like it just because too often, they block them front of enemies (you know how it's annoying...) BUT when you have a good support (so rare!), you're happy

Yes, that true, but rather hearing about kill stealers...

Insoucious #30 Posted 14 October 2012 - 04:39 PM

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View Postic4mdkpxiprc, on 14 October 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Yes, that true, but rather hearing about kill stealers...

That's true as well, but the most important are damage dealt.

SabiaMagarViteaza #31 Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:24 PM

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When it was tier 8 i liked it, only used the 90mm because of the time between shots, it was a pretty good brawler (it kinda felt faster, i dont know why).
Now at tier 9, firepower is epic, it shoots better on the move, reload and time between shots are better, BUT the mobility feels like SHIT. It has no place as a tier 9 med, it is not a med, a T-44 or a Pershing would do much better at tier 9 because they have better mobility/low profile/gun depression/armor etc.
So its not a med. In city maps u can play close support, shooting over the shoulder of other tanks, but for that u have the AMX 50/100 that works just as well and is tier 8.
U want to play it as a fast relocating TD? Well, the AC1948 has a quick firing 100 mm too (or a hard hitting 120), that aims faster and is more accurate; the 1948 is fast, has low profile, armor and camo. And its tier 8.
U want to play as a spotter/ambusher? AMX 13/90 has better camo, profile, speed, maneuvrabily. And its tier 8.

Yesterday in my T-44 (with stock engine) i basically killed alone a Lorraine, AMX 13/90, AMX 13/75, AMX 12 and a Chaffee that all tried to charge at me at the same time on the hill in Sand River. I just kept hulldown (T-44 has epic gun depression compared to those poor frenchies) and blasted them with that amazing LB1, hitting every shot on the move, while they were missing/dinging the turret, trying to charge forward but failing to get me (they were affraid i had some support, which i didnt), a real mess, felt sorry for the poor buggers.

Moving Lorraine to tier 9 was a big mistake. I did much better in my T34 back when it was a tier 9 heavy, it was moved to tier 8 and now its a solid premium tank. They should move Lori back too.
I had some awful teams too in it, my win rate has plummeted. I did over 5000 damage in a tier 9 game, leading the atack while a platoon of 3 IS8s sat behind the arty the whole match. They did 1000 damage; combined. If the team camps there is absolutely nothing you can do.
The only times i saw someone did well in Lori was when he was VERY discrete at the start of the game, which ofc meant that team was losing badly (was the only tier 9, the enemy had a really bad E75 player). He managed to turn it around by savaging the wounded at the end. I was in a Lor 155/50 tier 6 french arty (which btw is fun to drive), and knowing how important is to keep him alive, i scouted for him, distracting and taking hits so he can have good shots. We both survived with 10000 damage and 10 kills together, really nice game. But that only worked because the enemy E75 camped the whole game doing absolutly nothing. If at any point he pushed we would have lost.
So, yeah, its not a med, would be nice to get a real med in the french line.

eliocoric #32 Posted 15 October 2012 - 04:42 PM

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Guys i really don't know why do you hate Lorraine that much???.. i played it on test server.. it really is a good tank but it needs skill and brain to play it correctly. This is my opinion of this tank and i agree that it has lot of cons but it can be deadly in right hands.

AsyxA #33 Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:41 PM

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Don't get me wrong.

View Posteliocoric, on 15 October 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Guys i really don't know why do you hate Lorraine that much???.. i played it on test server.. it really is a good tank but it needs skill and brain to play it correctly. This is my opinion of this tank and i agree that it has lot of cons but it can be deadly in right hands.

In the following I will state my personal opinions, why the Lorr. is so hated/unloved by this many players. For me personally it is a hate-love.
I want to like it, but i can't. I almost go into "raging-mode" after some horrible losses, which are usual if your not playing in a platoon.
Also i pretty much had my by far worst, and by far best games with it. It really is dependant on many things that go on in battle.

Don't get me wrong. A Lorr. in capable hands can still be a lethal threat, however that so much depends on luck, your team, enemy arties, enemy Mediums ...
If anyone decides to charge at you, your dead. If you stay too long in one spot, your dead. If your too aggressive, you die within the first 3 min. If your too cautious, your teammates die horribly and your frontline melts.
All of that can and will happen, if it's a decent match. If it's not, you utterly get focusfired, one- or two-shot by arties or just overrun and slaughtered.

I see, broken down to simplify, four major problems:
1. Ths tank can do great, however it still has many, many disadvantages that outweight the strongpoints.
The only thing really decent this tank got, is the cannon combined with an autoloader. Pretty much anything else except view range and so on is baaad.
Also the sole strongpoint (gun & autoloader) can and will become your biggest weakpoint, once something does not work according to plan.
Bounces, zero-hits, misses, getting tracked, getting flanked, enemy getting support, teammates die, anything ...

2. This makes this tank very hard to play, very frustrating, extremely team and matchmaking dependant. The Result is the by far worst T9 medium ingame, which arguably is not competetive to it's counterparts.
It does not even have much "fearfactor" like other hard-hitting tanks. Everyone is carefull, when he has to duke it out with an Obj, , ISU, T95, JT, T30, ... even T34.
No one on the battlefield perceives it that way, even though its burst damage is way higher. Pretty much no one will hide from you, instead they all will charge ahead, trying to get a guarenteed hit in.
This results into forced "emptying ineffectively" your 6 shot mag, after which you hopelessly got to run or die.
After two dealt consecutive hits the targeted tank will fall back and another will pop up, this kind of situation is hopeless with an autoloader. Pretty much no one would dare to do that if an 700/750 alpha tank would be around the corner.

3. As I wrote in the opening-post and also someone some posts before, it has no role on the battlefield. It doesn't matter what you want to do with it, in the french tree alone you will find at least 1 more suitable tank for that role.
Also it is by far not anything like an allrounder, it is way too specialised for that. So if you want a tank for a specific role, this one is inferior. If you want an allrounder, get something else then a french tank.

4. It's required playstile is completely different from anything you have to use in the medium Line. It is a heavy tank in any possible way, except weight, top speed and engine power/weight ratio.
If you enjoyed playing the amx-line (which all of you will, else you wouldn't even reach the Lorr. as T9), you probably won't enjoy playing this thing, as it is something completely different and feels inferior.


The only way I really am successfull with this tank (except regular lucky matches that are few) is driving it as a "stupid coward, sniper noob, kill stealer".
I would even go so far and compare it to my very beloved "Ambusher T-25", which worked awesome as Tier 5 premium tank back then.
Well this one pretty much only works with decent backup, so playing in a platoon is already mandatory. The difference is also that your enemies are way more skilled, more is at stake, you meet more coordinated platoons, more skilled arty.
Probably the worst thing is the Tier itself, as already mentioned in the opening-post.
In a Tier 10 match, everyone loves a good Tier 8 Supporter tank that cowardly snipes/ambushes/flanks and greatly benefits the team, even though being one of the weakest tanks.
But if you get into such a match (or worse Tier 9) your Lorr. has to push, has to defend, has to lead others in battle.

The matchmaking puts you against E-75s, M103s, T-54s, T30s ... which you can't beat in a "fair fight". It's just not possible without acting as your "teams coward".

And it again turned out longer "as intended".  =X


What is your opinion about it?

Edited by AsyxA, 15 October 2012 - 10:49 PM.


theghostcat #34 Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:07 PM

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Tier 9 fully destroyed this tanks play-ability.

joyuesp #35 Posted 20 October 2012 - 06:35 PM

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View Posttheghostcat, on 16 October 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

Tier 9 fully destroyed this tanks play-ability.
im playing the amx 50 120 stock which is bigger and slower than lorraine(and its unarmored too) i can deal over 2500 damage per round and 2-3 kills just being arti aware and picking tanks i can beat its ass without being on the line of fire of other 10.
played it right lorraine is op, playing it like a light tank is just wrong.

Edited by joyuesp, 20 October 2012 - 06:36 PM.


AsyxA #36 Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:53 PM

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View Postjoyuesp, on 20 October 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

im playing the amx 50 120 stock which is bigger and slower than lorraine(and its unarmored too) i can deal over 2500 damage per round and 2-3 kills just being arti aware and picking tanks i can beat its ass without being on the line of fire of other 10.
played it right lorraine is op, playing it like a light tank is just wrong.
Well, i can't understand at all what should be "op" of the Lorraine. It was pretty neat back then as Tier 8, but now...?
I have to object, various already mentioned reasons.

Also i don't think ~2.500 damage is good enough for a Tier 9 at all.(same gun, similar damage potential) That would be slightly more dealt damage, than hitpoints of your tank.
I personally am not satisfied with most of my battles, if i did not even manage to deal twice as much damage, as i brought hitpoints to the fight.

Tufik #37 Posted 29 October 2012 - 03:26 PM

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View PostAsyxA, on 15 October 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:


The only way I really am successfull with this tank (except regular lucky matches that are few) is driving it as a "stupid coward, sniper noob, kill stealer".

The matchmaking puts you against E-75s, M103s, T-54s, T30s ... which you can't beat in a "fair fight". It's just not possible without acting as your "teams coward".


Fully agree here... Since I play it more cautionously I'm being constantly called "Kill stealer, coward moront etc..." Even when I saves ally from enemy by delivering last shot. The worst matches are when I'm on top... Just HATE when every 1 expects me to push lol in this cartoon tank... But then I tell them "try playing lorry then call me a n00b" ;/
My WR climbs a bit recently and DMG/Battle also, but still a lot of rounds when I can't even empty 1 drum... (arty 1 hits and so on)

5_InchFl0ppy #38 Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:34 AM

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I have just got this tank after thoroughly enjoying the AMX 13 90 quite possibly the most fun tank I have played in the game so far. Then I got the Lorraine.......
I have only played a few games in it so far and only have the gun (I used torsion bars to allow that) but already I have noticed that it seems to be a horrible gawky piece of crap with no real role that it can excel in.
I really do try my best not to slate tanks just because I have had a bad game or 2, but I cannot find a single positive thing to say about it, apart from its reasonably mobile and the gun is fairly accurate, after you have waited for the basta*d thing to aim.
I used to wonder why I could often kill Lorraine's so easily in my 13 90, now I know why, its a bloody downgrade!
I have tried to play more cautiously than I would the other tanks in the AMX line, as I did read a few guides and watch a few vids, but I am totally at a loss as to how anyone drives this thing well, its huge, arty molests it with a single shot, and its impossible to hide this things fat arse if you actually plan to be in a position to shoot something at some point in the game.
It has no real connection to the rest of the line and I don't see why I'm being forced to learn a new play style at tier 9 and then go back to one that works at tier 10.
I'm sorry if this post is full of rage, but I really am disappointed with this tank.

xmcocx #39 Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:08 PM

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Is there any info at all from WG that the lorraine will get a suitable buff? Reading through the posts, players are most def. unsatisfied.
Doesn't WG care about player experience in this game?

no_name_cro #40 Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:52 PM

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Biggest minus of tank - how the fu*k did they put it in AMX series?? and there is amx 100(or 105) model witch really continues the AMX line.
Anyway now when they moved up all french line 1 tier up all french went bad. Only ELC is fun.





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