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Valentine - Tier IV Light Tank

valentine

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hamstor #1 Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:48 AM

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Good morning fellas,

as the 0.8.1 tests have begun, we had our first glimpse at the new British tanks and as being a fan of the Russian lend-lease Valentine, I'd like to share a comparison between those two little tanks and some impressions.

So let's compare the little snails on paper:


Brit:
Posted Image


Russkie:




Posted Image

Armament:

Russkie 45mm:
Damage: 47/47/62 DPM: 1233,75
Penetration: 51/84/23
Rate of Fire: 26,25
Accuracy and Aiming Time: 0,41 + 1,7

Tommy 2 pdr:
Damage: 50/50/60 DPM: 1428,5
Penetration:78/121/23
Rate of Fire: 28,57
Accuracy and Aiming Time: 0,36 + 1,7

Tommy 6 pdr:
Damage: 75/75/75 DPM: 999,75
Penetration: 110/180/30
Rate of Fire: 13,33
Accuracy and Aiming Time: 0,41 + 2,5

Tommy 75mm:
Damage: 110/110/175 DPM: 999,9
Penetration: 91/144/38
Rate of Fire: 9,09
Accuracy and Aiming Time: 0,41 + 2,5

As much for the paper stats, the Brit has the better gun while having less mobility. Keep in mind that the Valentine is no typical Light Tanks and is played more like a Heavy. It's slow top speed with mediocre acceleration and good traverse speed make it similar to the B1 Tier IV French Heavy. Players being familiar with this tank should expect the same driving performance and bouncyness with a much better choise of guns.

That said the performance of the British Valentine should be amazing when facing only Tier IV, as the Russians biggest problem is the terrible Tier II gun with low penetration. When facing tanks like M3 Lee, Hetzer, B1 or PzB2 only aiming for weakspots will help, and even then the Lee and the Hetzer will have no trouble penetrating your armor while having much more DPM. Now with the gun the Brit has to offer, the Valentine will have no trouble fighting everything thrown at in Tier IV battles.

Now the Brit has no special MM like its Russian cousin (max. Tier IV) and has the usual +2 Tierspread sometimes facing even Tier VI. Armed with the 6 pdr Tier V battles shouldn't be much of a problem with 110 penetration (just as much as a 7,5 cm KwK 40 L/48 on PzIV). So it should perform better than any Tier IV tank facing better armored tanks. As for Tier VI battles 2nd row supporting and aiming for weakspots should become essential as flanking is clearly not an option with 24 km/h. At least it won't be so much of a canonfoddar. For Tier 4 battles the stockgun proved to be quite exellent due to the amazing DPM damaging any tank it might face and dinging quite a lot of shells because of the nice armor. Of couse choise of guns also depends on playstyle.

Guns:
The armament of the Valentine is quite versatile:

Gun QF 2-pdr Mk. X
The stockgun. Not that "stock" would mean something bad in this case. It boast amazing accuracy and DPM with quite good penetration for Tier 4. Only downside is the low penetration against Tier 5 and 6 opponents and the puny alpha.

Gun 6 pdr Gun Mk. V (L/50)
The 6 pounder is a very interessting gun for this tank. Basically you lose accuracy and DPM for an amazing penetration. This gun is very useful when facing higher tier enemies and is quite reliably penetrating everything on Tier 4 and 5. Any cons? Aimingtime, accuracy and RoF are much worse than on the 2pdr. btw GoldAmmo has 180 pen

Gun QF 6 pounder Mk. III
The Mk. 3 is similar to the Mk.5 L/50 with a bit lesser accuracy (0,43) and lesser pen (105/170/30) but with a tiny better aiming time (2,3).

Gun 75 mm Gun Mk. V
The alpha gun for the alphas. If you prefer alpha this gun might be your choise. Useful for peek-a-boos and CQC and even useful HE for funny moments. Penetration and RoF are at best "challenging".

Suggested Crew Skills + Equipment:

Warrior:
My experiences with the Ruski Valentine gave my crew Repair and Brothers in Arms so far. As for the future the Commander gains "Recon", the Driver "Clutch Breaking" and the Loader... well... maybe Safestorage or Adrenaline Rush. As Equipment a Gunlaying Drive, a Spall Liner and the Ventilations worked well. Might as well change the GLD for a Toolbox.

Ninja-Sniper:
Another viable option is the "CamoCowardSniperPwnz0r" as with the 40mm (2pdr) and the great base camovalue of the Valentine with 3x Camo on crew + painjob + CamoNet the little Buggar makes quite the Sniper. It's probably something for someone seeking comfort and some relaxing rather than some ACTION. Yea so Camonet, Ventilations and Binos or Toolbox seem reasonable.

All in all I hope you enjoyed my little guide because being probably "one of the best light tank of WWII" you certainly shouldn't miss this little jewel and I hope you will have a great time and let him be your "Valentine".

Bobi_Kreeg #2 Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:38 AM

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View Posthamstor, on 15 October 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

Good morning fellas,

<lots of text>

Being probably "the best light tank of WWII" you certainly shouldn't miss this little jewel and I hope you will have a great time and let him be your "Valentine".
Good morning.

It wasn't a light tank, it was an infantry tank designed to support footmen breaking through enemy trenches. It was replaced by the Churchill tank. :)
Infantry tanks are actually similar to heavy tanks in speed and crew protection, but (usually) have less firepower.
The only reason why Valentine was issued to tank regiments is because the British had nothing else to use at the start of the war.

hamstor #3 Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:28 AM

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View PostBobi_Kreeg, on 15 October 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

It wasn't a light tank, it was an infantry tank designed to support footmen breaking through enemy trenches. It was replaced by the Churchill tank. :)

Aye, that's right. Afaik the Brits didn't have the breakdown of "Light/Medium/Heavy" tanks, but then categorized them in their roles, like the infantry tanks or the cruiser tanks. So it should be difficult to push them into a specific corner in an arcade game like WoT.

Listy #4 Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:14 PM

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To quote one of my mates, in a rather amusing rant.

"The Russians have had two attempts to classfy the Valentine, and they've managed to get it wrong both times!"

TheMuffinPirate #5 Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:26 PM

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I really like the valentine but wargaming have made one massive mistake. It's a tier4 light, and so to my dismay, this infantry tank with a top speed of 24kmph can get tiered as a scout. When I found myself in a tier 8 game I couldn't stop myself from laughing at wargamings incompetence.

mr3awsome #6 Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:32 PM

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View PostBobi_Kreeg, on 15 October 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

the British had nothing else to use at the start of the war.
Its a mid war tank  :Smile-hiding:
And there were other things too, like Tilly Seniors and Crusaders

Tigger3 #7 Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

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View PostBobi_Kreeg, on 15 October 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

Good morning.

It wasn't a light tank, it was an infantry tank designed to support footmen breaking through enemy trenches. It was replaced by the Churchill tank. :)
Infantry tanks are actually similar to heavy tanks in speed and crew protection, but (usually) have less firepower.
The only reason why Valentine was issued to tank regiments is because the British had nothing else to use at the start of the war.

View Postmr3awsome, on 15 October 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Its a mid war tank  :Smile-hiding:
And there were other things too, like Tilly Seniors and Crusaders

Valentine was designed in 1939 (to a 1938 spec), trials 1940, first use in combat mid 1941, pre-war design (based on the A9/A10 designs of 1936) that was kept in service due to lack of other vehicles to do its job.

Lots of other designs and a few hulls but after pretty much the entire of Britain's tank fleet was lost in France (only a few in North Africa as well), Britain had to play catch up to produce the numbers required so designs were rushed into service and others kept in action far too long.

Morty_Jhones #8 Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:26 AM

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Well wargaming can kiss goodby to being able to Deniy any clame on non rusky bias cuss the Stats of the tanks dont lie.

This tank LOSES 30mm of armour from the sides just becuse it is being used by it's home nation. ok from the MK 4 up the side armour WAS reduced but down to 50mm not 30mm (and it is not a typo cuss it plays as if the side armour is that thin) its the same with the turret armour as well droping 20mm on the side when used by the brits

The tracks gains in performance an extra 10 degries rotation and .25 load limit when in rusky hands as does the engine gemerates an extra 10 Hp and has less burn chance dispite being the same engine.

the radio and gun are rusky so no comparisons are posable

granted that the gun is lighter so the incresed turet rotation (up to 50) is posable but the the incresed veaw 350m with the basic turret with the british being 40/330 and 42/340 respectivly, is inexscusable

Edited by Morty_Jhones, 16 October 2012 - 11:28 AM.


dapprman #9 Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:15 AM

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To add more to the historical perspective.  The Valentine was the Infantry Tank MK3, replacing the Matilda MK2, for while it had less armour (though still enough to be classed as a heavy tank at the time), it was easier and cheaper to build plus proved itself to be very reliable.

I've seen posts claim it was outdated by the end of the desert campagn.  This is actually wrong, for while it was replaced by the Churchill, it was still a viable tank, being gradually upgraded - gun from 2 pounder to 6 pounder, and then QF 75mm.  While gradually replaced and retired by the time of the Italian campagn, it was still liked and trusted by it's crews (unlike the Shermans that replaced it in most regiments.)

Tyrgrim #10 Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:49 PM

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Well in the game its a pos tank you play untill you get the T5 then you never play it again, ever.

Listy #11 Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

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View PostTyrgrim, on 02 November 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Well in the game its a pos tank you play untill you get the T5 then you never play it again, ever.

I quite like it. Think I'll be keeping her,

Tigger3 #12 Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

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View PostListy, on 02 November 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

I quite like it. Think I'll be keeping her,

Has the MM changed or will I still be facing tier VII and VIII in it.

Not got it yet as I am having fun in the lower tiers and had bad memories of it on the test server. Ramping up my free xp still and eliting all the lower tanks before moving on.

Tyrgrim #13 Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

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Well with all the gold ammo flying around, it might be that its hard to get a fair judgement. The main drawback of the tank is that its painfully slow.

Listy #14 Posted 02 November 2012 - 11:55 PM

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View PostTyrgrim, on 02 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Well with all the gold ammo flying around, it might be that its hard to get a fair judgement. The main drawback of the tank is that its painfully slow.

You want Painfully slow, try a Matilda.. A Valentine is a T-50 compared to her. A Valentine has enough speed though. A Matilda not quite.

Rostlaube #15 Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:58 AM

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the valentine is terrible.

it is so slow, by the time i reach the battlefield everyone is dead. either all enemys are dead and i make no exp/credits, or all teammates are dead and i´m alone vs 5 enemys.
but that´s not the worst thing. it has no gunner and so the aiming time is just insane. a gun that deals only 75 damage should not aim forever.
my third complaint: the machmaking is a bad joke. i´m always the smallest tier and have to face lots of tier 6 tanks. some of those tanks can one hit kill me.


i really thought this would be a tank i could enjoy. i own a premium Matilda and Premium Churchill, so i don´t hate slow tanks in general. but this one seems just inferior. the only good thing is the high penetration. but that doesn´t help much, because most of the time i die in the process of aiming a single shot.

Edited by Rostlaube, 03 November 2012 - 10:59 AM.


Shegzor #16 Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:46 PM

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I don't know, I had a relatively good experience playing it yesterday. I'm pretty sure it has the same matchmaker as the Duck (so does the A13, to be honest) - the biggest, baddest thing I went up against was a KV-1S, no tier VIIs or VIIIs. The gun is really good for it's tier, and the thing is really bouncy, and has thick armor. In fact, the only things I was scared of were KV-1S, KV-1 and Hetzers. Those could really ruin my day.

But anyway, the real problem here is - it just can't compare to a Matilda. That thing has superior armor and an insane RoF, high-pen (albeit low damage) gun, and all it loses on is a bit of speed, which with these two tanks is negligible. So in my opinion, bnetween these two, the Matilda wins. It's a very tight win though.

Corvi #17 Posted 04 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

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I really really enjoy driving the Valentine. Feels very strong even with the stock 2 pdr. Didnt even bother upgrading the gun, the stock one is perfectly fine. Very high rof, good accuracy, good pen. Low damage is made up by the high rate of fire, and the 2 pdr has by far the highest dpm for all Valentine guns. Armor is okay, can take a lot of hits from equal tiers, gets penned by higher tiers thou. MM is very nice too, 90% of the time you end up in t4 only rounds where only Hetzer and Matildas are a real competition, everything else is food for the Valentine. It can really shred through enemy lines, just put here in second gear and keep shooting.

Definitely a keeper tank, makes a lots of fun to play it :)

Bingeling #18 Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:06 PM

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I kind of liked it. More than I have ever enjoyed any other tier 4 (though pom-poming in the A13 had its ups too). It probably helps to have played it on the launching weekend of a new tech tree, giving a nicer selection of battles than in an ordinary day.

I kind of liked it, and used it to unlock the Churchill, leaving the Matilda to only unlock a few equipment pieces for itself. Nice gun and decent protection. And slow enough to make sure to punish you if you are very far from where you ought to be. It is cute too, the smallest, cutest heavy tank in the game; pretending to be a light.

anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #19 Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:49 AM

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I like it.

But there are some big inconsistancies comparing the Russian vs the Commonwealth version.

Without detailing the numbers and verification...

Unrealistic pro's for the Russian version:

Better viewrange with an early model turret (why??? Newer turret would mean better viewrange for sure)
Better radio range (wtf, early war model... Russians got the better radio then the Commonwealth forces. Seriously? Giving away radio's with better range then their own Valentines???)
More hitpoints. (do I need to go into this...?)
Better armour. (same, unreasonable...)
Better speed (8.7 horsepower/tonne vs 8.6 horsepower /tonne = 8km/h difference?)


I'm not calling bias... it needs fixing though. A fully upgraded/developed tank should perform better then early models (specifically "premium" tanks)




Specifics (Commonwealth vs Russian (in that order))

Suspension details:

16.5 tonnes  40 degrees traverse  vs 16.85 tonnes 50 degrees traverse (exactly the same suspension)

Engine details:

131 hp vs 140 hp (exactly the same engine) and the top engine for Commonwealth version should have  ~210 hp instead of 165 hp (horsepower, not hitpoints)

Turret details:

Valentine turret Mk. IX (Commonwealth top turret)
front 65
sides 60
rear 65
40  traverse
340m viewrange

Valentine (Lend Lease)
front 65
sides 65
rear 65
48 traverse
350 viewrange

Edited by Costarring, 05 November 2012 - 11:09 AM.


Genjurooo #20 Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:07 PM

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Until the top gun it is bad and really hard to grind, but that gun changes everything.





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