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Brothers in Arms - what does it do?

Brother in arms bia numbers brother armd stats

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EemeIi #1 Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:48 AM

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First some facts:
-Brother in Arms -perk is only activated when all crew members have it trained to 100%
-It stays active even if a crew member is knocked out.
-If active, it increases the primary skill of each crew memeber by 5% (stacks with ventilation and consumables)
-The 5% increase in primary skills corresponds to roughly 2.3% increase in hard stats (correct the number if I'm wrong)

What I wanna know is: what stats? Can someone give me a list like:

view range, radio signal range, rate of fire, accuracy, acceleration, turn rate...

(Why I'm asking is I soon have AMX 13 90 with 2 full skills (camo, 6th sense, smooth ride and designated target). I like to scout with it so I'd like more view range. Situational awareness gives me +3% but am I actually better off taking BiA with 2.3% more and lots of other improvements?)

arbenowskee #2 Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:54 AM

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yes, all stats you mentioned. include all additional skills you've trained (camo, repair, firefighting).

Sounds impressive, doesn't it? But the trick is, there are really not a lot of tanks that NEED to benefit from 2,3% boost across the board. At least not as primary skill. As a supplement to others - yes, but other than arty I'd say there is no tank that should get it as first skill. Some should get it when they've completed 2nd skill (retraining), some when they've completed 4th skill. It really depends on a specific tank. BIA is a bigger boost in drivers mind than in reality (other skills/perks are usually more crucial - again depending on a tank).

AMX 13 90 IMO does benefit from BIA, but only when you've trained camo on all 3 crew members, sixth sense, smooth ride and snap shot. So train it as 3rd skill.

You can retrain and sacrifice a bit of camo and train camo as your 3rd skill. (since camo is a skill and works even if its not 100%, but BIA is a perk so it needs 100% on all crew members to work). Depends on your playstyle.

Edited by arbenowskee, 18 October 2012 - 06:59 AM.


Dwater #3 Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:57 AM

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you basicly answered your own question.
BiA increases the effectivity of everything. From acceleration to loading times. Aim time, repair time, camo value, radio range, view range, etc etc

EemeIi #4 Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:25 AM

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Thanks for answers, but is this the whole list?

2.3% bonus to

View PostEemeIi, on 18 October 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

view range, radio signal range, rate of fire, accuracy, aim time, acceleration, turn rate, turret traverse

(added two, got them from http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Crew from the section analyzing crew roles)

(+5% bonus to repair, camo and firefighting)

Does BiA do anything else?

Edited by EemeIi, 18 October 2012 - 07:26 AM.


hembba #5 Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:37 AM

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It would be easier to list things that it doesnt affect: Armour, damage, penetration. Maybe something else also..? And i think that on autoloader tanks it does not affect to the loading time between shots.

ParEx #6 Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:48 AM

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BiA is the first skill any arty-tanker should have.
Boost in almost everything. Useful on all artys, important on artys with open top ( =  no vents).

On other tanks: my 3rd Skill after repair and some nice perks. (I skip camo and firefighting ... )

arbenowskee #7 Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:51 AM

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View Posthembba, on 18 October 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

And i think that on autoloader tanks it does not affect to the loading time between shots.

correct. It only affects loading the drum.

azakow #8 Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:54 AM

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View PostEemeIi, on 18 October 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

(Why I'm asking is I soon have AMX 13 90 with 2 full skills (camo, 6th sense, smooth ride and designated target). I like to scout with it so I'd like more view range. Situational awareness gives me +3% but am I actually better off taking BiA with 2.3% more and lots of other improvements?)
Your current setup:

Commander:
  • Camo
  • Sixth sence
Gunner:
  • Camo
  • Designated target (+2 sec visible when in 15 degrees of aim)
Driver:
  • Camo
  • Smoth Ride (+4% accuracy)
I also like to scout a lot. My suggestion:
Commander:
  • Camo
  • Sixth sence
  • Situational Awareness (+3%, not a perk)
  • Recon (+2%, not a perk)
Gunner:
  • Camo
  • Designated target (+2 sec visible when in 15 degrees of aim)
  • Snap Shoot (+7.5% accuracy, not a perk)
  • Repair
Driver:
  • Camo
  • Off-Road
  • Cltuch Braking
  • Repair
At complete 4th skill retrain 2x Repair and Rcon a with gold to BIA, the luxury skill.

Why?
Because you will not be able to forefil your fighting duties at the MM you will be facing.

I have been thinking about BIA alot on this vehicle. I've tried it on the current test server.
It does make a noticeable difference in vehicle handling.
On the view range I can not say much since CT is anything but the real server.
Reloading will be 39.xx instead of 40.22 sec.
I was missing the Repair alot.

Reference:
Spoiler                     

Edited by azakow, 18 October 2012 - 08:10 AM.


Rautaa #9 Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:02 AM

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Why don't you recommend Smooth Ride azakow?

azakow #10 Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:20 AM

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View PostRautaa, on 18 October 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Why don't you recommend Smooth Ride azakow?
Anything that improves accuracy is much needed on AMX 13 90.
There are more important skills than Smooth ride, such as Off-Road and Clutch Braking which improove vehicle handling alot since battles do not take place in cities only.
Hence the above given priority.
I will train Smooth ride as the 6th driver skill, because I do have 78% hit rate at current and prefer/need Repair skill much more for my fighting duties.

EemeIi #11 Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:20 AM

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View Postazakow, on 18 October 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

...
I also like to scout a lot. My suggestion:
Commander:
  • Camo
  • Sixth sence
  • Situational Awareness (+3%, not a perk)
  • Recon (+2%, not a perk)
Gunner:
  • Camo
  • Designated target (+2 sec visible when in 15 degrees of aim)
  • Snap Shoot (+7.5% accuracy, not a perk)
  • Repair
Driver:
  • Camo
  • Off-Road
  • Cltuch Braking
  • Repair
At complete 4th skill retrain 2x Repair and Rcon a with gold to BIA, the luxury skill.

Why?
Because you will not be able to forefil your fighting duties at the MM you will be facing.

I have been thinking about BIA alot on this vehicle. I've tried it on the current test server.
It does make a noticeable difference in vehicle handling.
On the view range I can not say much since CT is anything but the real server.
Reloading will be 39.xx instead of 40.22 sec.
I was missing the Repair alot.


Good suggestion and that's exactly why I thought of BiA. For third skill you take
+3% view range, +7.5% accuracy on turret rotation and +5% traverse speed.

Instead BiA gives +2.3% to all, so almost the same view range, half the traverse improvement, and thirds the accuracy (does it affect accyray on turret rotation)? So the main advantage on your setup is snap shot, whereas BiA boosts slightly many other properties (most importantly rof, accuracy, aim time, acceleration).

Repair sure would be nice, but I'm not gonna include it in any of the 3 first secondaries, since one repair kit is enough in almost all the matches.

BTW azakow what's your take on equipment? I currently have optics, vents (no-brainers) and camo net. Will change camo net to binocs in the next discount. [I'd need to do more stationary spotting at start to stay undamaged for the mid match.]

Brraw #12 Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:29 AM

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I've got BiA for the crews of my IS-3 and Type 59.......once they reached the 100% mark , a noticeable difference in traverse speed , aiming time , reload time and pick up of speed overall was gained.  Makes the tank , and everything about it feel that bit sharper.......like the crew have had a good sleep and are feeling all refreshed , and the tanks had a good service or the engine's been blueprinted ( keen bikers will know what I'm on about regards this) . I'd recommend training the crew in BiA , but not from scratch.......train them up in other skills that are unique to each of the crew , and that gain the skill as the training progresses , as opposed to a skill that only comes into effect once it reaches 100%.......once they get to 100% , use a wee bit of gold to switch the skill to BiA.  Maybe not everyones cup o' tea doing it this way , but it works for me... :Smile_Default:

Rautaa #13 Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:35 AM

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View Postazakow, on 18 October 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Anything that improves accuracy is much needed on AMX 13 90.
There are more important skills than Smooth ride, such as Off-Road and Clutch Braking which improove vehicle handling alot since battles do not take place in cities only.
Hence the above given priority.
I will train Smooth ride as the 6th driver skill, because I do have 78% hit rate at current and prefer/need Repair skill much more for my fighting duties.

You are firing a lot on the move, that's why I thought it'd make sense.

My big dilemma now is ELC skills. Driver is 100% Off-Road and chosing between camo, clutch braking, and smooth ride is very difficult.

The multi-purpose commander is an even tougher nut to crack...

Sibble #14 Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:46 AM

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I got it as first skill on my T34 and it was worth it for the difference in the loading time of that ungodly cannon of doom alone, but better acceleration and turning speed are nice additions as well. I'm also getting it for my SuperPershing and I'm thinking about retraining my M103 crew to have it asap.

Dunno about arties, as I don't play them.

banemtheduke #15 Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:11 AM

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I put BIA as first _perk_. That because it works only when 100%. If I leave it for 3rd or 4th skill it is taking forever to master it.

So in general (personally) I rather choose perks for 1st and 2nd skills rather than skills.

azakow #16 Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:18 AM

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View PostEemeIi, on 18 October 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Good suggestion and that's exactly why I thought of BiA. For third skill you take
+3% view range, +7.5% accuracy on turret rotation and +5% traverse speed.

Instead BiA gives +2.3% to all, so almost the same view range, half the traverse improvement, and thirds the accuracy (does it affect accyray on turret rotation)? So the main advantage on your setup is snap shot, whereas BiA boosts slightly many other properties (most importantly rof, accuracy, aim time, acceleration).

Repair sure would be nice, but I'm not gonna include it in any of the 3 first secondaries, since one repair kit is enough in almost all the matches.

BTW azakow what's your take on equipment? I currently have optics, vents (no-brainers) and camo net. Will change camo net to binocs in the next discount. [I'd need to do more stationary spotting at start to stay undamaged for the mid match.]
Snap Shoot only affects sccuracy on turret rotation. Traverse speed is not affected.

The few crew members make it easy to reach high training levels, but at the same time make it very difficult to decide for the correct skill.

Lets start at the beginning. AMX 13 90 is a hybrid vehicle of LT/MT, hence you will need skills of LT and of MT.
Any LT commander will tell you that mobility, camo and view range is important.
Any MT commander will tell you that mobility, accuracy, RoF and repair is important.

The adavantage of the LT commanders is their mobility (horse powers per ton) and view range.
Spoiler                     
The advantage of the MT commanders is the availablity of a v-stab and gasoline for thier vehicles.

Now you are stuck with this hybrid vehicle with very few crew, having to forefil a scouting/spotting and fighting duty imposd on you by the MM.
Here my thoughs on skills and equipment:
  • Your are "fragile" -> Camo, Sixth Sence
  • Your view range is ok -> Camo, Situational Awareness, Ventilation, Optics, Recon
  • Your want to be a good bush scout -> Camo, Designated Target
  • Your horse powers per ton ratio is sub optimal -> Off-Raod, Clutch Braking, Ventilation
  • Your gun is not very accurate -> Snap Shoot, GLD, Ventilation
  • You must take some damage, in order to carry your gun as close as possible to the opponent -> Fire Ext., Repair Kit, Repair skill, Off-Raod, Clutch Braking, Ventilation
  • New maps have rough terrain, hence you do not want to waste a Repair Kit due to terrain. -> Repair skill
If all that is given, I will (you may) switch to BIA.

You are pointing out the main advantage of BIA to be RoF, accuracy, aim time and acceleration. This adresses the MT role, but is insufficent!
True it increases all by about  2.3%. The "real" skills have more effect than that.
Hence BIA is a luxury item on AMX 13 90, just like icing on a cake.

Try diffrent setup on test server.
See what Off-Road and Clutch Braking do for your vehicle.
You will be impressed!

Edit:
Camo net at 3x camo skill training -> wasted module slot.
See spoiler above for modules.

Edited by azakow, 18 October 2012 - 09:41 AM.


deveen23 #17 Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:38 AM

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View PostSibble, on 18 October 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Dunno about arties, as I don't play them.

Very useful, you notice it the most on loading time, and aiming time to a degree. If you consider high tier arty shooting every 35 seconds or so, it shaves off a second or two on reloading, which helps. I would say that generally BiA is noticed the most on the loading speed, those extra tenths of second will save your bacon at times.

BoosB #18 Posted 18 October 2012 - 09:44 AM

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good posts Azakow. Wish I had more plusses for you!

mondog #19 Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:28 AM

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I have bia and vents on nearly all my tanks now. The overall boost is noticeable over a stock tank. That mixed with fuel and other % bonus perks gives you quite a substantial bonus over a standard tank. When it means you can do everything a little bit better its worth it.

6060842 #20 Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:35 AM

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I was under the impression that BiA affects only the main skill (Driver, Gunner, etc) and the skills that are common to all (Repair, Camo and Firefighting) and not the crewman-specific skills such as Clutch Braking, Recon, etc.

Can someone provide a link to either confirm or deny this?