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Leopard vs VK2801 Which is the best scout?


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Hokum15 #1 Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

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I’ve been playing with both of these a lot recently.

I’ve been noticing that though my leo crew a much more experienced the leo seems to be a better passive scout then the VK2801.

It’s smaller, it’s a little bit more nimble too when dodging between obstacles allowing easier access to some camping spots.

Don’t get me wrong, as an active scout or Arty Jager the VK2801 is superior. Care of its 105mm howitzer and higher top speed. But then running camo nets and bino’s the Leo has the edge over the VK2801 in the same positions.

What do others think?

Tazilon #2 Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:39 PM

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I think because of the crazy-weak gun the leopard has, it is no contest.  The Leopard can't defend itself or kill what it sees.  The 2801 frequently can.  I think overall, the Tier IV Scouts get the absolute worst matchups in the game.

Hokum15 #3 Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:55 PM

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That’s the thing, as you have a pop gun your less tempted to attack, so you concentrate on spotting and keeping concealed. If the leo had a better gun you’d be more tempted to fire and blow your cover.

Saying that, I have bagged a Tiger and an M26 in one match with the Leo.

Lancasthor #4 Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:08 PM

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Transferred my 1300+ matches old Leo crew via Luchs to Pz38NA

If you manage to survive and even enjoy playing Leo, you'll wreck havoc with 38NA since it works equally good as a scout and ends in tier IV matches much.
Only thing in Leo what might make it worth keeping is the awesome ramming potential.

Alexeiy #5 Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:30 AM

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Mhm after 620+ games in my Leo and only 100+ games in the vk2801, I think both tanks are able to win battles, but the Leo is a bit better in doing so (have in both 61% WR). For me the leo is by far the more funny tank to play for several reasons,
- while the vk2801 is a bit better in figthing, the Leo is the better overall passivscout compared to his average opponents.
- The leo looks way better (big plus)
- the leo is more agil
- you shot more often in the Leo, giving it a for me faster gameplay, because while you're driving you have to do a bit more than on the vk2801 (although it is only aiming and clicking the left mouse bottom 2,5times more often^^)
- the leo is a "beast" in t5 and t6 games, and thanks to the new MM you have these games really often and the only undefeatable enemys are Kv's  :Smile-angry: (had some matches where I dealt 1,2k dmg and killed a few tanks, although thanks to your peashoot you don't often get the kill, but I also had some battles, where a kv roflstomp your team and you can not do anything about it, these games are the most annoying T5 games)
- your tonne/enemy tonnes ratio is also better in the leo, so you can ram more often and easier and you can jump of cliffs to kill small enemys (ramming is always fun^^)
- you make a better profit in the Leo so you can optain a higher tier via playing a fun scout (the vk2801 make a to small profit for that)
- you see more different tanks (T3-t9), while the vk sees (T5-T10)
- your "armor" is better compared to your counterparts (the average pen doubles from T5 to T8)
- nobody expect you to do something useful, because the average T4 scout player is a total noob and suicide rushs for the next tank
- the Leo is balanced around more idiots, so it probably never see a nerf and perhabs it will be buffed sometime (probably by giving it even less MM weigth)

The most annoying things about the Leo is the low gun depression(well same goes for the vk) and that it's pen is 10-20mm to low (if it would have a pen of 80-90 it could reliably pen every opponent to T8 into the sides/rear), but i find the HE on the vk even more annoying, because it's not reliable, dealing sometimes great damage and way too often only 80-150 dmg, atleast in the leo i know i won't pen so I don't even try.
Anoher downside of the Leo is that you have more matches where you feel totally useless, because you can't turn the battle activly and see your team loose or win

Don't get me wrong, I have both tanks in my garage and both are fun to play, but the Leo just sees the battlefield more often

Tazilon #6 Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:54 AM

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Both of them are capable passive scouts.  But, especially later in the game, when you need your Scouts to help damage the remaining enemy, the Leopard can't unless it is in a low tier match.  No matter what tanks are left in a match, the Cougar can help damage or kill them.  The Leopard can not.  That is a HUGE difference.

Alexeiy #7 Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:56 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 23 October 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Both of them are capable passive scouts.  But, especially later in the game, when you need your Scouts to help damage the remaining enemy, the Leopard can't unless it is in a low tier match.  No matter what tanks are left in a match, the Cougar can help damage or kill them.  The Leopard can not.  That is a HUGE difference.

Well the vk2801 is a better figther in the end, but it's influence in high tier battles is not that high, so it kinda equallys out with the leo. But as I said the Leo is (compared to his counterparts) the way better passivscout and even active scout (although it is not much  :Smile_smile: , because both tanks kinda suck in T-50 stylish active scouting). So in the end it's more a question about what you prefer, a passiv scout which has a big influence in the beginning/mid battle and normally a small influence in the end game (although this "small amount" can be huge in low tier battles) with the leo or a passiv scout/figther kinda playstlye of the vk2801, which is useful in all stages of the battle.

Tazilion I respect your opinion and I have read your vk guide myself to get better in scouting, but perhabs you are a bit biased towards the vk2801 ^^. For myself the Leo is the better scout tank, according to the duty of scouting (which is in my opinion the biggest influence to win a game), while the vk2801 trys to equal his drawbacks out with its fire power, but in my opinion the 10,5cm HE gun is not enough for that (exspecially with a lousy gun depression).
Mostly because I think it is better to help your teammates to kill the enemy than to try it yourself in a scout tank, because your commrads are normally way better than you in doing so, but thats just my 2 cents.

woe2you #8 Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:29 AM

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The VK2801 packs more of a punch than the Leo, and it's a bit faster at the top end. In order to get the best out of it, you need Clutch Braking and Off-Road Driving. The really important thing though, is that the VK2801 is capable of one-shotting artillery up to Tier 6 using the 105mm with HE, making it a versatile all-round scout and direct arty killer, and it is capable of winning high-tier games. I'm with Tazilon on this one.

Here's a Tier 10 match that amply proves my point.

Edited by woe2you, 24 October 2012 - 12:36 AM.


Tazilon #9 Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:57 PM

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View PostAlexeiy, on 23 October 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Well the vk2801 is a better figther in the end, but it's influence in high tier battles is not that high, so it kinda equallys out with the leo. But as I said the Leo is (compared to his counterparts) the way better passivscout and even active scout (although it is not much  :Smile_smile: , because both tanks kinda suck in T-50 stylish active scouting). So in the end it's more a question about what you prefer, a passiv scout which has a big influence in the beginning/mid battle and normally a small influence in the end game (although this "small amount" can be huge in low tier battles) with the leo or a passiv scout/figther kinda playstlye of the vk2801, which is useful in all stages of the battle.

Tazilion I respect your opinion and I have read your vk guide myself to get better in scouting, but perhabs you are a bit biased towards the vk2801 ^^. For myself the Leo is the better scout tank, according to the duty of scouting (which is in my opinion the biggest influence to win a game), while the vk2801 trys to equal his drawbacks out with its fire power, but in my opinion the 10,5cm HE gun is not enough for that (exspecially with a lousy gun depression).
Mostly because I think it is better to help your teammates to kill the enemy than to try it yourself in a scout tank, because your commrads are normally way better than you in doing so, but thats just my 2 cents.

I wasn't biased until I played all the Tier V Scouts.  The bias comes from experience.  I never understand why gun depression matters much for a Scout because you rarely use it.  The 2801 is a very capable Scout plus MORE - which is exactly what is design specification called for.  That makes it unique.  And better   :P

Alexeiy #10 Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:21 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 24 October 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I wasn't biased until I played all the Tier V Scouts.  The bias comes from experience.  I never understand why gun depression matters much for a Scout because you rarely use it.  The 2801 is a very capable Scout plus MORE - which is exactly what is design specification called for.  That makes it unique.  And better   :P

Well people experience things differently, so you are probably as much biased towards the vk2801 as I am towards the Leo, for me the Leo is better as a T4 scout than the Vk2801 as a T5 scout.

But I also think/experienced that the best scout overall (compared to his opponents) is the M5, because it is a vk2801 in small, but (compared to his counterparts) has a better viewrange, better firepower, better camo and it has gundepression,than the vk and the biggest drawback is the hp pool and maximum speed.

Sliktastic #11 Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:28 PM

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I dont know.... Even if I have 1295 Battles in the Leo and I cant sell him, because I love it so much. BUT: I have to go this time with Tazilion, compare to the VK 2801 has the Leo no change (as already mention mainly because of the firepower). So yes it is my most use tank and I cant sell it (thats why I havent a open slot for the VK 2801 and a crew from him), but also as the OP asked "Leopard vs VK2801 Which is the best scout?" I would say this point goes clearly to the tier V light tnak (which are currently more of a 5.5 tier as was the tier IX meds in the past). So comparision between the two the Leo losses, nevertheless it says nothing about his qualitys as tier IV light tank, I think in its tier it is fairly balance and really fun to use (as I can tell from own experience).

Edited by Staufen, 24 October 2012 - 05:36 PM.


napo_LEON #12 Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:40 PM

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I have on my VK2801 over 2k battles and I must say... its the best scout ever, but you need to have 3-4 extra skill on any crew member (driver's skills are most important ) then you can very fast get to the spot positions, also with105 mm gun you are able to penetrate/kill any tank in the game

tomatojim #13 Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:03 PM

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View Postwoe2you, on 24 October 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

The VK2801 packs more of a punch than the Leo, and it's a bit faster at the top end. In order to get the best out of it, you need Clutch Braking and Off-Road Driving. The really important thing though, is that the VK2801 is capable of one-shotting artillery up to Tier 6 using the 105mm with HE, making it a versatile all-round scout and direct arty killer, and it is capable of winning high-tier games. I'm with Tazilon on this one.

Here's a Tier 10 match that amply proves my point.

well played, but that victory was a gift to your team.  :Smile_blinky:

_Waste_ #14 Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 24 October 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I wasn't biased until I played all the Tier V Scouts.  The bias comes from experience.  I never understand why gun depression matters much for a Scout because you rarely use it.  The 2801 is a very capable Scout plus MORE - which is exactly what is design specification called for.  That makes it unique.  And better   :P


Uhm from your scouts guide you are telling us that u solde the leo pretty fast and u dident know how to drive it..i could quote you on that sr..  :Smile_blinky:  The leo is a better ninja scout then couger and a pretty good intercepter...The problem is the gun cant pentrate anything..Dont get me wrong itis a perfect arty /td killer in lvl 6 and below :Smile_smile:

Tazilon #15 Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:12 AM

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View Post_Waste_, on 27 October 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

he leo is a better ninja scout then couger and a pretty good intercepter...The problem is the gun cant pentrate anything..

Does it help to intercept something you can't stop or kill?

I think the Leopard should make out very well with the MM changes and if you read the entire body of my posts online, you will see me frequently defend the Leopard by stating before the Tier V Scouts came out, the Leopard was considered the best Scout in the game.  But the Tier Vs changed that.  ALL...ALL...ALL the Tier V Scouts are better than the Leopard.

Edited by Tazilon, 28 October 2012 - 02:15 AM.





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