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JUDrFeelgood #21 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:40 PM

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Please, community managers, dont play that youre retarded. Only solution to limit arty is set to MM MAX value for one team 4xSPGs.

Raising SPG expenses will only lead to buying VIII moneymaker and playing SPG further. Community is not that stupid, bad try.

HelHammer #22 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:40 PM

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and forcing players to not play a certain type of tank is just not fair................ :Smile_mellow:

CarroStimpak #23 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:40 PM

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Wait instead of fixing the MM adding a cap to the arties per game you just cut their credits? Are you kidding me or are you serious about this being called "fixing"?

Yemo #24 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:43 PM

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View PostEctar, on 17 September 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Greetings commanders,

Over the past few weeks we've noticed that there has been a rise in topics about artillery/spg's.

Which is not surprising, since there has been an increase in arty spam in matches. And since this is not the first arty wave, your suggestion that the problem is "new" is misleading and frankly impudent...

View PostEctar, on 17 September 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

These topics always have the same content, a screen shot of a battle with an angry message about how MM needs fixed. Now unless the "search" function isn't working and no one has told us about this, it would take a few short moments for players to see there is already an existing topic about what they're about to post, and there is no need for a new topic..   Today alone I've seen 3 threads created.

It is somehow ironic that you complain about the anti-arty-thread-spam and that people are obviously unwilling to search for existing topics, when wg is obviously unwilling to deal with the arty-spam problem in a non-pseudo-actionism (aka non-limiting) way...

View PostEctar, on 17 September 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

The reason for this pinned thread is for players to provide feedback about SPG's and also to cover a few points so that people are aware of what's going on. This thread will be updated with any new information relation to SPG's and MM.

*last updated 17/09/2012*
  • YES, since the new MM changes we're aware of matches where you may encounter high amounts of SPG's (6 plus per side). These matches are still however rare and not the norm.
  • The problem is only really active at tier 9 and 10. It's very rare that in lower tier games you will have more than 4 arty per side.
  • A fix is being added to 8.0 to make credit generation for tier 8 arty in line with tier 10 tanks. these means tier 8 arty won't be as profitable as they are now which may discourage some players from playing them so frequently.
  • If the 8.0 fix doesn't make a noticeable difference in the rare occasions where there is 8 or more arty per side in a team, we will look into further ways to balance things out.
Please remember to keep your feedback constructive and on topic. Any new topics will be closed and players directed to here.

Regards

Ectar

ad 1: Your suggestion that this is a rare problem is even more impudent than your implied claim about the general novelty of this problem. This is neither an alzheimer community nor one of pure retards. Please dont adress us in such a fashion.

ad 2: Agree with that, however 4 arties is still too much, the general forum oppinion is, that 2 is fine and 3 bearable.

ad 3: As the forum agrees, this wont solve the problem.

ad 4: So you will only act after 8.0 and if there are occasions with 8 artillery per side?:Smile_trollface-3:

And you sell that as a strategy to deal with the problem??

I guess this is accurately described as a troll post, I would report it as such, but somehow I feel that this would be useless...

Edited by Yemo, 17 September 2012 - 02:06 PM.


X1376 #25 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:44 PM

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View PostEctar, on 17 September 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

*last updated 17/09/2012*
  • YES, since the new MM changes we're aware of matches where you may encounter high amounts of SPG's (6 plus per side). These matches are still however rare and not the norm.
I do realize you have statistics in your hand, but my subjective feeling is more valuable to me. And that feeling says those matches are not rare. Honestly, it is a bit dissapointing there there is after so long time with arty in this game still no cap on platoon size maximum.

ngardet #26 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:44 PM

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1. This is total BS, it happens all the time in high tier games.
2. True, so you know exactly what the problem is and yet you do not communicate about it. Even worse, you start talking about it because you cannot stand the forum being flooded with angry posts. This is again evidence of your total lack of communication strategy and skills.
3. Wrong solution, so basically you are avoiding the easy fix and putting the burden on the players by rendering SPGs unplayable at high tier. This is again evidence of your total lack of understanding.
4. So what you are saying is that we haven't seen the end of this mess since more problems will arise in 8.0.

Bottom line, you screwed up and are making the players pay for it. It looks like from now on this game stops at tier 8.
Talent is really not something you develop and you are showing it every day.
Mediocrity is something you attract by hiring more bozos and you are showing it every day.

deveen23 #27 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:45 PM

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View PostEctar, on 17 September 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:


2. The problem is only really active at tier 9 and 10. It's very rare that in lower tier games you will have more than 4 arty per side.


This is true, and one of the reasons I find most enjoyment in battles with my tier 5-6 tanks. Tier 9 and 10 tanks, I would have to look far back to remember a battle with no arty, even with 1-2 arty. And playing tier 7 piece of arty myself, it's usually 3-4 arties a side.

While I can see credit nerf will reduce use of high tier arty, I don't think it will have such an impact. Limiting number of arty (I would set it at 3 per side), or any other class of tank for that matter, might be the right step to take, but I guess it would create MM and queue time issues. I do believe most players would be willing to wait a few seconds more in order to get better balance.

TopSecret81 #28 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

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View PostHelHammer, on 17 September 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

"A fix is being added to 8.0 to make credit generation for tier 8 arty in line with tier 10 tanks. these means tier 8 arty won't be as profitable as they are now which may discourage some players from playing them so frequently."
Who call this a fix ????
in 0.7.5 the repair is 22 k kerdit and the shelss are 1664
and if i fire 11 shoots and i get destryed thats =40304 k cerdit.....
i dont think that this will stop me from playing my arty's :Smile_veryhappy:

I dont get them at all ..
They will cut profit with tier8 arty that in best case scenario makes profit only if arty player is not killed.
If he is killed nearly always is simple loss.

Seeing here that people complain that with top tiers TDs, tanks even with premium they lose credits, well on average with premium i make small amounts even with losses with any top tier tank, but rarely i make with arty if im dead..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
===============================================
WG must think,  WE , players are bunch of dumb-asses ???

Why dont you go other way if touching credits is solution, reward top tier tanks with extra 20% credit income????

maybe that could cut down number of arty in game , and im sure there would be more happy players than with you nerf of income .

CarroStimpak #29 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:52 PM

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I agree aswell to some of the other players have said... You cannot stand this flooding of arty ranting topics but instead of solving the problem (that is here from a lot of time) you just create a topic for players to submit a feedback that you won't ready at all?   Either you read the forum and don't give a fuck about the players opinion or you don't read the forum at all,you don't create hypocrital false solutions.

mondog #30 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:53 PM

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View PostEctar, on 17 September 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

  • YES, since the new MM changes we're aware of matches where you may encounter high amounts of SPG's (6 plus per side). These matches are still however rare and not the norm.
  • The problem is only really active at tier 9 and 10. It's very rare that in lower tier games you will have more than 4 arty per side.
  • A fix is being added to 8.0 to make credit generation for tier 8 arty in line with tier 10 tanks. these means tier 8 arty won't be as profitable as they are now which may discourage some players from playing them so frequently.
  • If the 8.0 fix doesn't make a noticeable difference in the rare occasions where there is 8 or more arty per side in a team, we will look into further ways to balance things out.

1 - Its quite normal at lower tiers. But its tier 8+ you see allot of arty.
2 - That isn't always true. It affects tier 8 and up.
3 - How is that a fix? WG has said that 12% of tanks in a match making pool is arty. So by that figure then spread that 12% out over all the games. Don't nerf arty them selves.
4 - These occasions are not rare. Just put a hard limit on the amount of arty that can be put into a match to 6 or 4.

Yemo #31 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:58 PM

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So what will the effect of the profitability decrease of tier 7 & 8 arty be?

1. Tier 7 & 8 arties will be effectively premium arties.

2. Instead of those 6+ arty matches you will have 5+ arty matches in tiers 9 & 10 (and 8).

3. Those players not willing or able to play tier 7 & 8 arties anymore will play something else. I take a wild guess here, but maybe they will play tier 6 arties instead...

4. Since the numbers of tier 6 arties increase, the arty-spam (more than 3 arties per team) will then be in tier 8 (and 7) as common as it is in tiers 9 and 10 at the moment...

Of course this is pure and wild speculation... :facepalmic:

Edited by Yemo, 17 September 2012 - 01:59 PM.


Vaderan #32 Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:58 PM

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At least good to see some reaction from official side on this arty-situation.

However, i don´t beleave that making (tier 8) arty less profitable will solve the situation at all. Community demands an arty-limit per side of two for... i don´t know...1,5-2 years by now, keeps complaining about arty dominated matches (and it doesn´t require 5+ spgs per side to screw up a match, a well coordinated platoon of 3 tier 6 spgs can do it aswell!), and all you do is trying to make arty less attractive/profitable.
I understand that it is very difficult to find a balance between satisfying non arty players and arty players at the same time.
However, the attempt of making arty less attractive to play won´t work out. It won´t stop convinced arty players to gather in platoons, and it won´t prevent more then 2 spg´s per side taking part in battles. All it will do, is take more credits from arty players and/or force them to support their "passion" by spending gold, nothing that will make them either feel better, nor stop them playing arty.
It is the same as it is for the drivers of the underpowered german tier X heavies. You know, that your vehicle won´t make profit and your gun might be good for a laugh or two, but since you grinded all the way up to it, you play it anyway (until you make it up to another tier IX/X tank).

By the way, this is where your coment, Ectar, hit´s pretty hard: large numbers of artys mostly hit tier IX/X games. That´s exactly where they have the most influence, and where most people get enraged. It is on these battles, where tanks are most expensive to maintain, it´s those battles, where players work hardest for to get there (get their high tier tank), and it´s in those battles, where the combination of frustration hits hardest.
There is just no fun in it when your complete battle gets ruined after less than two minutes, just because you didn´t manage to bring your Maus/E-100/JdPzE100 to a save spot in time. One or two spg´s per side might miss an exposed target at their first attempt, but 4+ have a decent chance to rape you within seconds.
An increaso of maintenance costs for spgs won´t change that.

Don´t break your heads about how to adjust arty, how to change/fix it, how to balance it out... Just limit the max number to two per side, and the game will balance itsself. This will provide a wider spread of spg´s to all games, but avoid arty dominated battles at large parts...

This idea/demand isn´t new, it´s as old as this game...time to listen to it, i would dare to say!

Skullblazer #33 Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:00 PM

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Spg are completely umbalanced atm, the damage they done is compared to the health pools is enormous, crew and module damage is the same, also the ability to fire in td mode, the speed of french arty really look into that mess and cut this crap.

Murphy1up #34 Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:01 PM

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View Postfnaves_POR, on 17 September 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

This is going to be a hot thread....
The only problem is really the number of artys per game in high tier games, more then 3 per side ruins gameplay even for arty... credit nerf will not fix that.

even do we have to agree that mm is much better now excluding the arty issue

It's good that the thread is active and hot. This keeps the forums free from all the dupe topics and then counter "oh not not another arty thread" topics.  Also there may be 5 topic active with only the same 4 or 5 people talking in each of them, those conversations can easily be condensed into one.

View PostClurichaun, on 17 September 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

:Smile_trollface-3:  

Getting a little bit jaded I think :Smile-tongue:  
although thats to be expected , this community is prety dense   :Smile_veryhappy:

Not at all, we're just looking at ways to trim down parts of the forums where there is duplicate information or topics that don't help things much. That's why if someone asks about a specific tank etc, it's normally moved from gameplay discussion to the specific tank section.. Advice on the Type 59 or Type 62 for example is best found in the Chinese Vehicles section.

View PostJUDrFeelgood, on 17 September 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Please, community managers, dont play that youre retarded. Only solution to limit arty is set to MM MAX value for one team 4xSPGs.

Raising SPG expenses will only lead to buying VIII moneymaker and playing SPG further. Community is not that stupid, bad try.

The solution isn't from the Community Team JUDrFeelgood. This is from the dev team. We're just relaying the message.  I'd like to see arty capped but I don't know if a system like that can be done.  I note myself the problem is only excess SPG's.. You don't for example see excess Scouts.   Feedback on what players think would be a good change is much appreciated and we look forward to seeing the suggestions.

Skullblazer #35 Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:07 PM

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i don't understand why in a year+ that i play this game every tank from ligh to t10 as been nerfed or balance but not arty, why? can you explain this ectar?

HieX0r #36 Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:08 PM

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Development team:

Physics?, no problem! Reduce tier spread in MM?, no problem! Improve game mechanics? No problem!
Reduce the maximum numbers of SPG's per team? Hmmm, better not, it might cause the time continuum to collapse and the universe to implode.

brick128 #37 Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:12 PM

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View PostEctar, on 17 September 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:


*last updated 17/09/2012*
  • YES, since the new MM changes we're aware of matches where you may encounter high amounts of SPG's (6 plus per side). These matches are still however rare and not the norm.
  • The problem is only really active at tier 9 and 10. It's very rare that in lower tier games you will have more than 4 arty per side.
  • A fix is being added to 8.0 to make credit generation for tier 8 arty in line with tier 10 tanks. these means tier 8 arty won't be as profitable as they are now which may discourage some players from playing them so frequently.
  • If the 8.0 fix doesn't make a noticeable difference in the rare occasions where there is 8 or more arty per side in a team, we will look into further ways to balance things out.


1. No, they are not rare. They are common if not standard.

2. True. But in tier 8 battles the amount starts to grow hard now. Within a month or so it will have the same amounts as the top tier games.

3. So the fix Wg gives us is the following.
You make them no fun to play in the hope people won't use them as much?
So all the poor souls who grinded them get their tank rendered useless because WG can't balance them?

So sorry but this is retarded.

4. You tried to balance them from the moment WoT went public, what makes you think it will work now?


And now for the million dollar question.

Has WG ever given a official statement why they won't cap them like the EU community has been asking for, for over a year now?
If there is a statement, can you please give me the link where I can find it.

zmeul #38 Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:22 PM

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@Ectar

wasn't it the issue since the very beginning, when the 1st reports of too many SPGs are entering in battle!?
this issue is not new and I believe it was even noticed in the closed beta sessions, and that was 2 years ago, since then the situation was dismissed and now it's delayed
'till when

you say t8 SPGs will see some kind or "balancing" (and I recall the both t7 and 8 will be hit, not just t8) and let's say this works
now we have SPG players that need to farm Cr, what will they do, well they use the t7 and even t6 SPGs, and since there is no hard cap on the number/battle the issue still continue
the Cr income nerf or actually the repair bill boost is a not think thru fix, it's just a placebo like placeholder and nothing more
it will not solve the issue

this "fix" will only increase the number of SPGs in the lower tier battles and nothing more, it will just shift the problem from the t10 to t7-9

he reports of too many SPGs/battle will continue, and I encourage the affected players to do so, until the MM is properly fixed

just a few days ago I played my M48, I rarely play anymore now (maybe 10 games a day or so) and when I saw more than half of the players in SPGs (it's redundant to even post the screen)  I just informed the teams and existed the battle

Quote

You don't for example see excess Scouts.
because scouts can be dealt with
SPGs just sit in the back of the map and shoot at you and you can't respond
I've seen a lot of matches when played just simply won't attack because the enemy arty would just pulverize them at first glance

Edited by zmeul, 17 September 2012 - 02:38 PM.


przemoli #39 Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:32 PM

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Ectar

Can you give us info about what WG define as too much arty in one battle? What cases WG would not like to see ? There is probably no oficial statement about that.

Are you fine with 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 arties per side?

MadInAShed #40 Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:33 PM

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View PostEctar, on 17 September 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

........................  Feedback on what players think would be a good change is much appreciated and we look forward to seeing the suggestions.

You appreciate players suggestions as it enables the christmas crackers at WG palace to actually make the staff laugh?
How many times do you want to be told/asked/suggested...you yourself have said there are a million topics about SPG's for crying out loud and the majority of them all say the same thing and have good suggestions about the answer.

As has been said previously in this thread, so they can make complicated algorythms to calculate damage/angles/loss of pen over distance/view/MM itself but cannot work out how to put a limit for 3 spg per side per battle....
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