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The Crusader is painfully slow for a flanker.

crusader light

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Mucker #41 Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:36 AM

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The insane gun depression on this tank (like on its parents) really makes this a nice alternative to other T5 tanks. If the terrain permits it you can pew pew most tanks to death while exposing maybe 5 % of your frontal area.

I delayed a cap on Sand River all alone against 5 enemy tanks at once all shooting at me but not hitting me once in like 2 minutes. Any other T5 tank in that situation would have been toast quickly.

StronkiTonki #42 Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

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Funny to see this topic since just yesterday I discussed the Crusader with a friend of mine. We eventually also came to the fact that we can't really compare the Crusader to any other tank, since it's a T5 Light tank, but does not serve as designated scout like all the other tier 5 lights.

I do own the Crusader too at the moment, and I guess the mobility could improve a bit, howerver, my crew is far from 100%, so I expect it should be better with a 100% crew.
But all in all, I don't find this such a bad tank. Not very special either, but I'm happy enough with it since I do get most exp of my team a suprisingly lot times.

Edited by Royboy94, 11 December 2012 - 11:59 AM.


Shufuni #43 Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

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I too had issues when I first played this tank, scratching my head as to how I was going to be effective. Playing solo proved very unsuccessful; however, when my friend also bought this tank, platooning changed the whole picture. Now we wait until our enemies are discovered, then we flank and harry targets already engaged, spitting hot needles of lead/steel/depleted uranium/rubber bullets from our rapid fire guns. It is still early days, but this tactic has proved to be successful and bags of fun  :Smile_Default:

Rautaa #44 Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:30 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 11 December 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Pz III/IV dings much more and has a better gun.

Interesting. Did you perform a DPM comparison between the two?

Rautaa #45 Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

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View PostSteerpike, on 11 December 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

I think the point is it has almost identical or worse features to the already woeful M7 MT. You can still be effective relative to the average player you meet in tier V, but that has little to do with the Crusader.

The only bonus it gets from the light tank classification should be the same camouflage on the move as stationary.

Woeful M7? My efficiency on the "woeful" M7 is 2 491, and win rate 57.0%. Are you sure it's not just a matter of the M7 and the Crusader not suiting your playstyle?

The Crusader is a better damage dealer, but the M7 is a better scout so it balances out. The M7 is more useful in high tier games, the Crusader against its own tier.

Schorremorrie #46 Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

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I got the Crusader yesterday and much to my siprise I really like it.
It is capable of doing a lot of damage while driving around and doing stop and go shooting.
It feels easier to handle in that than the PzIV to me.

The best I did was this: http://mwreplays.com/replayimg/3e4a2dc2dead44b237c45987bd8974d1.png

Cobra6 #47 Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

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View PostRautaa, on 11 December 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Interesting. Did you perform a DPM comparison between the two?

PzIII/IV:
Damage Penetration
110/110/175 HP  110/158/38 mm

Crusader:
Damage Penetration
75/75/100 HP 110/180/30 mm

Since DPM relies on the pre-requisit you stay alive at least a minute it's negelegable as the Crusader will die before the Pz III/IV does as it has virtually no armour. The only thing that counts is alpha damage.

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Lord_Demon #48 Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:05 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 11 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

PzIII/IV:
Damage Penetration
110/110/175 HP  110/158/38 mm (from Wiki, don't know if it has the L48 buff specs in it already, don't think so so this might actually be higher)

Crusader:
Damage Penetration
75/75/100 HP 110/180/30 mm

Since DPM relies on the pre-requisit you stay alive at least a minute it's negelegable as the Crusader will die before the Pz III/IV does as it has virtually no armour. The only thing that counts is alpha damage.

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IF you are able to engage targets at long distance (over 300 meters or so) while in cover, Then the durability does not matter. Crusader does some really nice work when shooting from distance, or using others to spot on closer range.

Cobra6 #49 Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:16 PM

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True, but how often do you REALLY end up in long range fights with a Crusader/PzIII/IV ? Additionally the 7,5L48 is more accurate (0,39 compared to 0,41)

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Rautaa #50 Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:25 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 11 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Since DPM relies on the pre-requisit you stay alive at least a minute it's negelegable as the Crusader will die before the Pz III/IV does as it has virtually no armour. The only thing that counts is alpha damage.


The Crusader gun fires every 2 seconds (never shoot just once) and has 25% more DPM than the PzIII/IV. You get to put that DPM to use in every battle, unless you frontally engage enemies that can one-shot you, but that would be stupid with any tank.

war4peace #51 Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

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View PostRoyboy94, on 11 December 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

I do own the Crusader too at the moment, and I guess the mobility could improve a bit, howerver, my crew is far from 100%, so I expect it should be better with a 100% crew.
But all in all, I don't find this such a bad tank. Not very special either, but I'm happy enough with it since I do get most exp of my team a suprisingly lot times.

I find the Crusader an EXCELLENT tank. When comparing it with all my other T5 tanks, I found it to be in top with 78% win ratio (albeit only after 14 battles).
Tanks with extremes I favor most. The Crusader has excellent pen with the 75 damage Churchill gun and this, combined with high RoF, ensures you can pen even T6 enemies from a good distance. Yes, it's a light tank but you really need to play it like a support nagger, just stinging enemies from a distance like a sowing machine.

Cobra6 #52 Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:44 PM

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View PostRautaa, on 11 December 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

The Crusader gun fires every 2 seconds (never shoot just once) and has 25% more DPM than the PzIII/IV. You get to put that DPM to use in every battle, unless you frontally engage enemies that can one-shot you, but that would be stupid with any tank.

How can you put all that DPM to use? That is Damage Per MINUTE, meaning you have to constantly fire to achieve that damage.
In most battles you get about the same amount of shots off as a PzIII/IV because you have to get behind cover, need to aim etc. Most good tankers won't expose themselves until they are ready to fire which means the RPM is the same so only damage output per shot counts in that instance.

That is why I said the alpha damage is more important.

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Rautaa #53 Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:54 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 11 December 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

How can you put all that DPM to use? That is Damage Per MINUTE, meaning you have to constantly fire to achieve that damage.
In most battles you get about the same amount of shots off as a PzIII/IV because you have to get behind cover, need to aim etc. Most good tankers won't expose themselves until they are ready to fire which means the RPM is the same so only damage output per shot counts in that instance.

That is why I said the alpha damage is more important.

I assume this makes French autoloaders completely useless too?

The gun is so fast, that it's effectively burst damage. You'll get 2 shots off before the average enemy even has time to react. Depending on that reaction, you can shoot 2-3 times more, unless the enemy just chooses to ignore you in your pathetic light tank. This is where the DPM really kicks in.  :Smile_trollface-3:

I admit, that on average I fire only ~20 shots per round. Good rounds (wins) are always 30+ shots and the best rounds I run out of ammo (65 capacity).

Cobra6 #54 Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

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The only tank I've managed to consistenly run out of ammo was the M10 Wolverine because it had the chaingun of doom when it was first released, don't know if they nerfed it yet. Platooning with Arkhell we frequently run out of ammo while dishing out punishment left and right :D Might buy that one back actually, it was great fun and I had the M36 in no time which in turn was kind of a let down (the M18 however is sort of the M10 on it's tier).

I've played the Crusader and so far I don't like it (yet). That might change though.

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Edited by Cobra6, 11 December 2012 - 02:10 PM.


Navarome #55 Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:21 PM

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View PostXxXSpottedYouXxX, on 03 November 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Its rubbish tank needs a serious bluff.


ahaha, bluff

azakow #56 Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:51 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 11 December 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

How can you put all that DPM to use? That is Damage Per MINUTE, meaning you have to constantly fire to achieve that damage.
In most battles you get about the same amount of shots off as a PzIII/IV because you have to get behind cover, need to aim etc. Most good tankers won't expose themselves until they are ready to fire which means the RPM is the same so only damage output per shot counts in that instance.
How to put it to use?
Find an advantages spot and constantly fire, until the ammo rack is depleted.
The amount of shots taken per battle is significatly higher than with other tier 5 tanks. The challenge is to hit the target.

It is possible to achive about 21 shells per battle. Only a few low tier auto cannon vehicles are able to top this.
Spoiler                     

Remember the special MM you will have teams with an avarage battle experience of about 2-3k matches on both sides.

You will like it soon. :Smile_honoring:

FatigueGalaxy #57 Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

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Don't underestimate the Light Tank camo value. Crusader is tier 5 light tank with great camo and he fights vehicles with very limited view range - tier 5-7 HTs and TDs are basically blind.
Gun and mobility is comparable to tier 5 medium tank. Gun depression is great, DPM is great - ppl will ignore your 75 dmg pew pew pew and after few shot there will be too late for them to do anything.
IMO nothing to complain.

But I have to agree - it's hard to make Crusader work. It's not a tank for every player IMO.

XxXSpottedYouXxX #58 Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

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View PostNavarome, on 11 December 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

ahaha, bluff

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Listy #59 Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

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View PostRautaa, on 11 December 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

During the time it took you to lead and aim, I would have fired 3-4 times just leading, potentially tracking my target in the process. You just have to let go of your hit ratio to play this vehicle. :)

Like I care about my hit ratio. I'll happilly do recce by fire, Or put rounds into suspect looking bushes, or sprinkle a few shots towards an enemy who vanished after I aimed on to him. I've gotten unseen kills at 804m by blind firing.

I must have done something right as the ELC driver was screaming at the rest of his team "Fuck that Crusader over!", as I raked a couple of belts of 57mm across his capping team mates from a hull down bush. It took them a surprisingly long time to punch my ticket, I can only assume I was camo'd.

To be honest either situation is bad.Either trust in luck or aim and not hit him enough, and it comes down to player style, and which one we feel more comftable doing.

A huge Dispersion for moving the turret I can understand due to to the shoulder shoved gun, However with the 6Pdr as it was a mechanical mount then its harder to justify

DanB24 #60 Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:10 PM

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View PostListy, on 11 December 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Like I care about my hit ratio. I'll happilly do recce by fire, Or put rounds into suspect looking bushes, or sprinkle a few shots towards an enemy who vanished after I aimed on to him. I've gotten unseen kills at 804m by blind firing.

I must have done something right as the ELC driver was screaming at the rest of his team "Fuck that Crusader over!", as I raked a couple of belts of 57mm across his capping team mates from a hull down bush. It took them a surprisingly long time to punch my ticket, I can only assume I was camo'd.

To be honest either situation is bad.Either trust in luck or aim and not hit him enough, and it comes down to player style, and which one we feel more comftable doing.

A huge Dispersion for moving the turret I can understand due to to the shoulder shoved gun, However with the 6Pdr as it was a mechanical mount then its harder to justify

After finding this on a quick Google and going by the snippets mentioning Crusader III,
http://freespace.vir...ation/index.htm
It appears the Crusader III had a "free" mount not a geared one for the 6 pdr. So it would indeed have been on the shoulder.





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