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Chinese tanks development history(read this before you start arguing)

Chinese history development

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TheDarkUnicorn #1 Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

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Part 1
Republic of China

These are excerpts from an article that appeared in Military Modeling Manual in 1983 by Steven Zaloga.
The Chinese had over 1,000 Russian advisers by 1925. Most were experienced from the Russian Civil War and they worked primarily on armored trains. Trains were intended to be used offensively. They generally had 2 turreted guns, could carry troops and supplies, and were built so that they could go in either direction.
The first tanks to come to China were 36 FT-17s purchased from France and the first 10 arrived in 1924 as "agricultural tractors."
In 1927 General Chiang Kai-shek began to distrust his Russian advisers and began to purge the communists in his military and severed the ties with Russia. After this German advisors came.
In 1929 24 Vickers Carden Loyd MG carriers were ordered. These fought on the Lunghai front.
In April 1932 Marshal Liu Hsiang began building the Armored Car and Tank Corps in Chungking. The armored cars were built in Shanghai and were based on GMC M31 trucks with a 37 mm gun and 2 MGs in a turret.
In 1935 10 PzKpfw Is and SdKfz 221 and SdKfz 222 armored cars were purchased. Also 20 Italian CV 33 were purchased around the same time. From Britain 16 Vickers 6-Tons and 29 Vickers Carden Loyds, and in 1936 4 more were purchased and these were equipped with radios.
In 1937 full scale war with Japan broke out. The 1st and 2nd Armored Battalions fount in and around Shanghai. Many of these were captured by the Japanese. By 1938 approximately 48 tanks remained out of a force of 96.
With the war the influence of the German advisors waned as they were withdrawn due to pressure from Japan. The Russians became advisors again and in 1938 sold 87 T-26 Model 1933 that went to form the 200th Mechanized Division. A few BA-6 armored cars were sold too.
After signing the nonaggression pact with Germany and defeating the Kwangtung Army at Khalkin Gol, Russia started to withdraw it's help from China
In January 1941 the United States permitted China to join the Lend Lease program. In October 1941 36 M3A1 scout cars were delivered.
In 1943 a Provisional Tank Group was being reequiped in India with M4A4 Shermans, M3A3 Stuart, half-tracks, and Bren Carriers. It went into battle in 1944 in Burma.
(from http://www.wwiivehic...ina/default.asp)


Part 2
After WWII
After WWII about 300 Japanese Type 97 and several Type 95, dozens M4A4 Sherman and M3A3 Stuart were taken over by KMT army. But most of them were destroyed during the civil war between CPC and KMT.

Part 3
People's Republic of China
In 1956 the Chinese government received both data and samples of T-54A from USSR and unitl Dec.1958 the first chinese T-54A was built with USSR components then 1959 first independently manufactured tank came out,the so called Type 59.

Type 59's derivative versions:
- Type 59-I: Improved variant fitted with a Type 69-II 100 mm rifled gun, as well as a laser rangefinder, hydraulic servo-system, primitive fire control, automatic fire suppression system, and rubber track skirt. The Type 59-I includes several versions with different armour and fire control configurations.
- Type 59-II: Manufacturer designation WZ-120B. Mounts the 105 mm Type 81 rifled gun design provided by Austria, distinguished by the fume extractor midway on the barrel, rather than on the muzzle. Other improvements include new radio and fire suppression system. Produced from 1982 to 1985.
- Type 59-IIA: Fitted with thermal sleeve for 105 mm gun and some composite armor. Variants include MBT, command tank, and made of plastic armour include: B59G and BW120K. The BW120K is fitted with an indigenously developed 120 mm smoothbore gun comparable in general performance to the Rheinmetall 120 mm gun used on the German Leopard 2, American M1A1/A2 Abrams, and other current western main battle tanks.
- Type 59D: Also known as WZ-120C. The Type 59D was developed in the 1990s. Instead of replacing all ageing Type 59s in service with newer models, the PLA decided that they should be upgraded with new technologies to meet the requirements for future land battle. The Type 59D is fitted with explosive reactive armour, a new tank gun, passive night vision, and new fire control. The 12150L diesel engine was also replaced by a 580 hp 12150L7 engine. Variants include Type 59D and Type 59D1. Sudan's Military Industry Corporation (MIC) may have licensed the T-59D for domestic production as the Al-Zubair 2 tank.
- Type 59P: Advanced variant built for the export market, with many high-tech components found in modern third-generation tanks.
- Type 59G: A heavily modernized 3rd-generation variant with a new welded turret similar to the Type 96G replacing the original cast turret and a 125mm main gun with semi-automatic loader. Most advanced version of T 59 tank to date. In service with PLA and recently ordered by Bangladesh Army. Around 300 T59G will be procured and upgraded by the Bangladesh Army. The Type 59G is also in service in Tanzania.

(from http://www.armyrecog...n_pictures.html)


In 1958 the Type 59 was redesigned into a light tank Type 62(132B). Type 62 is the first independtly designed tank and it only keeps the basic components to reduce the weight.
It has also several derivative versions:Type 62-1 ,Type 62 G , Type 70

After PRC government denied USSR's project about setting up a long wave radar station in China and the project about combine fleet in 1958, the relationship between two countries broke down.In 1960 USSR withdrew all of supports and projects.

In 1965 the project WZ-121 was set up but the development progress is extremely slow.

In 1969 armed conflict broke out in the boundary,珍宝岛(Даманский) between PRC and USSR. During the conflict, Type 59 showed it was incapable to face the T-62. But one of T-62 was destroyed by chinese AT-guns, then the conflict became a competition to capture that T-62 and it lasted one more month. In the end that T-62 was sunk into a river, but after the conflict Chinese refloated that T-62.
According to that T-62 chinese engineers redesigned several projects for WZ121. Finally in 1974 the first independently developed tank was named as Type 69.
Type-69 has 3 derivative versions:Type 69-1, Type 69-2, Type 69-3(Type 79).


About WZ-111
The project was set up after the armed conflict 1960. As the project's requirement it should be superior to IS-2 ,even T-10M(IS-8).
in 1965 the prototype was built,

Weight:
  4,6000 KG (46T)
Dimensions:
  Length, 6.04 m (hull); Width, 3.3 m; Height, 2.497 m
Engine:
  derivative version from B-54:750HP
Armament:
122mm L55 rifle cannon

But the project was closed due to new porject of BMT
        
        

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TheDarkUnicorn #2 Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:36 PM

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after the old story,let's see something modern
        

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Csocso #3 Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

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View PostTheDarkUnicorn, on 09 November 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Weight:
  4,6000 KG

HOLY COW That's what I call a light tank...

TheDarkUnicorn #4 Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

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View PostCsocso, on 10 November 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

HOLY COW That's what I call a light tank...


the tier 8 premium heavy tank WZ-111(only in Chinese server atm) is 49t, so never play bumper car with these  vehicles

otakuweasel #5 Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:30 PM

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Finally - a constructive thread about China.

InCole #6 Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:22 AM

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Great thread! Found it very interesting to read :)

Anyway, I can't wait for the Chinese tank tree, I love my Type 59 and simply cannot wait to have more medium, heavy and light Chinese tanks! I have no doubt the China tech tree will become my personal favourite :P

_Trommelfeuer_ #7 Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:31 PM

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Some more interesting details:

Quote

A Number of Renault FT-17s were acquired by the warlord Chang Tso-Lin in the 1920s and served in his private Manchurian Armay against other warlords. After his assassination by the Japanese, his son permitted the incorsporation of the tanks into Chang Kai-shek’s National Revolutionary Army. Here they are seen in operation around 1929 in northern China.
Posted Image
France had dispatched a small of Renault FT's to Vladivostok in 1919, and these were later passed an to the Manchurian Army under Chang Tso-Ling.
The continuing border wars between Bolshevik, White Russian, Chinese and bandit forces led the Soviets to deploy most most of their small inventory of refurbished FTs on the Manchurian border in the mid-1920s.
The Manchurian Army purchased 14 more Renaults in 1924-25, and these were used in the fighting with the warlord Wu Pei-fu in 1926. In 1929, the Renaults were nominally attached to the 1st Cavalry Brigade of the Chinese National Revolutionary Army (NRA).
During the fighting with the Soviets over the Chinese Eastern Railway in the autumn of 1929 the Soviets brought up a company of MS-1 (T-18) light tanks to counter the Renaults, but a tank-vs-tank confrontation never materialised.

By 1930 the NRA had acquired in various ways about 36 Renault FT-17 tanks and some 24 Carden Loyd machine gun carriers, apart from its armoured train fleet.
Posted Image
(more photos of the Carden Loyd in chinese service here: http://www.network54...Amphibious Tank )

The Japanese Army seized nearly all of Chinese/Manchurian Renaults in 1931 when they occupied Manchurian, adding to a small inventory of Renault FTs and NC 27s they had purchased 1922 (? NC 27).

In Japanese service, they were known as the Type 79 Ko-Gata. The Renault FTs and NC 27s were used to form two tank companies in 1925 (? NC 27). in 1931, a section of Renaults was sent to Manchuria to operate alongside the Armored Car Platoon of the Kwangtung Army.

In the 1920s, two sections of Renaults were stationed in French Indochina, one in Saigon and the other in the citadel at Hanoi. During the China crises of 1927 the Saigon company was sent to Shanghai to protect the French concessions. It was joined latter in the year by the US Marine Corps Light Tank Platoon, equipped with the Six-Ton Tank. The Marine tanks were used to guard the rail line between Shanghai and Tientsin; and in 1928 two more French FT tank sections arrived to serve in Tientsin. Japan dispatched some of its Renault FTs and NCs to Shanghai in the same role. The Americans departed in 1929, but the French and japanese remained. The Japanese NC 27s, called Type 89 Etsu B, were used during the Shanghai incident of 1931. The Japanese seized the three sections of the French China Light Tank Company in the late 1930s; they were later turned over to the puppet Manchoukuoan Army which used them into the 1940s. The section in Hanoi remained there until 1945, and fought against the Japanese in that year when they occupied the citadel. ~ researched by Mario Doherr

Zaloga, Steven J., Armour of the Pacific War, Vanguard 35, London, 1983, Osprey Publishing Ltd.
Zaloga, Steven J., The Renault FT Light Tank, Vanguard 46, London, 1989, Osprey Publishing Ltd.

More info here: http://mailer.fsu.ed...hina/china.html

Also interesting:

Quote

Battle of Wuhan and the first action of the 200th division

Wuhan strategically located in the middle of Yangtze River and served as the major railway hub for the only cross-country rail line of that time. This important city was the place for the next Sino-Japanese battle.  In early May, the Japanese Southern Army Group from the battle of Tai Er Zhuang reequipped with more then 200 tanks move in land supported by a naval squadron, while the 14th division, the new vanguard of the IJA Northern Army Group with 20,000 men and hundreds of tanks moved down south.  The 14th division was stop cold by the KMT 1st war zone’s 74th, 71st, 64th, and 8th army.  

Chiang Kai Shek’s ordered two of his best formation to reinforce the 1st warzone and hoped to stop an encirclement of Wuhan.  Those two formations were the 28 army and the 200th mechanized divisions with two fully strength battalions to act as fire brigade.  This was the first major armor operation undertaken by the KMT during the war.  Both formations’ commanders were educated in military academies in Germany before the outbreak of the war.  By the time the 200th division reach 1st war zone, the IJA 14th division already surrounded on three sides by the 71 army in Lanfong city.

The IJA 14th division’s commander was killed during the escape.   It was a major disappointment for General Qiu Qing Quan, the commander of the 200th.  For the next few days, General Qiu Qing Quan personally conducted search and destroy mission around LanFong with a force of eight armor vehicles including his Russian T-26 tank, When he ran into a Japanese cavalry recon company about 100 men, Qiu swiftly charge toward Japanese, and managed to kill the most of the surprised Japanese in a matter of minutes.  He then proceeds to give chase to the surviving cavalry to a distance of seven kilometers over a flat terrain, only to be stopped by a battery of IJA anti-tank guns.  This event was made into a great propaganda victory for the Chinese armor troops, as a way to boost morale of the troops.

Using this ‘victory’ as a reason, the KMT HQ ordered the 200th to lead a general offensive against the IJA Northern Army Group.  Unfortunately, the IJA was ready the strike again at the same time.   In the night of 23rd, under the cover of darkness, an IJA tank regiment supported by heavy artillery and a brigade of infantry took Lanfong by surprise and the Chinese offensive force was in danger of being cut off.  Chiang Kai Shek ordered the 28 army to recapture the city in 2 days.  A longer delay would sour the offensive and force the 200th to withdraw.

It took the 28 army three days, over 5000 casualties, including all three brigades’ commander who led the charge to push the IJA out.  So ended the first armor offensive action of the KMT.

More info here: http://mailer.fsu.ed...ore_1945_ed.htm

Chinese Panzerkampfwagen I captured by japanese forces near Nanking, 1937
Posted Image
source: http://bountyjumper....zkw-i-ausf.html

Chinese nationalist army T-26 tanks of the 200th Division, 1938
Posted Image
source: http://www.ww2incolo...untitledsd.html

Chinese M3 Stuart light tanks
Posted Image
source: http://historyimages...rare-large.html

Edited by Trommelfeuer, 11 November 2012 - 10:50 PM.


Dammonar #8 Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:09 AM

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Gota love chinese ingenuity, never gets old.

Skalski #9 Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

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Ya know what's funny though?

Will the early-tiered Chinese tanks have crews in uniforms of Chiang's or Mao's armies?

What about KMT camouflage patterns?





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