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A rare find: Hungarian rocket tanks


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Szabolcs85 #1 Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:15 AM

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Look what I just found...

http://www.operatorc...35190564927.jpg

http://www.operatorc...35190568291.jpg

http://www.operatorc...35190603428.jpg

http://www.operatorc...35190605573.jpg

http://www.operatorc...35190611592.jpg

Apparently these things actually existed.

vito_von_bang #2 Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:18 AM

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Spoiler                     


Tigger3 #3 Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:51 PM

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They look like the Hungarian AT rocket system - 44M Buzogányvet's rocket

Posted Image
Firing

Posted ImagePosted Image

Lidérc Air to Air Rocket on left, 44M Buzogányvet's AT rocket on right
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Botan #4 Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:55 PM

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Is something new to me

It will be nice premium. :Smile_great:

StickyFinger #5 Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:37 PM

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And the Russian way....humans...who needs them LOL....and.he smiles ??

Posted Image

ChielScape #6 Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

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View PostSzabolcs85, on 11 November 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

Got that from the hipster armor thread?

Highway_Star #7 Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:49 PM

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View PostStickyFinger, on 11 November 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

And the Russian way....humans...who needs them LOL....and.he smiles ??

Posted Image

That's a good photoshop job. I may have to steal it.

Szabolcs85 #8 Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:34 PM

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View PostChielScape, on 13 November 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Got that from the hipster armor thread?

I actually started that thread back then, mainly to tell other tank enthusiasts about my country's tanks and to learn about theirs. There had been enough discussions about well-known tanks like Panthers or Shermans, lesser-known tank types need to be talked about too.

Szabolcs85 #9 Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:43 PM

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View PostTigger3, on 11 November 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

They look like the Hungarian AT rocket system - 44M Buzogányvet's rocket

They are, or at least the ones on the Toldi. The Mace-launcher was a heavy, shaped-charge AT missile with enough payload to damage or knock out basically everything the Soviets had at the time. Unfortunately only a few dozen were made, they were used mostly around the siege of Budapest. There was an anti-infantry variant too called "Zápor" (flurry/heavy rain) with canister warheads. The ones on the Zrínyi are standard Nebelwerfer-pods. The Zrínyi might be the same Zrínyi I prototype that is known as the only one that existed.

Neither versions were known to have been deployed in combat. Although I'm curious how they would have worked out. The Toldi was a fast and agile light tank and Buzogányvetős packed a serious punch; it makes sense to combine the two. Although such a combination is far more difficult in practice than in theory and by the end of the war the Hungarian military had little time or resources to refine a concept into a well-tested weapon.

HadurHun #10 Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:07 PM

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from what i know no rockets are planned for WOT

but rockets do exist in WOWp

Szabolcs85 #11 Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:17 PM

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View PostHadurHun, on 13 November 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

from what i know no rockets are planned for WOT

One can dream, no?

Botan #12 Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

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View PostHadurHun, on 13 November 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

from what i know no rockets are planned for WOT

but rockets do exist in WOWp

So what about  RBT-5 or hotchiss with rocket?  :Smile_Default:

Listy #13 Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

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View PostBotan, on 14 November 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

So what about  RBT-5 or hotchiss with rocket?  :Smile_Default:

Hell I want a Tulip! Or even beter a Tulip Firefly (or is it a Firefly Tulip?)!

Tigger3 #14 Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:06 PM

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View PostListy, on 14 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Hell I want a Tulip! Or even beter a Tulip Firefly (or is it a Firefly Tulip?)!

I have only seen Sherman Tulips with two rockets, now a Cromwell tulip which had four was much scarier.

StickyFinger #15 Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:10 PM

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Sherlip ?   Tulifly ?

Pfeifenkopf (also called Pinsel)
Conceived as an anti-tank guided missile using a visual homing system based on the principle of television. The missile was to carry a super-iconoscope in it’s head using a spiral scanning method, which compared the missile’s own target image with that from it’s aiming device. The crude imaging system using as it's basis the target’s contrast with it’s background.
Unfortunately, due to the crude technology in use, this method demanded that a very sharp contrast had to exist between the target and the background, something that could never be guaranteed on the battlefield.
Tests carried out in late 1944, however, proved the system fairly successful, and it was proposed that development of Pfeifenkopf should also include a capacity for air-launching as an air-to-ground missile for tank hunting.
Pfeifenkopf weighed about 25 kg, and had a projected range of a little over 1,000 metres.
The Pfeifenkopf project also led to another anti-tank missile proposal, Steinbocke, which was very similar in design, but used an infra-red homing device instead of the visual homing of Pfeifenkopf.



The X-7 Rotkäppchen (Red Riding Hood) was a anti-tank missile. Designed and developed by Ruhrstahl AG in 1943, After the Heereswaffenamt (Army Ordnance Board) placed an urgent order for anti-tank missiles, this project was under the leadership of Dipl.-Ing. Max Otto Kramer.
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The X-7 Rotkäppchen (Red Riding Hood) This weapon was intended to be deployed against tanks and armoured vehicles. Dipl.-Ing. Max Otto Kramer had been experimenting since early 1938, with remote control freefalling bombs, and in 1940. Kramer joined Ruhrstahl AG.

The X-7 Rotkäppchen (Red Riding Hood) was shell shaped body had two wins at its aft end with parabolic leading and trailing edges and two small pods for the wire link spools were attached to the wing tips, spoiler control was simplified on the X-7 Rotkäppchen by the installation of only one spoiler on an extended curved arm. The rocket motor used was 1 × WASAG 109-506 solid fuel rocket engine producing up to kg of thrust. The wire link control system was employed for the X-7 Rotkäppchen which used Düsseldorf FuG 510 transmitter and the Detmold FuG 238 receiver, also a radio controlled system was planned for the X-7 Rotkäppchen using the FuG 203/230h. detonation was achieved by use of an impact fuse.

A few hundred X-7 Rotkäppchen were produced at
Ruhrstahl AG Brackwede factory however there were unconfirmed reports of the X-7 being used operationally on the eastern front, and it appears that this missile was extremely effective. Even against the heavy armoured, Stalin tanks.

care of.....http://www.wehrmacht-history.com/index.htm

Edited by StickyFinger, 14 November 2012 - 06:16 PM.


Gaulwa #16 Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

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Interesting. Do they mention the exact explosive charge?
I suppose this could have done great damage if it fell on top of the tank. There is hardly a tank with more than 20mm of armor on the top.

StickyFinger #17 Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:21 PM

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I read that it was 2.5-3kg presented as a shaped charge with a stand off denonator in the cone.

With the shaped charge of that size and the following weight of the rocket motor it would NOT have to fall on the top....any hit would be a critical hit even on a tank made by the myitical WoT Red Pixels makers :)

The first prototype was followed by a larger production model with a changed detonator for the shaped charge of 2.5 kg. The back part of the main body (length 46.5 cm; diameter 15 cm)contained the two-stage solid fuel rocket engine 109-506 developed and made by the company WASAG. The wings were swept forward and had wingtips which housed the guidance wires, wingspan was 60cm. The small elevator/steering rudder assembly was set off 13.2 cm of the main body's axis. Total length including the protruding detonator cap (diameter: 3.8 cm) was 95cm. The fully loaded Rotkäppchen weighed 9kg.
The missile was to be launched from a start rail tripod that was 150cm long and weighed 15kg. the missile's rocket engine was ignited with a 300V battery. This fired the 2g gunpowder positioned in the two hollow half rounds of the gyro stabilizer. the explosion gases exited through two tangential openings and immediately brought the gyro to operating speed. Then the 3kg of propellant of the first stage of the rocket engine were ignited. They developed 68kp thrust and accelerated the missile to it's flight speed of 98m/s in 2.5 sec.

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Watch it bounce off a T50 and an IS8 every time but kill every Brit tank it hits:)

Edited by StickyFinger, 15 November 2012 - 01:43 PM.


KOred #18 Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

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Very interesting thread.

That first 1 just looks wicked.

http://www.operatorc...35190564927.jpg

StickyFinger #19 Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:06 PM

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Remember the Hungarian rockets were just Werfer-Granate 21 air 2 air rockets ( http://www.ww2aircra...erstorer.jpg )with a large shaped charge fitted and  fired from a tube/launcer.
Because of the good design of the venturi they had some degree of "acceleration/time/range" predictibility and thus could be a good AT system. (all be it short range).

The Rotkäppchen was Wire Guided.  Much was made during the cold war with the guidance systems and concepts by all nations.

Edited by StickyFinger, 15 November 2012 - 06:08 PM.


ChielScape #20 Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

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View PostSzabolcs85, on 13 November 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

I actually started that thread back then, mainly to tell other tank enthusiasts about my country's tanks and to learn about theirs. There had been enough discussions about well-known tanks like Panthers or Shermans, lesser-known tank types need to be talked about too.
Brofist to a fellow OPERATOR.