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AMX 12t is an abysmal tank

amx 12t useless underpowered terrible awful unplayable

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Boomstick1 #1 Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:50 AM

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And it needs to be deleted from the game. Yeah the early French tanks like the D1 and B1 suck utter dick, but at least they won't take long to grind through or can easily be free xp-ed past. The 12t is a tier six tank that has the performance of a tier four tank or worse.

Ok, so the bad points about the tank. It's acceleration and agility are truly awful for a light tank, just terrible. It's decently fast in a straight line if you have a downhill slope or time to build up speed, but stop to fire or take cover and you're boned. It's barely faster than an IS-7 or IS-8 going uphill. It's too slow and sluggish at turning to really flank anything, I even had trouble staying behind the gun of a KV-4 at close range. Awful.

The gun depression is terrible, it has no way to take advantage of the new physics as it can't shoot at stuff below it except by wobbling right on the edge of a cliff and being an easy target for anyone.

It has no armour or hit-points to speak of, and combined with the terrible agility it has no defence except being too pathetic to occasion bothering to shoot at it. The gun accuracy and penetration are truly awful, you have to sit still for ages to actually aim and hit anything and you will get a lot of bounces the hits you do get. You can't fire on the move and hit anything.

The damage output of the gun and clip are mediocre at best, you get six shots for around 100 damage each. Assuming a couple of misses or bounces, and you're very little threat to anyone.

But the absolute worst thing about this tank is the tiering it gets. It's sort of ok in same-tier matches, you can get a nice position and put 3-400 damage into the side of a clueless VK3601H or something and be somewhat useful to the team. But most of it's matches, like at least three quarters or more, it gets put into these ridiculous tier nine or ten battles.

Now you have to understand, it's a completely terrible scout in every respect. It is not a Chaffee or a T-50-2, it has absolutely no place in maximum tier matches. Your view range is bad, all of the mediums you are facing are faster than you. If you go up front to try and be a good little scout, you will get crushed as any tank in the match can one or two-shot you, or just squish you under their tracks like the little bug you are, and you have very little ability to gtfo. If you hang back and try and snipe, well good luck with that, bounce after bounce and then an arty shell on your head. The best you can hope for is being able to put a few shots into the rear or side of a distracted heavy, maybe get through to the enemy arty, but every tank in the match is better placed to do those things than you.

It's just pure crap that WG put in such a shit tank after the fun of the AMX ELC. Sure it has some problems, but it's a zippy, fast little tank with a cool gun and a fun, idiosyncratic playstyle. It's particularly good in a platoon, as 600 instant maneuverable and flankable damage is very handy. Then you get to the 12t and it's utter dogshit, and apparently the 13 75 isn't much better, which I can imagine, seeing as it keeps the same weak gun and low mobility.

I wanted to play this tree to get the 13 90 or Batchat, as they look like fun in replays that i've seen, but this tank just makes me want to quit the game entirely. It's time that WG fixed this game, and improved the tank trees enough so that these useless tanks are playable, or they are not included. I don't mean every tank has to be brilliant, but they at least need to have some role and be playable in the battles they get put into. The AMX 12t has no role and is for all intents and purposes unplayable, and I hate it to death. I'm sick of grinding through useless horrible tanks just to get to the decent and good ones.

Da_chief_360 #2 Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

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The problem here is not the tank, it's you.

The AMX 12t is, and most likely always will be a flanker. You have to get in behind preoccupied hostiles and unload the 6 rounds into their rear. It's a very situational vehicle and I found it's success to be dependent on the team as a whole.

rayd3r #3 Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:03 AM

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You have to be patient and smart with amx 12t. Look for oportunities. Optics,vents and GLD will help you a lot. Also crew trained in camo and off road driving.

Boomstick1 #4 Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:04 AM

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View PostDa_chief_360, on 15 November 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

The problem here is not the tank, it's you.

The AMX 12t is, and most likely always will be a flanker. You have to get in behind preoccupied hostiles and unload the 6 rounds into their rear. It's a very situational vehicle and I found it's success to be dependent on the team as a whole.

Lol yeah ok. Try flanking on the maps in this game with your slow and underpowered donkey of a tank. Then watch as your tank gets vaporised by most anybody in the vicinity with you unable to dodge or do anything. Sure you can put some rounds into the back of a stupid preoccupied hostile, but your few hundred damage (if you're lucky with penetration and deviation rolls) isn't worrying anybody. Then you have an empty drum and nowhere to go. It's just outclassed by every tank it comes up against, and has no defences or reason for being there.

Edited by Boomstick1, 15 November 2012 - 01:15 AM.


KOred #5 Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

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Sorry but I have to agree with the original poster. It is dog shit.

AMX 12t gets bad tiering..has terrible gun depression + worse gun than the previous ELC.

Rubbish armour.

The best it can try is point blank suicide flanking. And it spends half the match hiding...either while reloading or waiting for an opening.

Thats if it doesn't die in the first 3 minutes.

A T50-2 has a higher combat value in my opinion and thats a scout.

Edited by KOred, 15 November 2012 - 01:42 AM.


Kameho #6 Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:52 AM

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View PostDa_chief_360, on 15 November 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

The problem here is not the tank, it's you.

The AMX 12t is, and most likely always will be a flanker. You have to get in behind preoccupied hostiles and unload the 6 rounds into their rear. It's a very situational vehicle and I found it's success to be dependent on the team as a whole.

Yes..... Indeed. this is what you need to do with this tank. But as you just mentioned: its a SITUATIONAL tank. and beeing a situational tank is NOT a good thing and infact just prooves that this tank is rubbish.

So sadly, the problem here is not the OP. its the tank, and your refusal that it IS a bad tank.

What defines a bad tank or good think? Not because of personal feelings, but cold hard facts of what a tank is capable and not capable off, and this has more disadvantages than advantages. If it has more disadvantages, then its a bad tank. if it has more advantages, its a good tank, if its around equal, its neither good or bad.

And this game how well a tank performs in Team play does not apply into the matter of fact if the tank is good or bad. As this game is heavily against Teamplay as a AMX12t. Why? You cannot join a teamplay based Tank Company, or use it in clan battles.

why? Its classified as light tank, and its a tier 6 light tank, wich mean, you aint gonna be in any other battles than tier 8-10, where this tank is heavily underperforming. Where getting behind the enemie and shooting them in the back will hardly be any effective against any other tank than french or certain other cheese tank.

So no.

This tank is not a good tank.

purplehayes #7 Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:20 AM

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my friend, the amx12t was a piece of crap when it was a tier 5, and the only reason the amx elc is any fun at all is because they went and gave it that hugely op gun for tier 5, the same one which the amx 1390 gets. now I used to enjoy the amx 1375 when that was tier 6, that was great, and it felt balanced, but now they've all moved up I know it isn't as fun as it was, i know the amx90 wont be as fun as it was when I bought it (but it used to be op for tier IMO), and I know sure as hell the amx12t won't be fun if I go back to it. In fact the ONLY reason you can have any fun with the ELC AMX is because it has that gun FROM A TIER 8 at tier 5. I think they should have kept the 12t and 1375 where they were, never even bothered creating the elc amx, and stuck a new tank in between the 1375 and the 90 because atm the 90 is a huge leap in firepower from the 75 and more often than not an elc is even better off than a 1375 because not only is the gun a lot higher damage and pen, but the 1375 is the size of a normal tank and gets hit like a normal tank, while the ELC AMX is the size of a shoebox so nobody can kill it except by ramming.

These people above have said 12t is bad cos it has a worse gun than ELC, well the 1375 is good and has a worse gun than the elc. The problem here is not the 12t gun or the 1375 gun its the ELC gun being way more powerful than it should be and the 12t having no gun depression. IMO it's the ELC that should be deleted or at least have its gun nerfed into line with the 12t and 1375.

EDIT: Yeah the gun's not exactly the same as the 1390's, it just has the same accuracy, pen, damage and 0.1 less aiming time and slightly lower fire rate, effectively the same gun for all purposes.

Edited by purplehayes, 15 November 2012 - 03:29 AM.


Thlurp #8 Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:54 AM

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i have to admit it's by far the worst T6 i played so far

not usable as a scout, despite the fact any random player yells "go scout amx" at you

blows up with 2 shots of any tier 7 or above gun and being so it feels worse than driving in a medium tank

most battles you land in t8, t9 and even t10 and one out of ten you get a t7 battles where you can actually deal damage and have fun, but that is just not how it should be

the AMX ELC being put on a scout matchmaking makes sense and i had a lot of fun playing it even in t8 or t9 battles because the gun is very good for its tier

but having scout mm on amx12t is just pointless, you're too slow and sluggish to properly scout


the only thing i have to admit is that if it was top tier it would be very OP, so i would suggest putting it into a matchmaking where it only lands in t7/8 battles


thank you for posting this, once again OP +1

Instigator #9 Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

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I thoroughly enjoyed the 12t when I had it as tier 5 despite me being pretty useless generally at the game back then (and only really starting to improve now). Yes you could be easy one shot, even by an M4 derp if you were lucky enough to be in a same tier battle (rare). However,if there were other like minded 12ts in the same battle as you or you got into a clued up team you would be raping tier 6s and 7s easy. The one thing it isn't though is a scout, except maybe passive, so the matchmaking since it went to tier 6 killed it. Maybe it is the right tier wrong matchmaker. I dumped the 12t and the 13 75 just after they were upgraded.

The 13 as 13-75 would make sense as the start of tier 7 knowing you would be gaining xp to get the 90mm later that tier but instead you have to pray your way through a further 113k of xp before you go up to 13-90.

Compare these tanks with another nation and the 12t is similar to E8, not Chaffee or T-50 quick but fast enough to get some good positions and do flanking if you work at it, particularly in towns. You get sliced open easy but can shoot fast so it is fun to play.  The 13-75 is like the T20 before it gets the nice 90 but it doesn't get that gain in the same tier. I played the E8 and had fun and it was an easy money maker. I am enjoying the T20 now. I want to go back to the French line as I think playing them was when I finally started to learn about movement in the game but unless the matchmaker is addressed or the 90mm given to the 13 in tier 7 I cannot imagine I will bother.

Having said all that I watch with envy some great players who stuck to the 13-75 and play brilliant in the same matches I am in with my T20. Of course the next fight I will be near the top tier not bottom and they will have a tier 10 above them not just the 8s and 9s we played alongside so the jealousy doesn't last.

Edited by Instigator, 15 November 2012 - 11:11 AM.


Thlurp #10 Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:23 AM

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i myself decided to go up the french heavy (as long as light/med is not fixed), of course you end up with less mobility than light/med, but a much better mobility than other nations heavies and similar to mediums, and i got an autoloader there as well ;)

oh and not to forget, nobody shouts 'go scout amx!' ;)

purplehayes #11 Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:29 AM

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View PostInstigator, on 15 November 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

unless the matchmaker is addressed or the 90mm given to the 13 in tier 7 I cannot imagine I will bother.


This was exactly the situation when the amx 13 90 was tier 7 and that was extremely op. It was such bullshit in fact that amx 90 drivers could simply come up to ANY other tier 7 - light, medium, heavy, td, any tier 7, even some tier 8s, and not even bother trying to dodge their victims shots just take the damage from one or 2 (if they're lucky) shells while they would kill that tank outright. That's light tanks able to outright kill heavy tanks/medium tanks/whatever, of a tier above, without even worrying about damage unless one of his mates arrives to try and save him. the 90mm gun does not belong at tier 7, let alone tier 5.

fifi51 #12 Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:59 AM

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Amx12t is a good tank.
You can damage without problem nearly all tier 8 tanks easely (exception kv-5) and somes tier IX and X.
So just wait, find a breach in enemy def, flank a tank and shot between 2 or 4 shells, then flee and reload.
repeat.
Ok you will probably die after time, but you willl help for victory.

PRO_MEMBER #13 Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:00 PM

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I agree with OP, its rubbish even if it would get into its own MM. With crappy MM its even bigger pile of donkey manure.

Instigator #14 Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

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View Postpurplehayes, on 15 November 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

This was exactly the situation when the amx 13 90 was tier 7 and that was extremely op. It was such bullshit in fact that amx 90 drivers could simply come up to ANY other tier 7 - light, medium, heavy, td, any tier 7, even some tier 8s, and not even bother trying to dodge their victims shots just take the damage from one or 2 (if they're lucky) shells while they would kill that tank outright. That's light tanks able to outright kill heavy tanks/medium tanks/whatever, of a tier above, without even worrying about damage unless one of his mates arrives to try and save him. the 90mm gun does not belong at tier 7, let alone tier 5.

Definitely does not belong on 5. My suggestion is to leave 13-75 as is but slightly better matchmaking or give it the 90 and keep the match maker the same so you at least do have a chance to penetrate when you get drawn against the tier 9 and 10. The 12t I think is definitely at the correct tier, just the MM has it as pure scout which it isn't. Give it the same matchmaking as the E8 it would be vulnerable piece of fun it used to be. It was way too good for 5 but then it wasn't the only thing too good for that tier was it?

Nailcake #15 Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:05 PM

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AMX 12t is fine, it has a few shortcomings, but its not as bad as the OP suggests. Problem is that the ELC is so much fun(when played properly) and the AMX 13 75 is just a slightly beefed up version of the 12t.

The AMX 12t needs to be improved, same for the AMX13 75. Then everything would be fine, imho.
The ELC has several weak spots, papertin armour and frontmounted engine to begin with, enough to counter the power of the 90mm and bring the tank into balance. Speed is one thing, but in high(er) tier battles, there are quite a few marksmen who have no problem stopping an ELC, so just driving straight at the enemy is suicide usually. I personally find that vehicle to be balanced.

roiter475 #16 Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

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I completely disagree .. it's not the tank.. sorry to say it but it is you.
Yes, the worst thing about it is the shit mobility and acceleration.
But it is a very very awesome tank and I am having a lot of fun with it.

First of all, you do NOT suicide scout with it . you can ONLY passive scout (though hard when you have a very angled hill to climb).
The gun is absolutely awesome for it's tier.
It's quite accurate, Usually if I try to snipe I am shooting only on big targets with it's side facing me (unless it has no armor on hull).
You SHOULD NOT waste bullets that tries your luck.
You only have 30 bullets and if you waste ammo for nothing you will have a hard time.

The only reason I love t10-t9 battles are arty.
There are usually between 3 - 5 arties in those battles meaning very big targets for you.
You only need to be patient enough in those battles and passive spot and only go to enemy arty when there is not threat for you and you MUST alert your arty at least 20 secs before you go for it so they will be ready.

My best game with it was a t6-t7 game which ended up with 24 penetrations out of 24 shots (100%) and 3100 damage done.

My stats with it are :
101 battles
55% wins
14% survival rate (could be at least 20% but I tend to suicide rush last enemies hehe or just being very unlucky and getting shot by a noob that sees me as an easy target)
destroyed : 84 (I understood that I can do a lot of damage only after like 40 battles and than started killing)
78% hit ratio
average exp : 475
max exp : 1427

To conclude. I find it very decent for it's tier and a fun little vehicle that CAN circle enemies when very very close to them.
Gun depression is indeed awful meaning you need to master it even better in order to be an effective killer
Though.. it needs a buff in acceleration because it's shit :/

purplehayes #17 Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:40 AM

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View PostInstigator, on 15 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Definitely does not belong on 5. My suggestion is to leave 13-75 as is but slightly better matchmaking or give it the 90 and keep the match maker the same so you at least do have a chance to penetrate when you get drawn against the tier 9 and 10. The 12t I think is definitely at the correct tier, just the MM has it as pure scout which it isn't. Give it the same matchmaking as the E8 it would be vulnerable piece of fun it used to be. It was way too good for 5 but then it wasn't the only thing too good for that tier was it?

when I say about it being on tier 5 I'm not talking about the amx12t being tier 5 like it used to, I'm talking about the 90mm being available to ELC AMX which it is now, and which I do not think it should. If the AMX12t doesn't belong at tier 5 with the 75mm gun, then neither does the 90mm gun belong on the ELC AMX at tier 5. And giving the 90mm to the 1375 would be right back to the old OP situation of when the 1390 was tier 7 so I disagree with that because as I mentioned in my earlier post, this would mean that its a light tank able to kill any heavy of same tier and even the tier above without even breaking a sweat.

lelldar #18 Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:23 AM

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12t is a good tank IMO (60 % WR in 186 battles).
The gun is accurate, pen is decent and damage is ok, too. Only the horrible aiming time and very bad depression can get annoying.

You have to play it carefully though, it can't take any hits. In the beginning of the game you can scout a little or snipe (yes, it can do that, just the long aiming time can be annoying but it hits often at 500m+) . Just take your time to aim and don't waste all the ammo.

After a while when most rushers have died you can do what the tank excels at - flanking and hunting lone tanks, I've killed full health obj 704 etc solo. Remember it can't do circle of death to even most heavy tanks, though, just TDs and arty. You should not be rushing alone to flank heavies (and really not meds) unless they have very little health left.

Sidus_Preclarum #19 Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

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I like it. Then again, this is my *only* tier VI vehicle, so I am maybe simply content out of the sheer ignorance of my own misery.
Wondering what kind of  XP is needed to bag a mastery badge with it, though.

Grombolduke #20 Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

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I really like it!

It's pure fun if u know u can/should 1st spot/scout, then pull back to safety, and go ninja in the 2nd third of the game!

Not to brag, but I would say I now manage to get 2 kills per battle  and some 1.2k damage. Sure looking at my stats will tell otherwise but that is due to playing it some 5k battles ago,....

Liked it when it was T5, now I love it  as T6!

Camo net, binocs, vents + 100 octane gas! Crew 100% and 80% camo! Spot'em, flank'em, KILL'EM!





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