191 replies to this topic

[fras23]

eok i feel your pain, although i'm moving straight to the 13 75 as it looks pretty similar. I think these are tanks that rely on your team mates a lot, where the elc is a great scout and can really change a game, I find the 12t is at best a reasonable passive scout on certain maps, and more effective in the second half where there's only 5 or 6 tanks left on each side. Which of course relies on your team mates not folding.

I tip my hat to anyone with a good win rate in this tank.

I have to say while i am moaning, when a game goes well I do enjoy it a lot. Maybe it's the idea of succeeding in the face of adversity?

[IronSpear]

Eokokok, on 17 October 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I wish I had enough willpower to master this little fellow... 13 75 already waiting in my garage, but the notion of going forward without getting a good grip on a previous tank is making me sick... Then again if I master 12t (or at least get decent at it) it can get only easier with next tanks in this line.

All I have to say is this.
Whatever you have learned with the AMX 12T will not get lost on the 13 75. You can expect better results since you already know what works and what does not for light autoloader with paper armor.
You already got used to the limited depression and elevation angles and the other aspects of this tank.
You should be getting better results with the 13 75 then with 12t. Not because the tank is inherently better but because you have more experience and they play in similar fashion. However If you are horrible with 12t you will still be horrible with the 13 75 only slightly less so :)
Example:
AMX 12t    309 games 52.43 % win rate for me that is about 1 % above my average
AMX 13 75   138 games 55.8% win rate for me that is about 5 % above average for me
and then just when you think you are getting good at it and feel semi pro
AMX 13 90 48 games 41.67 win rate trololol
Match maker is brutal on that thing 50 % tier x tanks in almost every single game rest tier IX
Hah So you guys know what is waiting for you :D still the french light tree was one of the most rewarding and challenging play moments for me.
The Adrenaline rushes when you flank an Jagdtiger or IS 3 in your little tier 6 buggy and fry him or spot the while side from the bush while your team rips their whole flanks to pieces and you know it is only because of you is well unique.
I strongly recommend it you like the french lights to get the T 71 as well beautiful machine in some aspects even better then 13 75
the M7 and T21 grind however will make you cringe. It is more mobile which is a blessing and a curse since you will get more cocky with it then with the 13 75,
T71 172 games 52.91 win rate
Have fun do not hate the 12t it is very nice little tank.

Edited by IronSpear, 17 October 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[hscorpio]

I think the tech tree is actually worse than it was before they increased everything's tier by one, in that it gives people a false impression.

When you're coming from the AMX 40 and get the ELC, a new player will most likely experience something like this:



So yeah, driving it is fun, but sometimes it's so much 'fun' people forget about stopping and shooting and not getting killed.

And then when you finally have somewhat adapted to the ELC and it's capabilities, you get the AMX 12t, which is slower, turns sluggishly when stock, has a less forgiving gun and pretty challenging MM.
I can see why folks are being disappointed.

In any case, I think the 12t is actually the most fun tank of the line, up to the Batchat.
It's got a very good gun for a scout, good viewrange and mobility and of course excellent camo. What more do you need?
In fact, I think it's the best tier 6 scout at the moment (until they change the Chaffee-line).

[Judqment8]

Kvaak, on 12 October 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Mobility buff might do the trick, limiting its MM would basically turn it into a T6 BatChat. Well, one that struggles against some T8s frontally but on T7 matches it just murders everything.

Well, honestly the tier 6 lights have no place in tier 10 battles. They have crappy view range and guns to be actually "useful" for the team. Sure you can succeed in tier 10 battles, but I'm just saying that with so many tier 7 and 8 light tanks there really is no place for the tier 6 lights in tier 10 battles. Not to mention how most of the tier 10 mediums can scout and deal damage a lot better.

Hell even the camouflage values are mediocre compared to the mediums.

[fras23]

Sorry I know this thread is about the 12t but I can't help have a little moan about the 13 75  

Why is the 13 75 so bad compared to the t71?
t71 has better camo, view range, penetration, dpm that matters (damage per clip), acceleration, top speed, depression/elevation,  track traverse, ammo capacity..

In return the 13 75 has a few more hp, slightly better armour (pointless anyway), slightly better turret traverse (track traverse is way way worse & a lot more important) and dpm (not per clip, but because a clip reloads 4 seconds faster).

When you look at the stats the 13 75 is simply trash in comparison.

BUFF THE 13 75!!!!  

[Judqment8]

WG hates French tanks. They only care about their latest power creeps.

[yarsun]

Ok,
This tank has one problem, rendering it to useless pile of bolts.

MOBILITY.

If you want light, mobile tank at midtier, get the T71 (T7 US light tank).
Just compare T71 to AMX 1375 and you'll see immediately the difference.
I could ignore worse pen etc etc. but not mobility.

If you want play flanker, you need to be fast enough to get in and get out. This tank sucks because it can't do that. If you wanna to go active scouting, you need same. If you wanna drive around HT, unload on him / distract him ... you again need mobility.
This tank bleed speed on turns like hell.

So this tank is FAIL.
Why? Because it fails at role it is supposed to do - scouting. It gets scouting MM and simply fail at it, as it can't perform active scouting quite well and if someone say go flank, yeah, why not, but you know what? There is bunch of mediums that can flank better than you.

If they give it better engine and/or adjusted terrain resistance etc, it would be a blast tank to play, just like eg. the T71.

[Judqment8]

I still think the tank is quite awesome:

[Flamdring]

From my own experience I found AMX 12t to be awful, except for a very few select situations where I could stay alive long enough to unload a few shots in someone's behind. I am experiencing the same problem with AMX 13 75.

Both of them are not scouts at all as they lack speed, manoeuvrability and acceleration, but then they are also quite poor flankers as they are still too slow and weak compared to many mediums of the same tier who can do the flanking job much-much better. I

[Search_Warrant]

Why is it that someone makes a topic about a french light being bad and gets +rep but as soon as i post the exact same feelings towards T69 i get shot down by people who never even played the tank before? you want a bad tank? go play T69! everything you stated its exactly the same for T69! Slow, no armor, guns terrible, cant pen sh*t and every hit breaks my ammo rack. and im like twice the size of a french light.

[Flamdring]

Not sure, man, but I thought T69 was quite a good tank. Never played it, but saw it making quite a lot of kills and/or damage. The same cannot be said about AMX 12t. :/

[Search_Warrant]

I own and played this tank. i played the T71 all the way threw too. T71 was awesome compared to T69 because it had 2 things better than T69, SPEED & SIZE! speed meant everything with that T71! with that speed my low pen did not matter because i had mobility to actually flank the enemy. T69 got its speed crippled and kept that terrible pen. now im left with T71 thats twice the size and less than half the mobility. compleatly useless tank.
.
T69 cannot 1v1 anyone because the moment you need to reload you better kiss ur [edited]good bye.

Edited by Search_Warrant, 21 November 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[Charlie_the_Unicorn]

I just sold it. With much effort, after fully upgrading it, I might be able to get this tank to work only marginally. Yeah, I'm probably doing it wrong.
But to have to endure this ordure for another 60.000+ xp and go through more of the same with the 13-75?

[NiemandXL]

Awful tank! ELC was fun but this thing appears to be a bad joke. Too damn slow to get to the good positions in time and completely useless as active scout for the same reason.

[_Amstel_]

I am actually enjoying this little tank. Depending on the map and team composition I either start the game by getting forward in a passive spotting position or just hang back to intercept enemy scouts. When enemies are engaged and distracted I try to flank them, the gun can do some serious damage in those situations. If there is an opening I try to go after their arty. I always try to stay alive as long as possible, even if it means not getting the initial spots, because at the end of the game when most tanks are crippled you can clip them more easy.

The results are not really there yet, but I am so much enjoying it and slowly getting better in it.

[yarsun]

Aaaaahhhhh .... sold that trash-can finally today! What a relieve :]] What a joy! :]]

 

@Judgement: i can post similar screens here too, got mastery on it np, that doesn't change the fact the tank is crappy bucket of bolts - best left to gather rust in some dusty corner of my garage.

 

Resume:

Can you make the tank perform? Yes.

Is the tank 'fun' to play? No.

 

Killing things for me on this tank:

-agility (if you stop, after you been seen - you're dead stick - getting this thing to move takes time, MT are more agile than this crap)

-bleeds speed on turns (e.g. I detracked IS-7 and yet it was able to track my circling around it with its turret only!! I found this like insulting slap in my face)

-aim time is abysmal (needed re-aim after each shot, unless you're at point blank range, this renders 'peek'n'boom tac almost impossible to apply, you wont hit a thing)

- gun depression and elevation both suck (every single game i've been cursing this over and over and yet again)

-shell count - too small (in some games i was left useless without ammo)

 

Strategy that worked for me best:

played like medium tank - no scouting whatsoever (active scouting not possible and passive barely, occasionally on some maps - due to crappy sight range)

in the end, i even didn't attempt to scout, all 'big' guys had better view range, so i just hanged back, and flanked and helped mopping up after we (err, my team) won

[John_Preston]

So i'm kinda new with scout tanks and so far not so successful...i liked the ELC but i used it as a TD after the initial spotting run. But with the 12t's gun you never gonna penetrate anything from the front(also the lack of gundepression/elevation makes it almost impossible to aim at anything what is not in point blank range)...and the worst possible match is a tier6 one, because those vehicles are quite fast and they reload fast, unlike the big, sluggis, inaccurate tier 8-9 tanks.

Ohh and it feels somehow slow and sluggish after the ELC.

 

My very first proper scout game(it was so epic that i have to post it everywhere): http://wotreplays.com/site/510129#self

 

I still suck with this tank, but it's not a big surprise without camo skill and 6th sense...

I guess i have to train a decent crew on this one, before i move on. I'm still looking forward to the 13 90(i imagine it as a bigger T49 wich is an awesome machine). :)

[Megafusion1]

Rebought tbis tank for the is-6 missions. Making it shine. Having tons of fun and getting exp fast. Just use full gold and you will have a blast

[Search_Warrant]

I bought this tank like 3 days ago and during the megaultra exp weekend with tons of exp. i got it max upgraded in no time. only downside to this tank is ether acceleration or speed. the rest is awesome. i enjoy this tank quite well. (but you know..tier 10 matches with 144 pen aint gonna cut it..but we all know most scouts suffer from this)

[LUNSSI]

first 20 games in this tank and loving it. finnisahed in the top 3 every game bar none!

 

im guessing many try to scout in it.. do an initial run then cease the scouting role.. join up with mediums and go flank.