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AMX 12t is an abysmal tank

amx 12t useless underpowered terrible awful unplayable

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Pillsvich #61 Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:28 AM

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Is it wrong that i absolutely love this tank? Amx12t is an absolute arty and unaware people killer! This tank's a beast and i will continue playing.

Krizmuz #62 Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:10 AM

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I wonder if there is any decent 12t guide after it's Tier6 move. I think I gonna play it like a distraction for enemies peekabooing behind hills and corners while praying that alliies will use the time I won.
Or just suicide myself through it.

The_Cardinal #63 Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:03 AM

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well i don't find it too bad now

but at one point i hated this tank so much when i went  21 games straight yes 21 having my engine knocked out on the first shot! that i bascially stopped playing it and almost threw the towel in on it

bad games

tier 6 games it's awful slowest RoF you get out guned by almost everything thats before you have to reload a new mag

tier 10 games your just one shot out of it and well their veiw range just means you get spotted before them most of the time

tier 8 is where it shines providing those types aren't about to steal your spots

Alot of people who say it's awful are those who only take the standard ammo, so they can't reload the full mag and their there firing off 2 or 3 rounds so they can have the full 6 when really they should be taking HE for killing arty when you fire 3 rounds you can reload the full mag via switching ammo selection

what i do is flank round you should have enough time to fire off 3 rounds then jump into cover reload the full mag and then pop out and circle them putting 6 rounds into there rear those tigers and turreted TDs in particular will have a hard time trying to hit you if you stick close

Amazonius #64 Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:14 AM

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If tank like shit in start then it's means it would be better in higher tiers.

Mko #65 Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:19 AM

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View PostThe_Cardinal, on 06 January 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Alot of people who say it's awful are those who only take the standard ammo, so they can't reload the full mag and their there firing off 2 or 3 rounds so they can have the full 6 when really they should be taking HE for killing arty when you fire 3 rounds you can reload the full mag via switching ammo selection

you can reload by pressing the 'C' key.

View Postpeacefulguy102, on 05 January 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

After 150 matches, you start to know how to play it. You know that 2 shoots kill you, you deal funny damage and you have so little impact on match (i STRESS that ONLY when it's your FIRST tank of this type), that you are just like 'Oh yea, AMX 13 75 researched, it will kick asses for sure!' You sell your AMX12t, buy AMX 13 75, you set a crew from AMX12t, you look at stats and... GOD, ITS THE SAME GUN!

Seriously if it takes 150 battles for anyone to get an idea about how to play the 12t, there is something wrong in their brain.

Edited by Mko, 06 January 2013 - 11:19 AM.


The_Cardinal #66 Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:36 AM

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View PostMko, on 06 January 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

you can reload by pressing the 'C' key.



Seriously if it takes 150 battles for anyone to get an idea about how to play the 12t, there is something wrong in their brain.

ah well WG seems to forget to mention these controls

Instigator #67 Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:32 AM

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I just bought the 12t again in the half price deal. Long time since I owned this beast and it took me ages last time round to understand it. After about 3 or 4 disastrous battles I started to get the hang again but I am far from a master of this. It is even more fun (perhaps also maybe just as frustrating) as I remembered. The fun was relived early as I circled a Lowe penetrating with 5 of my 6 shots and while his turret continually followed me 2 team mates nailed him.

For the originator saying this is abysmal I can mention a recent fight where in an assault team of mostly tier 7 and 8s the last two of us in our team were me and another 12t. I succumbed after nailing T28 Proto and T44 and having a significant contribution towards 3 of the other fellas 5 kills and some of our heavy team mates kills just simply by making the enemy look at me at times. I switched into my teammates tank to watch when I died as he was a far better driver than me and I wanted to learn from him. He was in the cap circle with our last chance of winning and managed to kill a final IS3 tempting them to shoot before hitting them hard and then dodging last minute before they shot again, then shooting time and again to kill them but having to step out of the circle and resetting the clock. Unfortunately for him time run out, although with a longer time he would surely have died as he didn't have any ammo left. Class.

I haven't managed to run out of ammo yet but hope to emulate him one day!

I still think the 13 75 needs a gun with higher penetration (still a 75 would be fine - like the new US one) to make it a tank to aspire to and give a change part way in the long slog to the 90. Of course the top gun of the 12t and 13 75 are both relatively cheap in the gold/alternate credits ammo to make that usable too but I doubt you would make money then unless on premium.

Boomstick1 #68 Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:32 PM

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So you had a couple good games and that makes it a good tank? What? I also had a game where I did 1000 points of damage to an afk Super Pershing, but that's hardly representative.

There's nothing this tank (and the 13 75) does that isn't done better by another tank. Yes, there are extremely rare edge cases where it's ok, but 99% of the time you are completely outmatched by everything you come up against.

I mean let's just look at it's counterparts in the tree, shall we? 1 on 1. T-34-85, nope you lose that fight. VK3601H, lol no chance at all. Easy 8, nope that's a hard sell too. Cromwell, nope again he has the edge with gun depression, accuracy etc. What is the point of the 12t if it's clearly worse than every single other equivalent tank? What is the point? And it's no good saying those are mediums and this is a light; I could (and have) killed all of those tanks in a Chaffee with intelligent play. Not to mention due to the shitty matchmaking you usually fight enemies a lot harder than tier six.

Now sure, I bet you're going to come back with "oh you should never get in a heads up with those tanks" well it's not so easy. You can talk about flanking all you like, but most maps don't have more than a small handful of routes, and guess what everyone on the other team also knows them, and guess what you're probably slower than anyone else in the game looking to flank anyway.

Instigator #69 Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:06 PM

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View PostBoomstick1, on 08 January 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

So you had a couple good games and that makes it a good tank? What? I also had a game where I did 1000 points of damage to an afk Super Pershing, but that's hardly representative.
Nope, had many good games in it - just a couple this time round but a lot first time I owned it. Never said it was a good tank to compare side by side stats wise like you want to. Said it was fun but also said it was frustrating. Cannot believe you can say it is abysmal though if you ever played it well and particularly if you ever watched someone who is class in it. (I am not). I had fun and beat up some decent tanks none of which were idiots (apart from the Lowe) and none of which were afk.


View PostBoomstick1, on 08 January 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

There's nothing this tank (and the 13 75) does that isn't done better by another tank. Yes, there are extremely rare edge cases where it's ok, but 99% of the time you are completely outmatched by everything you come up against.
Haven't seen another auto loader at tier 6 but haven't bothered to look up if I am correct. Auto loader can of course be offset by a simple good RoF - British and US tanks often have that. Also I completely hated AMX 13 75 as I think the gun completely lacks penetration and accuracy (and a bit of extra alpha would be nice but given the choice I pick pen and accuracy first). You have to run up to people to shoot them or stand still and die. Gold ammo (for credits) may offset a little but to me it just seemed like a 12t where the track stays on a little more often.

View PostBoomstick1, on 08 January 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

I mean let's just look at it's counterparts in the tree, shall we? 1 on 1. T-34-85, nope you lose that fight. VK3601H, lol no chance at all. Easy 8, nope that's a hard sell too. Cromwell, nope again he has the edge with gun depression, accuracy etc. What is the point of the 12t if it's clearly worse than every single other equivalent tank? What is the point? And it's no good saying those are mediums and this is a light; I could (and have) killed all of those tanks in a Chaffee with intelligent play. Not to mention due to the shitty matchmaking you usually fight enemies a lot harder than tier six.
Chaffee is a class apart and has similar or higher mm to 12t despite the low tier.

If you play the 12t as a scout you will wish you were in a T50 instead so I don't disagree with comparing it to the meds. I didn't find the T-34-85 fun at, too slow and pretty inaccurate but enjoyed the alpha of the top gun despite getting hit easy. I would be happy to meet one anytime but I acknowledge he can one shot me. VK3601H is probably my favourite tier 6 all rounder (but feels like borderline heavy). Despite that killed 3 in one match day after I got the 12t just before being one shot by some French heavy I stupidly went right up to. Easy 8 is a similar game to the 12t and has similar problems in the armour made of cheese departments but the higher profile means you get hit easier. I would take the 12t out of them 2 except I must say my average XP and credits were higher in the easy 8 - it just wasn't as much fun. Fun matters.

You are right I cannot stand the gun depression (pray you don't have to shoot down or up) - but can you have everything? I like the Cromwell but maybe I am strange as I was more successful in the Crusader! Cromwell is new for me though and perhaps I am a slow learner. I have nailed a Cromwell without him hitting me in the 12t and also lost to a 12t the other way round in my Cromwell - still trying to work out how although I was stock (and will stick to that excuse).

Yes with those tier 6 meds you know damn well you will lose a few and when you lose it is often far too quickly so you were no use to your team. However, you also win win plenty. You will bleat to anyone who will listen (in my case my kids) about the fact you only lost because the darn track fell off again 2nd time in that match and why do repairs cost more than ammo replenish in this piece of junk? Then you will have another go because it was a joy when you were hitting them 3 times in a row with no return shot and you don't hit that same high in your best IS tank.

I know people who swear by the Hellcat and I have watched them play brilliant. I tried that tank and hated it. Loved the top gun but I died too easy too often - way more than in a 12t and didn't matter whether I tried the hide-shoot-move or any other tactic. Does that make it an abysmal tank for the tier? Nope, means I am bad with the tank as the stats of other players prove time and time again.

View PostBoomstick1, on 08 January 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Now sure, I bet you're going to come back with "oh you should never get in a heads up with those tanks" well it's not so easy. You can talk about flanking all you like, but most maps don't have more than a small handful of routes, and guess what everyone on the other team also knows them, and guess what you're probably slower than anyone else in the game looking to flank anyway.
You would be lucky to get in a heads up with these tanks instead of a T44 (class tank compared with those you mentioned). You pray you will get to hit some easy heavies and TDs who are busy concentrating on big guys and you try to get idiots to concentrate on you so that the big guys kill them easy. Lets face it we all love an easy kill and shoot the light whenever we can and you know this if you play a Chaffee.

As for the maps they are there to give different tanks different highs. There are a few I have never had a decent game on in my 12t this time round or last unless you count getting a scout medal and killing an arty but dying in record time because I couldn't face sticking around.

You enjoy the moments you get someone easy to pen like a T20 but the hairs on the back of your neck rise because his 90mm will blow you away and he isn't slow so  unless he is a fool or concentrating on someone else he should win easy. I mention the T20 because I love this tank too and I got battered in it till I realised it is late in the game before it can go out on its own. Need to hunt in packs or stick around looking after arty or a TDs backside early on. TD will love having you behind them then bursting past to turn the enemy.

What I don't get with the crap tank post is what people want? Refund? (wont happen) Buff? (will take a lot of poor stats to go with the moaning). Stick with it and learn it or (like I did with the Churchill VII and Hellcat) give it up as a bad job. Post by all means but respect the right of other people to agree or disagree and acknowledge that some people really can play this tank (way better than me!) Maybe come back later and try again - I was way better in the Tiger second time around.


God that was a long post - must be the Merlot.

Dreadmau5 #70 Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:23 PM

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I agree with Instigator. the AMX 12t IS the first tank to use an autoloader, and that with 144 pen, more than enough to pen the sides of a Tiger II, IS-8, AMX50 100, AMX50 120, T32, every MT ingame, and I'd be surprised if I saw any 144 pen gun bounce on the superstructure of an SPG.
You can't pen the front of anything you're up against that isn't arty, that's a fact. If that doesn't encourage you to start making up strategies for how to flank different HTs, MTs and TDs in different positions on the maps, then you are a noob. That too is a fact.

The AMX 12/13 are NOT designed to go head to head with enemy tanks, they're designed to go gun to rear with them, and then run away before the rear turns around and shows the big fat ugly monster of a gun the enemy's carrying. The 12 doesn't have much in terms of mobility, but it has camouflage, an autoloader, and a gun with low DPS.
Now that perhaps doesn't tell you much, well it shouldn't because the AMX 12t is a Tier 6 tank, and you just got out of the ELC, so you're still "newbies" when it comes to flanking.
So, what does the 12t have that you can make use of?

1. Camouflage. The 12t has it, and the 13 75 has more of it. They are not T-50s, but they have radios, decent viewranges and camo.
Train the crew with camo skill, get a camo net, and try passive scouting when you're put into games with lots of "untouchable" enemy heavy tanks.
2. Autoloader. All French tanks above Tier 7 have it, and the Tier 8 SPG has one too. This means that you can put alot of fire into a single target within a short ammount of time very quickly. 600 damage isn't that much, and it's gonna become less, because you can't put six shells into an enemy before he turns around.
3. Each shell does a low ammount of damage. Of course this is a con since you want to put as much damage as possible into the target, but it can also be a pro, as people generally pay less attention to a gun that deals 100 damage, than to a gun which deals 390 damage, so chances are that the enemy, if distracted, won't pay attention to you, even though you are the biggest threat.
4. Chaos. This is what the AMX 12/13 series are good at. When you get hit, you get worried, and when you can hit six enemies in ten seconds, you can make a whole enemy flank turn towards you if they're stupid enough, allowing teammates to move forward. This strategy of course doesn't work if your team doesn't work, so you won't allways survive. The previous statement does suggest that I beieve most teams to be useful to the individual player, which I do not, so do not come and tell me that trusting the team is suicide as I am imo all too well aware of that allready.

When you have a failtieam, passive scouting works, when your team actually knows how to play, you can do some flanking, take a few shots on enemy side plates just to get credits to cover the repair bill if your team loses the fight.
If you're feeling lucky and truly are, then you can be just as much of a war-winner as any big Tier 9 in terms of XP recieved after battle, even though your gun does 300 less damage, is mounted on a tank three Tiers lower with only half the HP.


It depends on how you play your tank, and how the enemy plays theirs. In the best situation, you have all your tanks constantly firing on the enemy, while they have a few of theirs doing nothing as that gives your team more firepower in the area, and the enemies who do shoot don't know where to shoot. That's the best case scenario. We've all had to make do with alot worse than that, and each of us have managed to turn the tides in some special fight where everything seemed to be lost.
A wize guy once said that it doesn't matter what you have, but what you do with it. If you bring in an MS-1 then obviously it will run out of ammo before it can kill a Tier 10, but a Tier 6 like the 12t is still useful. You just have to figure out how to play it.


DISCLAIMER: "You just have to figure out how to play it" should not be interpreted as "Learn to drive it". The message was that no matter how skilled you are, there's allways something that you don't know about the game, because with the endless patches, you'll never be able to learn everything. Figure out what mistake you made, and create a solution for the situation in which you made the mistake, which doesn't put you in troubble.
This is of course impossible, as there will never be a "perfect solution" to every problem, and therefore, your gameplay can be endlessly improved. That's not an insult, it's logic.

Wimopy #71 Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

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Well, I got myself an AMX 12t this weekend on half price, and after 17 battles (yes, I know, "that's nothing" "17 battles won't tell anything) I have to say that it's actually fun to drive this thing.

My impression so far is that this thing should be played NOTHING (bit exaggerated there, there are some similarities) like other lights you may have played. It's got terrible acceleration and even more terrible armour. Some lights survive shots by bouncing them, others by evading them (or both, like the T-50s). The AMX 12 can do neither, all it CAN do is absorb it with raw HP (and pray the modules don't get hit).

Now, I've certainly not got the hang of this tank yet, but I can say that it has that special power that ELC and the T-50s had for me. It's enjoyable (after it accelerates). I'm not sure how much the gun and radio will broaden its uses, but a fun tank that doesn't eat away money (like T-50-2 and most high tier tanks [SPGs]) is always good and I do see a lot of potential in it.

By the way, I'm getting mainly tier 7 battles and some rare tier 9s, is that normal or was I lucky with the stock tank?

caddie666 #72 Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

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Just love the 12t myself, haven't played many battles (only 53) so far but in my earlier games i got in one battle:

71303 credits
2155 xp and Mastery badge.

So what?, it's weak, but it's damn fun to play if you play it right.

Amazonius #73 Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:46 AM

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I see many players choosing tanks for armors and guns(mostly).... french tanks don't have so much armors but can chase up some tanks.

Edited by Aurimas199203, 12 January 2013 - 07:46 AM.


CaptainKoczulab #74 Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

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Armor? It's a french what do you expect?
No mobility ? It's the only tank i have been doging shells in on one track  :Smile_trollface-3: USE THE TERRAIN to your advantage !
I really really like my AMX 12T (but it has some MM problems atm. This is not fun while it's top-tier!)

In tier 8-10 tier battles i will try to get into a passive scout spot. As "soon" as the enemy tank are "well"-engaged with my teammates. I start driving around and used the speed and the small profile to flank td's and mediums.
I think it's perfect for it's role as a small hit-and-run tank. It has decent camo and can easily sit forward of your teammates and spot for them. (AND yes there is problems : Enemy scouts will be your biggest concern: T71 is the worst piece of Anti-AMX ever created)
No gun depression can be overcomed by using the terrain (Never never use this as a pop-over-the-hill tank > you will die)
Learn the weakspots of enemy high-tiers TD's > Fire will be your friend > Burn you enemy TD while your turning towards me
Track heavy's and call down arty on them > Patrol Duty here we come
Run if seeing any Type 59, T-43,T-44,T-54,T21,T20,T71,Comets (they will make you a wreck very fast) Cromwell drivers seems to "belive" they can take you on, but the mostly fail > if you have a full clip.
Try parking behind a Maus/Jp-100 > You'r an effective stopping-block (but you will take small dmg)

WG don't need to change AMX 12T only the MM (I'll rather be in a tier 10 game, than a tier 6)

I'm using
Camo-net / GLD / Improved Vents on my AMX 12T
Crew got 100 % camo / Sixth Sense, Deadeye, C-braking
Only brings AP / Prem shells (nn HE) (This is in my eyes the biggest downfall your VERY limited numbers of shells) > I run out of armor constantly  :Smile_confused:
Got 650+ battles in this, Win-ratio of 53%, Mastery-badge (Patrol-duty + Spartan + Sniper i think it was), 400+ destroyed targets, Hit-ratio of 67%

It's a hard tank to use to full advantage but i love it so much! My little french TD-slayer  :Smile_veryhappy:
The AMX13 75 on the other hand > Give me a better gun NOW!!! even a derp gun will be better!

Regards Dzerzjinskij

Edited by Dzerzjinskij, 14 January 2013 - 01:28 PM.


Aguerra #75 Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

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The MM is the problem.

I've tried it for few battles and it's very difficult to use properly. It's too clumsy for scouting or circle of death, and the overall firepower is bad. It has neither armor nor hit points to soak hits. The gun aims quite slowly and has no depression. The autoloader gives you no advantage at all since all other 75mms reload just as fast at T6.

Can it fight? Easy8 reloads faster and has a bigger gun. T 34-85 has much bigger gun. No armor, no hit points, no enough agility to circle.

So it's a flanker? Perhaps, but any light or medium is good for flanking. If easy8 flanks you you're dead. If 34-85 flanks you you're dead. Nothing new here.

It can camoscout? Perhaps, but so can Hellcat, which has much better gun.

Can it active scout? ELC is much better, and it's T5 anyway. Why T6 light gets scout MM? My covenanter is T4 light and has much fairer MM.

It feel little up against other T6, but it often ends against T8-9 where it's already weak performance gets even weaker.

With all the love and adoration set aside I can't see how it's particularly good in anything. Some of you have had good battles with it, but that's no argument. With enough battles anyone is likely to have few good ones. Myself, I've also managed to shoot 1800+ dmg with amx12 but in same situation any real tank would have fared even better. And this was with very good luck. With bad luck this vehicle leaves you down mercilessly.

The good points? Small hull, kinda fast, good in some situations. But for most of us it's only a nasty stone along the path to the might Bat.

Edited by Aguerra, 17 January 2013 - 02:14 PM.


nautalihas #76 Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:45 AM

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I did find that the 12t is a real fun tank to play, being the underdog makes all the success all the more rewarding, but you'll spend a great many games wondering what to do. It just isnt very capable for the tier. If you are top tier you still have to wait for opportunity to arise, it just cant handle a straight up fight. Most things said here are true but i think there are a few with a bit rosy outlook the stats just dont lend themselves to anything exceptional,

Major_Digger #77 Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:02 AM

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I had 199 battles (all randoms, no platoon) with the 12t, 63% winrate, 712 average exp, 171 kills...not great, but ok imho.

I played it like Dreadmau5 describes here:

http://forum.worldof...37#entry3699737

Imho this tank is very difficult to drive, but it's not impossible to be useful for the team.  :Smile_blinky:

I made a little AMX 12T video a while ago, hope you enjoy it:



...believe me, it's real fun to kill big enemy tanks with this piece of crap.  :Smile_veryhappy:

P.S. I sold the 12t a while ago, not missing it at all... AMX 1390 is much more fun to play.  :Smile_blinky:

Edited by Trommelfeuer, 20 January 2013 - 03:03 AM.


McLovers #78 Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:32 PM

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I was playing my elc the other day and saw the AMX 12t just ramage our team, he took out 7 of us, he was extremely clever and I didn't see him coming at all, he didn't rush us, and he hammered our team in the latter stages of the match.

HazCZ #79 Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:17 PM

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Ive grinded through AMX 12t to get AMX 13 75...but I didnt sold it. I had few nice battles in it and despite fact that I agree with many bad things about this tank said above, I'll just keep it and I'll have fun with it from time to time...and mainly - in a year or two, I might even grind enough xps to research french arty, which I would like to try at least (its incredibly nimble and fast even at high tiers IMHO).

BTW, I like the fact, that you really have to use your brain and wits with this tank more than with many others. You just have to plan your hit and run strike carefully to be succesfull...and If it works, it's much better feeling than if you are just running around in heavy as top tier bouncing most of shots or killing enemies from afar with arty. I like challenge.

Edited by HazCZ, 21 January 2013 - 12:21 PM.


Rosetta_and_Philae #80 Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:35 PM

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Splendid sniper tank with high camo values. :Smile_Default:





Also tagged with amx, 12t, useless, underpowered, terrible, awful, unplayable

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