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Tree/Bush remover, considered cheating?

Tree Bush skin removal modify

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Poll: Tree/Bush modification (382 members have cast votes)

What is your opinion of the mod?

  1. Cheating (221 votes [57.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.85%

  2. Permittable (76 votes [19.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.90%

  3. Questionable (85 votes [22.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.25%

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ThaElf #1 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:22 AM

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Just saw a thread being removed by moderator and would claim this thread valid.

There was discussion on hitboxskins and also a tree and bush removing/modifying mod and to my surprise before actually finishing reading it I hitted refresh for more and got an error.

What is community opinion, is this permittable, or not? This ain't your average 'lol I've got Maus changed to Leopard!' modification. This creates pros and cons.

You can see thru the bushes easier ( spotting stays the same, but tank layout is visible without hindrance ), but you also cannot see the outlines of bushes that well. Pros and cons.

My guess it was similar to this ( just googling it for some sort of reference )
http://forum.worldof...-flames-please/

-
The removed topic
http://forum.worldof...-real-teamwork/

TempSGK #2 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:25 AM

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Does removing bushes improve FPS significantly?

JayJay4466 #3 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:26 AM

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Tricky one that.

It does give the user an advantage, but then I use a reticule mod that I suppose gives me an advantage (particularly the reload countdown timer).

So whilst I wouldn't use it myself, and I lean towards the view that it is a cheat, I suppose i'm in danger of being a hippocrite by virtue of the fact that I use a mod too.

Fedajkin1989 #4 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:27 AM

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Ever tried leading a target 300m away from you while having your view obstructed by a bush that is just far enough in front of you  to not be transparent? Or maybe trying to hit a weakspot through a bush like that? Much easier if the bush wasn't there, which is an advantage, and which is why if you use it in any sort of tournament you will be disqualified/banned for it.

INFLAMES #5 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:28 AM

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View PostTempSGK, on 16 November 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

Does removing bushes improve FPS significantly?

Yes it apparently does I can see this as being a positive but im unsure if you are able to see through bushes as if they were not there rather than having the outlines of leafs and trees in your way partly blocking your vision.

Why was this thread removed?
(for the record I dont like hit box's either and refuse to use em)

FreakDC #6 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:29 AM

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I have problems with trees and bushes and the hack job implementation they did with them. My FPS drops like crazy in certain situations with semi transparent bushes/trees. From ~60 fps to 10-20 (barely playable to unplayable).

But I don't use the bush/tree remover because it does give you a significant advantage (way easier to lead a target with no bushes) and it's officially considered cheating by WG.

I think WG needs to fix their darn render already to remove the legit necessity to remove bushes.

INFLAMES #7 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:30 AM

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View PostJayJay4466, on 16 November 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

Tricky one that.

It does give the user an advantage, but then I use a reticule mod that I suppose gives me an advantage (particularly the reload countdown timer).

So whilst I wouldn't use it myself, and I lean towards the view that it is a cheat, I suppose i'm in danger of being a hippocrite by virtue of the fact that I use a mod too.

So you have timers for other tanks reloads hovering over them?

Cpt_Jack_Sparrow #8 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:32 AM

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Hi there!

Hitboxes.... I do not think if you really can say that it is a problem, because we all shoot on the weakspots or engines etc. At least we should xD

Removing bushes is something what gives you a significant advantage, so I think it should not be permitted and in fact it is not allowed.

I only can refer to a german thread in this forum about it, where Panzergert the German Community Coordinator confirms these facts of this thread

http://forum.worldof...er-version-080/

in this post

http://forum.worldof...80#entry2944512

Regards

Jack

JayJay4466 #9 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:33 AM

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View PostINFLAMES, on 16 November 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

So you have timers for other tanks reloads hovering over them?

Oh no- just that the countdown in seconds for my reload is more precise than just the bar you get on the default one.

Seeing others' reload times- now that would be handy! (and most definitely a cheat!)

Cpt_Jack_Sparrow #10 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:36 AM

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View PostJayJay4466, on 16 November 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Oh no- just that the countdown in seconds for my reload is more precise than just the bar you get on the default one.

Seeing others' reload times- now that would be handy! (and most definitely a cheat!)

I like that idea ^^

INFLAMES #11 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:37 AM

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View PostJayJay4466, on 16 November 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Oh no- just that the countdown in seconds for my reload is more precise than just the bar you get on the default one.

Seeing others' reload times- now that would be handy! (and most definitely a cheat!)

:Smile_ohmy:  was gunna say, that would be cheating :P

having your own reload timer however seems fine to me!

JayJay4466 #12 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:40 AM

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View PostINFLAMES, on 16 November 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

:Smile_ohmy:  was gunna say, that would be cheating :P

having your own reload timer however seems fine to me!

Well for me (as an oldie with dodgy reflexes) I find that in one-on-ones it allows me to fire at the split second the gun is loaded, which can make the difference between life and death sometimes!

So more like overcoming a personal deficiency than an out and out cheat (that's what I tell myself anyway!)

Edited by JayJay4466, 16 November 2012 - 04:40 AM.


INFLAMES #13 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:52 AM

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View PostJayJay4466, on 16 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Well for me (as an oldie with dodgy reflexes) I find that in one-on-ones it allows me to fire at the split second the gun is loaded, which can make the difference between life and death sometimes!

So more like overcoming a personal deficiency than an out and out cheat (that's what I tell myself anyway!)

I see  :Smile_teethhappy: I guess the older generations require some sort of aid, kinda like a zimoframe for reload reactions  :Smile-hiding:

ThaElf #14 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:53 AM

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View PostINFLAMES, on 16 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

Why was this thread removed?
(for the record I dont like hit box's either and refuse to use em)
I have no record, it merely vanished and I knew about mod being around but I didn't finger it out for it seemed 'just another mod' type. Now after seeing a thread being swamped without notice or warning I became suspicious... And knowing the hearts of fellow tankers is always welcome. And I would had actually before this incident RECOMMEND this mod because of FPS increase... now I would not. As a fact I use no mods on my end... Merely grabling statistics at most after game session. I always have thought about having full fledged skin modding for tanks as it changes nothing, just like in good old CS. :) But... I'm too lazy to find suitables for ALL the tanks... Too bothersome. So grey, green, tan... all the colours to come are to stay. :)

View PostJayJay4466, on 16 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Well for me (as an oldie with dodgy reflexes) I find that in one-on-ones it allows me to fire at the split second the gun is loaded, which can make the difference between life and death sometimes!

So more like overcoming a personal deficiency than an out and out cheat (that's what I tell myself anyway!)
I learnt that the meter hits precise on timer ( without any clock ) when the mouse is pushed down... Getting used to the feeling of a tank might take time, but I would not have time for looking at the timer when aiming that moving weakspot... I just use the guts on when the blink of eye turns green. :)

JayJay4466 #15 Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:54 AM

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View PostINFLAMES, on 16 November 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

I see  :Smile_teethhappy: I guess the older generations require some sort of aid, kinda like a zimoframe for reload reactions  :Smile-hiding:

He He! You've got it! Pity me and my arthritic fingers!

MarsRover #16 Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:00 AM

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A while ago there was a thread with devs regarding the op's issue. I dont know where that thread went but to summarize what was responded by  the devs in that thread :

"Just like the hitbox skins mod, the tree crown removal mod is just another mod that changes visual appearances of certain ingame objects. Despite giving the user the advantage of seeing through bushes, it is also readily available for everyone to use. Therefore we (WG) has concluded that this mod is not illegal thus can be used by anyone interested"

Anyone can help me with a link to that thread would be helpful thanks.

Kenpachi1985 #17 Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:06 AM

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The tree/bush remove is definitely a cheat. Bushes and trees are meant to reduce your view not only for "spotted" and "not spotted" but also your general view. Changing that basic element is a forbidden modification.

*edit* MarsRover, the mod (AgentOrange - tree/bush remover) is declared as FORBIDDEN by WG. If you use it and WG finds out, your account gets banned.

Edited by Kenpachi1985, 16 November 2012 - 06:11 AM.


Snib #18 Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:07 AM

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View PostJayJay4466, on 16 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Well for me (as an oldie with dodgy reflexes) I find that in one-on-ones it allows me to fire at the split second the gun is loaded, which can make the difference between life and death sometimes!
Hardly an advantage considering it'll fire automatically as soon as it reloads if you hold the left mouse button down anyway.

As to OP: Sure it's a cheat, Russian devs said it's bannable, but nobody ever gets banned for mods anyway, so cheat away.

Verus #19 Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:14 AM

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They need to stop allowing people to mod the game especially when it comes to using the game as an e-sport. Using mods to remove bushes, tree or mods that shows weakpoints on tanks in colors is simply cheating and gives certain players an unfair advantage. Same goes for being able to mod the skins of the tanks making it easier for the players to instantly recognize them before even seeing the whole tank.

Simply put in a file checker in the loader that checks that all files are unmodified.

Should also bring them in a lot more money as people can´t use moded skins but have to buy the ones in the actual game.

GoldStar #20 Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:39 AM

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I voted for cheat... but then I realized that it is a disadvantage as well. whether or not your enemy uses this mod or not you yourself can't hide behind a bush as you do know where they are. So...

Maybe I am from a generation that do not believe in cheat as advantage.
Cheats ruin the game play and fun for all. The one that uses the cheat gets bored within 2 days for winning everything and the one without the cheat gets bored within two days for losing everything.
A lost-lost situation is bad for everything.