Jump to content


Ferdinand or JagdPanther II?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
33 replies to this topic

Poll: Vote (63 members have cast votes)

Which one?

  1. Ferdinand (31 votes [49.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 49.21%

  2. JPII (32 votes [50.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.79%

Vote Hide poll

Siimcy #1 Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:21 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14779 battles
  • 1,368
  • [S3AL] S3AL
  • Member since:
    02-03-2011
Hey!


I'm just around 10k exp away from either the Ferdi or the JPII, and can't decide, but I somehow lean more towards the Ferdinand due to its armor.

I'll just make it simple, state your reason, and vote in the poll above.

Alzoc #2 Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:27 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 15501 battles
  • 1,306
  • Member since:
    01-03-2012
The Jp II without the beginning of a doubt. Both upper superstructure front will bounce most things sent to them. Both lower hull are like cheese for any tier 7 tank.

Both cary the same guns, but the Jp II has a slitghly better RoF on all of them.

The ferdi is slow and cannot be maneuvred. The Jp II on the contrary is extremely agile and fast.

Edited by Alzoc, 18 December 2012 - 08:29 PM.


Harl3quinn #3 Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:35 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 5695 battles
  • 86
  • Member since:
    10-22-2011
Depends on your play style, If you like fairly static positions with good amour, and if need be a steady advance then go with the Ferdi . If you lean more towards being able to re-position quickly and take advantage of a flank position or change flank if needed and a more dynamic play style the go with the JPII. And both have the same gun which is great.

I  have played both an awful lot and tho' I love the Ferdi , The JPII Just takes the medal for me.

Siimcy #4 Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14779 battles
  • 1,368
  • [S3AL] S3AL
  • Member since:
    02-03-2011
It's so hard to decide really. Penning the JP2 with Stug III made me wonder how in the hell can it have a bouncy armor, but then again I always aim for the lower hull or any additional useless turrets which are usually neat weakspots.

Alzoc #5 Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:20 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 15501 battles
  • 1,306
  • Member since:
    01-03-2012

View PostSiimcy, on 18 December 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

It's so hard to decide really. Penning the JP2 with Stug III made me wonder how in the hell can it have a bouncy armor, but then again I always aim for the lower hull or any additional useless turrets which are usually neat weakspots.

That's true that lower tier gun can pierce the Jp II armor. Well it's based on german medium wich doesn't start with E-50.

But anygun from 180 pen (pershing) and more can reliably go throught the Ferdi hull. Even if it's shown yellow (even for my Löwe and it's 234 mm pen but I never bounced once). And 180 pen is a really low amount for a tier 8, even for a tier 7.

Silverforce #6 Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:16 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 2415 battles
  • 564
  • Member since:
    03-29-2012

View PostAlzoc, on 18 December 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

But anygun from 180 pen (pershing) and more can reliably go throught the Ferdi hull. Even if it's shown yellow (even for my Löwe and it's 234 mm pen but I never bounced once). And 180 pen is a really low amount for a tier 8, even for a tier 7.

No. Not at all. It's 200mm for real, only a few small weakspots (lower hull, small sides). You need 225 pen guns to reliably go through. But with so much premium ammo spam these days armor is almost worthless.

Alzoc #7 Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 15501 battles
  • 1,306
  • Member since:
    01-03-2012
Guess you never fired at ferdi with a persh. I did and going throught it's LFP is not a prob (without gold of course)

Chewiezohrr #8 Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:12 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 25782 battles
  • 2,430
  • [3VS27] 3VS27
  • Member since:
    01-19-2012
Ferdinand is superior in every way.

- Ferdinand can be a sniper
- fully upgraded can be played like JP1

Those two are what JP2 also has, that is where it ends.

- Ferdinand can be "the best city brawler" due to its extremely good gun arc and armor
- Ferdinand can reliably bounce shots, unlike JP at its tier JP2 isn't as bouncy  (I can't remember ever dinging a JP2, except with <140 pen cannons)

The only thing you will regret by going Ferdinand is that you will have to grind to get its top configuration, stock Ferdinand is pretty terrible, without the gun it's not that efficient (2nd unlock after tracks), without the engine (but with the top gun) it won't reach fights most of the time, because even if it's an excellent sniper, Ferdinand is the best brawler (tier 8, 9 and 10 play different compared to the usual play style for everything below, Ferdinand has the most aggressive play style, so for your further advancement Ferdinand would once again be the better choice).

Edited by Chewiezohrr, 19 December 2012 - 12:15 AM.


Alzoc #9 Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:42 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 15501 battles
  • 1,306
  • Member since:
    01-03-2012
Wow first time I see somebody saying the ferdi is a brawler. It's armor doesn't work at long range so at close range?!
Then come it's slow speed and slow rotation speed. At close range it's an easy meal for any med ir light if unsupported, even some heavy can flank it.

johncl #10 Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:07 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 32762 battles
  • 1,249
  • Member since:
    05-02-2011
both nice .....I like Jp2 better fly in unload 12.8mm of doom get out again,,, I play this as a second half of the battle TD ,,,,wait until the heavy s have taken chunks out of each other then destroy !!!

Chewiezohrr #11 Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:19 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 25782 battles
  • 2,430
  • [3VS27] 3VS27
  • Member since:
    01-19-2012

View PostAlzoc, on 19 December 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Wow first time I see somebody saying the ferdi is a brawler. It's armor doesn't work at long range so at close range?!
Then come it's slow speed and slow rotation speed. At close range it's an easy meal for any med ir light if unsupported, even some heavy can flank it.

It has armor, speed, traverse and an insane gun arc for a reason.

I have no idea what tank you played, but this tank has very good mobility and acceleration even if it doesn't have the top speed of JP 2. If you do the math you'll understand how being a brawler with 200mm armor + the angle you'd get with 15 gun arc would make this tank impenetrable in a city fight, don't treat your average WoT player like some kind of genius, your average WoT player keeps an IS 4 busy the entire game without losing 1 hp in Ferdinand and that is face to face, forget about angling behind a corner in city.

JP 1 is the last bushwacker (because it's forced to be) on the German TD line, with the optional, but irrelevant JP 2 as an extra.

Edited by Chewiezohrr, 19 December 2012 - 01:24 AM.


HulkEkmek #12 Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:44 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 5931 battles
  • 84
  • Member since:
    08-16-2012
Ferdinand. I bounced 5 shots from 2 IS3 in a row and destroyed both. I cant imagine the same thing happens with JP2.

Silverforce #13 Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:50 AM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 2415 battles
  • 564
  • Member since:
    03-29-2012

View PostAlzoc, on 18 December 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

Guess you never fired at ferdi with a persh. I did and going throught it's LFP is not a prob (without gold of course)

LFP is one of the weakspots, relatively small compared to the entire hull on Ferdi 2 (also frontal engine fires!!). If you hit the mid and upper front hull on Ferdi, it needs 225+ pen to reliably go through.

Ascender #14 Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 19183 battles
  • 2,700
  • Member since:
    12-03-2010

View PostHulkEkmek, on 19 December 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

Ferdinand. I bounced 5 shots from 2 IS3 in a row and destroyed both. I cant imagine the same thing happens with JP2.
You say that now but my Tiger II with it's top gun (225mm penetration) never had many issues penetrating Ferdinand's hull even at the additional armor plated parts. With anything Tier 9 and above firepower-wise it has no problems getting through the superstructure. The T34 is included in the list of vehicles easily capable of penetrating the superstructure of the Ferdi.

My vote goes out to JagdPanther II, maybe Ferdi will prepare you better for JT, but all in all i feel JagdPanther II provides most of the pros with less cons (again including a very strong superstructure armor, you just notice it less because the entire vehicle is lower mostly at the expense of the superstructure size).

Dr_Fresh #15 Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:50 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 27611 battles
  • 101
  • [UNICA] UNICA
  • Member since:
    09-07-2011
These days it seems to be that the JP II is the better tank but the JP lacks a 2nd Loader which you need for the Jagdtiger. And then you can start with a rookie-loader at Tier 9.

And the Ferdi is the better JT-Trainer as well :)

Don´t get me wrong the Ferdi is still a great Tank Destroyer.

Alzoc #16 Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 15501 battles
  • 1,306
  • Member since:
    01-03-2012

View PostSilverforce, on 19 December 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

LFP is one of the weakspots, relatively small compared to the entire hull on Ferdi 2 (also frontal engine fires!!). If you hit the mid and upper front hull on Ferdi, it needs 225+ pen to reliably go through.

From WoT armory

"The frontal armor scheme of the Ferdinand is analog to the Tiger P. You can penetrate “Ferdi” at the same places"

http://wotarmory.com...tection-report/


Posted Image

As you can see the yellow plate is easy to penetrate, is hard to hide. Not even speaking about the LFP and the green plates on the sides of the yellow one (~100mm thick)

So in close range nobody is stupid enough to shoot at the superstructure or at the frontal plate.

And even at long range the yellow plate is still a big target for most guns.

Here come the armor scheme of the Jp II

Posted Image

While the hull is obsivouly weaker, but anyway neither of the hull will bounce stuff, the superstructure is 225 mm thick, I think the ferdi's one is 20mm thicker but with less angle, think it bring them to the same level of armor on that superstructure. So why would you bother with the heavy and useless ferdi hull while you can have the lighter, faster, and more agile Jp II. And as some saids, yes you have one less loader but you have the top engine of the JT immediatly, mean you only have to reschearch the tracks and the top gun. And a powerfull engine is very important for a TD as it will increase it's turning speed.

Chewiezohrr #17 Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:25 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 25782 battles
  • 2,430
  • [3VS27] 3VS27
  • Member since:
    01-19-2012
JP 2 doesn't bounce, plain and simple, Ferdinand even if you refuse to believe can actually bounce shots  from tier 10s and it still will always be "THE" best brawler there is as a TD with Proto a distant 2nd best  due to all its flaws.

Ferdinand is good at everything and has roles JP 2 doesn't, JP 2 is only a camper that can relocate fast, like JP1.

Edited by Chewiezohrr, 19 December 2012 - 02:28 PM.


Siimcy #18 Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:27 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14779 battles
  • 1,368
  • [S3AL] S3AL
  • Member since:
    02-03-2011
I can't really say which to pick, I never ever had problems penetrating the JP2, even with 150mm pen you can easily penetrate it, but that's because I know where the most weakspots are. I'm aiming towards the JagdTiger anyways, my dream TD to be. ;)

Alzoc #19 Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:34 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 15501 battles
  • 1,306
  • Member since:
    01-03-2012

View PostChewiezohrr, on 19 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

JP 2 doesn't bounce, plain and simple, Ferdinand even if you refuse to believe can actually bounce shots  from tier 10s and it still will always be "THE" best brawler there is as a TD with Proto a distant 2nd best  due to all its flaws.

Yes Jp II doesn't bounce on hull and bounce on upperstructure.

Same goes for the ferdi. It is not that I refuse to believe that the ferdi can bounce tier X shoots. It is that I go throught with every singly shoots from my tier VIII tanks. And anybody else (you excepted of course) will say the same.

The ferdi has the capacity to bounce tier X guns true. But nobody at tier X or lower will ever shoot at it's strong points. Same for any tank.

Besides angling nearly irelevant in the Ferdi because it has rather weak sides, and even if you don not angle too much, therefore not making it's sides vulnerable. You always bring of those 106 mm side plates near 90° to ennemy fire.

It is you who cannot accept that the Ferdi is a TD, not an agile brawler. Never been build for this, never worked at this. And it is far from being godly bouncy.

Edited by Alzoc, 19 December 2012 - 02:36 PM.


Chewiezohrr #20 Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:44 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 25782 battles
  • 2,430
  • [3VS27] 3VS27
  • Member since:
    01-19-2012
I have hundreds of games on Ferdinand, you have 0, do tell me more about how to play this tank, while we're at it, JT also plays similarly (only a little shy compared to Ferdinand) and yeah I was very successful with JT, it doesn't have the speed and size to just camp around (like most people think this is exactly the only thing JT can do) and be shot down by arty.

I find it disturbing that you associate brawling in a city with a 15 gun arc with "Ferdi because it has rather weak sides", seriously, what on earth am I reading, are you for real?

You're not even looking at the pictures you provided for the love of God, JP 2 is a sizable tank nobody is gonna look for weak spots or even worse shoot at its gun where it actually has armor, everyone is going to shoot right at its hull where "everything" can penetrate (yes, even terrible players will blow you up, not because they know how to shoot, but because that's where they always shoot and ironically that's the place this tank can't stand hits to), and that part you can't hide that easily or angle at some insane values most of the time.

Remember...if you can shoot at weakspots, it doesn't mean monkeys can, and WoT is full of monkeys, Tiger P and Ferdinand are monsters and you should give them proper credit or play them (even a single match...) and learn how to profit from their pros, statistics mean jack shizz, it's what you make of the tank that counts also have a look on the forums, it's regarded as an excellent battle tank, you should accept your limited and narrowminded view and see Ferdinand for what it really is, a tank that excels at "everything".

Edited by Chewiezohrr, 19 December 2012 - 03:07 PM.