925 replies to this topic

[@Doomlord52]

Yea, basically anyone who's gotten a Tiger or other heavy tank in the current version knows the status of it know. Basically this thread is a place where we can put all our complaints and ideas on how to fix these tanks so they arent the useless piece of junk it is right now.

Now, I can only speak with experience about the Tiger, so im going to talk about the two problems that affect it, as well as just about every other heavy tank in the game. Basically swap the tiger-specific words with your heavy tanks specifics, and its about the same.



1) Firstly, its armor is horribly weak. Literally every gun can hurt it, even at the front of it. In real life during world-war two, you could basically point the front of a Tiger to the enemy and basically just sit there. US army tests showed that for the standard Sherman 75mm gun to get through it, the gun basically had to be touching the tank. At about 400m, the armor penetration was 76mm, not neary enough to get through the tigers 100mm front armor. However, in world of tanks, the only way to survive frontal shots is to angle your tank so that anything that hits the front is basically hitting a 45 degree slope. Why? Why is the most feared tank of the war so weak that it has to take special care to make sure its frontal armor has to be angle specifically?

Just today I was killed by a frontal shot from the standard Panzer IV gun at about 500m. In reality, the Panzer IV would basically have to be at 100m to get through. Basically, here's a pic to show how strong the armor was:


Yea, tons of dents, not a single hit that did any actual damage. However, in game, everything is lethal.


2) Secondly, the 88 seems a bit underpowered. I've literally had 88 shells bounce of the BACK of a panzer III ausf A. Last I checked, that thing had around 15mm of armor in the back, how is this possible? Even a penetrating shot only brings it down to 50% health most of the time (you can fluke 1-shot a PZIII A). The 88 was the most feared gun of the war, why is it so incredibly tame now? Panzer IV frontal hits only take 25-30% health per shot. The real-life stats of the 88 basically had it taking out around 83mm of armor at 2000m, which is still MORE armor than the PIV has at the front, yet at 300m in game, you can have shots bounce of it.

Also, the 88 is horribly inaccurate. At 450m, you will have trouble hitting a sitting target - an ENTIRE tank. In reality, the 88 (according to British fire testing during WW2) had it hitting 41 by 46 cm targets at over 1,200m, with almost 100% accuracy. Basically the accuracy of the game's 88 is magnitudes worse than reality. Why is this?



Basically, that's what I think is wrong about this tank. Its been said there was an armor nerf back in the RU beta, but im not 100% sure on the specifics of it. Most of the heavy tanks suffer these problems as well, generally being under armored and underpowered. What do you guys think? Is it even worth getting a heavy tank in the current state? Tell the community and devs what you think.

[Not_a_Mod]

I'm not into all this realistic stuff but I'm satisfied with my IS and I was satisfied with my 1S. The KV sucked but other than that I really don't see any problems.
I use a 122m gun and get between 3-8 kills a game.

My only problem would be that I don't really make any money without premium but I can't say that I didn't expect that.

In my opinion in game with a good team Heavy Tanks can perform just as well as anything else of its rank.

[Trebs]

It is worth getting a heavy tank

But the Tiger tank is not as good as it look's
75mm Cannon can penetrate the armor on the front of the tiger

Best idea is to get the next tank asap

The King Tiger is 80% Better

Turret Turn Rate is Excellent
Turn Rate is Excellent
Fire Power is Excellent
Armor is Excellent
Reload Rate is Decent/Ok

Testet with 5 Crew member's on 110%
[15% Extra Armor]
[10% Faster Reload]

Also seem's to have a less chance to get on fire

[@Doomlord52]

^ That may be true, but it doesnt excuse the Tiger being terrible - or most of the other early heavy tanks.

[ramp4ge]

A KV-3 can 2-shot a Tiger thru it's frontal armor. A Tiger can barly dent a KV-3.

A Tiger will catch fire and explode 1 out of 5 games. It will take heavy subsystem damage 3 out of 5 games. It will take heavy subsystem damage to shots that do not penetrate it's hull. It is not uncommon for a non-penetrating hit to take out Tiger's gun, turret, ammo, engine, tracks (Both), and 3 or 4 crew all at the same time.

A Tiger will bounce, even with it's upgraded gun, on Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs. Tiger will bounce on Hetzer frontal armor. Tiger will bounce on Stug front armor. Stug and Hetzer will both penetrate Tiger frontal armor.

The Tiger is broken.

[@earthshaker]

coz we TD's use HE rounds when we see a heavy tank.. we cant penetrate your armor so we go for vital subsystems..and even hitting your tracks to keep you pinned down.. so if ever the devs give in to your ideas. so meaning this tank is indestructible ingame? what will happen to the other tanks then? so meaning you can kill all tanks by yourself in 1 session? we already have problems destroying your tigers,for us its already fine. hard but not invincible. but very hard.and you want yourself to give it another notch? sweet mother of mercy..

[ramp4ge]

Then your tank destroyer's HE shouldn't do hull damage since the shots aren't penetrating the hull.

After the armor nerf, when someone couldn't damage the hull of a heavily armored tank, they switched to HE and started doing damage to it anyway. That's completely ass-backwards and if anything is an exploit. HE is not designed to damage heavily armored tanks. It's designed to quickly kill soft targets or damage individual subsystems on heavily armored tanks, not damage multiple subsystems at once AND damage the hull.

HE doing heavy hull damage AND critical subsystem damage to heavily armored tanks is an exploit and it needs to be fixed. AP is supposed to pierce armor, not HE.

But I do have to ask..

What gives your tank destroyer the right to penetrate the frontal armor on my Tiger while I bounce on your tank destroyer? It bounces on Hetzers for Christs' sake. I could by 8 Hetzers for the price of my Tiger, and your Hetzer can penetrate my Tiger's frontal armor while my Tiger bounces on your Hetzer.

And now they're getting buffed to be faster and practically invisible when they're not moving ON TOP of their advantage of being hard to spot already?

Is that balanced to you?

The armor nerf broke heavy tanks. That's all there is to it. There's no reason to play a heavy.

[@Doomlord52]

@ Earthshaker
No, we're asking for it to be fixed so that its balanced, not horribly underpowered. Right now the Tiger is basically the weakest tank (for its tier) by a huge amount - in fact, the VK3601, which comes BEFORE the tier is in fact a better tank all around.

[@eorthstapa]

ramp4ge, on 16 July 2010 - 03:32 AM, said:

Then your tank destroyer's HE shouldn't do hull damage since the shots aren't penetrating the hull.

After the armor nerf, when someone couldn't damage the hull of a heavily armored tank, they switched to HE and started doing damage to it anyway. That's completely ass-backwards and if anything is an exploit. HE is not designed to damage heavily armored tanks. It's designed to quickly kill soft targets or damage individual subsystems on heavily armored tanks, not damage multiple subsystems at once AND damage the hull.

HE doing heavy hull damage AND critical subsystem damage to heavily armored tanks is an exploit and it needs to be fixed. AP is supposed to pierce armor, not HE.

But I do have to ask..

What gives your tank destroyer the right to penetrate the frontal armor on my Tiger while I bounce on your tank destroyer? It bounces on Hetzers for Christs' sake. I could by 8 Hetzers for the price of my Tiger, and your Hetzer can penetrate my Tiger's frontal armor while my Tiger bounces on your Hetzer.

And now they're getting buffed to be faster and practically invisible when they're not moving ON TOP of their advantage of being hard to spot already?

Is that balanced to you?

The armor nerf broke heavy tanks. That's all there is to it. There's no reason to play a heavy.

Does it bounce off my SU-85? I don't think so. There are many fixes to this problem, you probably bounce off Jagd Panzers and Panthers... Make Jagd Panzers cost as much as SU-100 to make it easier on Tigers, and increase the Tiger armor by 30mm to start, even a KV3 has more armor and I can hit those for 60% on a full critical hit with my AP rounds on my SU-85... So Tigers aren't safe from me. We also need a slight reduction in our armor and ammo and things will be easier...

[MrVic]

Well after screwing up and selling my 100% crew..  its still fun to play my KV-2 KV-3 the big thing to remember I think is even tho your a heavy tank its more about being durable not near invincible. Even in WW2 Tigers lost their ability to "storm" the enemy positions.  It was seen as near indestructible since it was such a great weapon on defense.  Armor to shrug off a lot of guns at the time of its design.  It was a field tank setup to long range control a battle.  I see soo many Tiger players head on charging enemies and TD's. This is a mistake usually, you advance cautiously.  Once you work up your tatics its not to bad. The SPG 2 shot hits is horrid tho.  You get spotted and your dead since you move to slow to escape.

Otherwise I think their really durable if played well and supported

Altho HE rounds need some adjusting for sure.

[Not_a_Mod]

If you know how to use your tank I don't see the problem.

You should take a look into how THE GAME built the tank and then base your strategy off of it. I know that some of the features of the heavy tanks may not be accurate but that really shouldn't affect anything other than the realistic side of the game. When I stay back and defend it isn't very hard to get 6 kills a game.

Even if you have a fast heavy you shouldn't rush. If you rush then don't be mad about being the target of everyone and being very susceptible to SPG fire.

My strategy is basically just get behind a rock or building to protect yourself from SPG and wait for other tanks to come to you. A high speed is only meant to avoid other tanks, not to rush in and kill them.

[ramp4ge]

Actually yes, I have bounced on an Su-85. Rear armor to add insult to injury.

The argument that Tiger should "Sit back and absorb damage while fighting at range" doesn't work either because the range Tiger can engage targets, they can also engage Tiger. It also gets penetrated by guns that should have no hope in hell of penetrating it from anything above 10 yards. Seriously.

And when it is hit, it loses subsystems faster then any tank I've ever played, to hits that don't even penetrate. 1 hit commonly takes out 2 or 3 subsystems and crew. So before I know it, my gun's gone, my turret's gone, my ammo's gone, my gunner's gone, loader's dead..Both tracks damage, engine at half power or dead..

So what I end up with after one or two relatively minor hits is a tank that can't move, can't turn it's turret and has a 3 minute reload and a 12k repair plus ammo. You can get 6 kills, but if your team loses you're still in the negative, if not just barely coming out even.

That's just amazing.

And then there's the fact that 1 out of 5 games, it'll catch fire and explode from the first hit it takes.

It needs to be fixed. The game "built" the tank one way, and then they took the armor away in an armor nerf that now basically leaves it without a purpose.

[@thisname]

Slight amour upgrade and stop the shot's bouncing off the lower tier tanks and sometimes equal tier bounces get silly as well 5+ shots bouncing.

[Salan]

I just switched to heavies from the tank destroyer line and I love my simple little KV.  I find a lot of people say the KV sucks in game, but hardly any ever play the tank correctly.  I play with friends, sometimes up to 30 of us in vent at a time, and we actually work together.  The KV supporting another heavy tank (magiccandybars king tiger, or lionels panther or any of the various prototypes we run with) the thing shines ... its just not a hammer to be thrown at a bunch of nails, and it dies if its not also supported.


that said I do have 1 gripe with the KV research tree.  There are three tank branches in the KV research, the SPG itself costing over 144k exp.. I will never hit elite status with this tank and will never be able to swap my piled up xp over to the KV3 through gold transfers, which bothers me because the KV3 is 1.4million, meaning I will make the xp requirements (22k) way quicker then the gold requirements.   Guess I'll have a 100% crew to build instead, but it would have been nice to have had all that time to dump xp into parts of the KV3.


in short, the KV should not be a branching spot for 3 different heavy tanks, and one of them should not cost 144k or we lose the ability to have the elite crew almost all other tanks get.

[MrVic]

ramp4ge, on 16 July 2010 - 04:45 AM, said:

Actually yes, I have bounced on an Su-85. Rear armor to add insult to injury.

The argument that Tiger should "Sit back and absorb damage while fighting at range" doesn't work either because the range Tiger can engage targets, they can also engage Tiger. It also gets penetrated by guns that should have no hope in hell of penetrating it from anything above 10 yards. Seriously.

Getting spotted is a team thing. It happens regardless if your in a T-46 or a Tiger  its just that your a priority target since your in one of the biggest tanks in each match.
This causes you to be a target priority.  Careful advances and Teams working with you not hiding behind you is the key to success for many heavies.

Also the HE rounds are the biggest bane right now to damage done and Module damage is starting to show it self as out of wack.  This is more then likely whats causing many of the early module hits I think.  I have been testing this with my KV-3  and its showing true.

[@gauge]

Team composition sucks with a tiger as well.  We are weighted way to heavily.  Look at these screenshots.

When I play my tiger I get a team full of noobs.  Most of them die before I even get out of spawn.  Then I am staring down the barrel of 10+ repairs + whatever ammo I can shoot off before they hunt me down.

Attached Files

•  shot_012.jpg   455.61K   964 downloads
•  shot_013.jpg   456.11K   834 downloads

[MagiCandyBar]

change from the tiger to the king tiger was like night and day for me. The biggest annoyance i had with the Tiger was almost every game my ammo rack and loader would be knocked out. For many games I had a crippling 30 second reload speed. It just seems like the sub-systems and crew get damaged a bit too easily on the Tiger.

The King Tiger is a beast of a tank though, just got the new turret on it and man it feels nice to finally have sloped armor.

[Not_a_Mod]

ramp4ge, on 16 July 2010 - 04:45 AM, said:

Actually yes, I have bounced on an Su-85. Rear armor to add insult to injury.

The argument that Tiger should "Sit back and absorb damage while fighting at range" doesn't work either because the range Tiger can engage targets, they can also engage Tiger. It also gets penetrated by guns that should have no hope in hell of penetrating it from anything above 10 yards. Seriously.

And when it is hit, it loses subsystems faster then any tank I've ever played, to hits that don't even penetrate. 1 hit commonly takes out 2 or 3 subsystems and crew. So before I know it, my gun's gone, my turret's gone, my ammo's gone, my gunner's gone, loader's dead..Both tracks damage, engine at half power or dead..

So what I end up with after one or two relatively minor hits is a tank that can't move, can't turn it's turret and has a 3 minute reload and a 12k repair plus ammo. You can get 6 kills, but if your team loses you're still in the negative, if not just barely coming out even.

That's just amazing.

And then there's the fact that 1 out of 5 games, it'll catch fire and explode from the first hit it takes.

It needs to be fixed. The game "built" the tank one way, and then they took the armor away in an armor nerf that now basically leaves it without a purpose.

Everything can see anything from the KV series before it sees them for the most part. You need to wait for them to shoot and then focus in and shoot on them. Your gun and crew should be good enough to where you can sustain one hit before killing the other tank. It doesn't matter if your tracks or engine is out because for the most part you shouldn't be relying too heavily on it.

Here's an example of how I play:
1. Find a hiding spot with only two ways to shoot me. (Usually front and back)
2. Angle myself at like a 45 degree angle in perspective to where enemy tanks will be attacking me.
3. Wait for them to come and get you.
4. If you have a scout you should try picking them off but only if they come straight at you or stop. (Saves ammo and increases accuracy)
5. If you're in a head to head just strafe around a rock or something until you're reloaded and then shoot them when you're locked on.

I just got 12 kills using this method. For the most part people don't all rush at once, which is good for you.

Also I know that it may seem stupid to get 5-10 kills a game and still lose but it happens a lot to even the best players. (My loss ratio is like 55% lol)

takudi, on 16 July 2010 - 04:47 AM, said:

I just switched to heavies from the tank destroyer line and I love my simple little KV. I find a lot of people say the KV sucks in game, but hardly any ever play the tank correctly. I play with friends, sometimes up to 30 of us in vent at a time, and we actually work together. The KV supporting another heavy tank (magiccandybars king tiger, or lionels panther or any of the various prototypes we run with) the thing shines ... its just not a hammer to be thrown at a bunch of nails, and it dies if its not also supported.


that said I do have 1 gripe with the KV research tree. There are three tank branches in the KV research, the SPG itself costing over 144k exp.. I will never hit elite status with this tank and will never be able to swap my piled up xp over to the KV3 through gold transfers, which bothers me because the KV3 is 1.4million, meaning I will make the xp requirements (22k) way quicker then the gold requirements. Guess I'll have a 100% crew to build instead, but it would have been nice to have had all that time to dump xp into parts of the KV3.


in short, the KV should not be a branching spot for 3 different heavy tanks, and one of them should not cost 144k or we lose the ability to have the elite crew almost all other tanks get.

I got a 100% crew with my KV, 1S, and IS. You should be saving all of your experience and converting it into free experience if you have left overs. (I usually use 50 gold every other day converting experience)

MrVic, on 16 July 2010 - 04:56 AM, said:

Getting spotted is a team thing. It happens regardless if your in a T-46 or a Tiger its just that your a priority target since your in one of the biggest tanks in each match.
This causes you to be a target priority. Careful advances and Teams working with you not hiding behind you is the key to success for many heavies.

Also the HE rounds are the biggest bane right now to damage done and Module damage is starting to show it self as out of wack. This is more then likely whats causing many of the early module hits I think. I have been testing this with my KV-3 and its showing true.

I really don't bother with HE rounds. I find that killing something in one or two shots is better than damaging it and it taking 4 shots to kill it. It allows for a larger chance of a miss as well as giving your opponent/opponent's team more time to kill you.

[ErwinRommel]

MagiCandyBar, on 16 July 2010 - 05:14 AM, said:

i had with the Tiger was almost every game my ammo rack and loader would be knocked out. For many games I had a crippling 30 second reload speed.

[ramp4ge]

That just inspired me to grind out the King Tiger.