925 replies to this topic

[Quineloe]

Hellifant24k, on 30 July 2010 - 01:00 PM, said:

This game isn't exactly a panzer sim so you have to find a balance between Sim and arcade , and in order to maintain at least a basic balance you cant fuck up tanks because of their historical fail :/

We don't really have that many tanks in the game so far that were historical fails. I think the M3 Stuart and the Churchill I are the only ones so far. The biggest failtanks of WWII were the French designs still using the aiming&loading commander and the Matilda I (A11). Are any of these going to make an appearance?

[Eide]

I don't play TDs. They're not my thing. I do encounter TDs a lot. I feel for those guys who do play em. I really do. They gameplay experience is something that for now I hope to avoid.

As things stand now TDs really have it badly gameplay wise. As long as they can work from range they are pretty damn great. That requires coordinated teamplay though with people who find targets. Teamplay isn't rewarded in the current game though. As such TD players are usually on their own.

So how does typical combat for a TD look like. Either the TD players rams the front of an enemy tank and keeps driving forward and wins. Or, the TD player isn't able to do that, gets his tracks blown off and losses. No skill involved, no skill to reward. Either on or the other. And I imagine it sucks badly if you're playing a TD.

The issue is twofold. On one side ramming (or even bumping into other tanks) is a much to powerful game mechanic. On the other hand teamwork isn't rewarded. These are two core issues that need reworking in the game. Personally I feel ramming needs much more serious consequences for tank and crew when it's used. It's needs to be something a player must REALLY think about twice before using it. The effect of that will be that TD players got more options to work their TD against other vehicles (and incidently would be good chance for SPGs too). Also scouting needs to become a more powerful mechanic. The current mechanics do reward lighting up an enemy tank, but not by much. If scouting tanks because an XP reward based on time you're lighting upo enemies that because a much more powerful mechanic which because much more rewarding.

That will also give TDs to work what they are good at vs this just being a case of who using the ramming mechanic best (or gets lcuky in the initial scrape).

I welcome of replies of course, keep it civil and to the point though and be open for constructive criticism (and I'll attempt to do the same )

[@donalmette]

You must notice that for Russian TD going head to head isn't as viable as for German ones due to thin armor. So for them, game is basically camping somewhere far behind the front line and hoping no one gets close.

[krazed]

this isn't far off actually. except that we get rammed a LOT (well i do anyway!) my deaths are split pretty evenly between getting rammed/trackshot by mediums and shot to deaht or SPGd to death.... very rarely do i go down in an actual shooting fight

i have a very hard time firing on distant targets due to connection lag and the visual skipping


the main two problems i'm having right now with TDs is ambushing.... don't get me wrong, getting into position and firing i have no problem with, thats the part i love about TDs.

It's the rain of HE SPG fire that follows before i have time to move, which almost always blows a track off, which is a death sentence


the second problem is team support, or lack there of.  i can't count how many times i've been killed by light tanks (hell even mediums!) after they either ram my track off, or ping it off with a single HE round.... they then park behind me and fire a shot or two into my rear so i go up in flames

[theMuhaha]

It isnt that bad as you point out here.. I play TD only and i love it, its not like we're helpless face2face

Jagdpanther eats Tiger face2face


In addition, we are not supposed to fight f2f.. we should stay hidden most of the time - and we're good in it

Our guns are better than yours and most of our armor has a sweet slope.

the only real pain for TD's are skilled light/medium tanks when you have no team support, if there are 2 vs you you're pretty much screwd but its not that bad, most of the time they come alone and after some time I manage to finally point my gun at them and onehit them to hell

The accuracy of most TD-Guns is more than satisfying too, i can hit the turret of a PzIV across half the map and in close combat i can choose which subsystem of you i want to kill.



Early tier TD's are useful subsystem Killers against heavys (Hetzer, Stug with 105/HE) and the ones after (jgpzIV,jagdpanther) are just deadly sneaky bastards that have no trouble killing everything below King Tiger



So far for german TD's, russian TD's seem to be a lot weaker IMO ... when theyre spotted they're dead. I agree they srsly need a buff (i know what i'm talkin about, a friend lend me his SU-152 poor thing, that)

[Overlord]

Hellifant24k, on 30 July 2010 - 08:29 AM, said:

Yeah even i WTF everytime a KV hits me with its 152mm. That thing is sure evil on close range.

EDIT: Quick question about my screen, is this a typo or for real because it cant be if its real^^

No, it's not a typo or bug. Though IS-7 does actually have less thick hull armor than IS-4, the armor slope of IS-7 is higher, that's why IS-7 is even more difficult to penetrate.

[Michi]

I agree with the OP for the most part, being in a Ferdinand shows these flaws a lot more then one would think as it has a very slow speed and turning ability, this makes it better most of the time to just find a corner to hide in near base, using the 200m frontal armor as a shield while you pick away at enemy armor.
As for teamwork, I didn't receive a lot of help when i was working my way up the tree, but, now that i am in the Ferdi, many times i hear people say "help the Ferdi!, or, I got your back!". That being said there are still games where i get left with no support and end the game with two med tanks ramming my side and just unloading while i sit unable to move, but it has gotten better as of late. To give an example, a friend and i play a lot on ventrillo together, he is in a vk3001p(i think, its one of the vk series), and he follows me around, always aiming for the tracks of enemy's that get too close to me, making it an easy shot for my fully upgraded Ferdinand, when we do this i don't think we have lost a game yet.
As far as buffs go, alittle buffing would be nice, but at the Ferdinand level, the only thing im biting at the chomp for is the jagdtiger

[krazed]

i stick with you most of the time when i see you michi

or put rounds into the base of your gun to try and knock it out....... lol

[@silver_falcon]

Overlord, on 30 July 2010 - 02:18 PM, said:

No, it's not a typo or bug. Though IS-7 does actually have less thick hull armor than IS-4, the armor slope of IS-7 is higher, that's why IS-7 is even more difficult to penetrate.

So the "armour up to" is actualy "effective equivalent of nonsloped armour"?

[rainierus]

I just love the smell of burning Leopards in the morning...http://forum.worldoftanks.com/public/style_emoticons/default/Smile_smile.gif or me..http://forum.worldoftanks.com/public/style_emoticons/default/Smile_amazed.gif


ahm is JagdTiger before or after Ferdinand????

@Michi and theMuhaha ahmm guys i just researched Ferdi tech tree.. ahmm do you have any advice or idea? or what you did? to get a 2.5m credit? how many hours is that? coz i can only make 500k in 5-8 hours of play non-stop with my JagdPanther on premium...

[Kifli]

i think td are really buged you cant see them and tey turn faster that you can run aroun them . Td destroers must be balanced alot .

[Overlord]

Silver_Falcon, on 30 July 2010 - 02:57 PM, said:

So the "armour up to" is actualy "effective equivalent of nonsloped armour"?

Nope, up to 350mm means that the thickest armor of IS-7, which is mantlet armor around the main gun, is 350mm, the rest is less thick.

[Troy_Polamalu]

i play with hetzer and all i can say is..god help me! it is too slow, too slow at turning, damage is too weak (i stand 0% chance if someone sees me..and due to lack of manuverability i cant hide fast enough). i dont know..they need to enchance damage, or rate of fire..something to compensate very VERY poor manuverability!

[Eide]

I don't really want to get into a discussion if TDs are good, bad or need buffs/nerfs/cookies. Just want to have a look at the quality of gameplay.

[Sakuzhi]

Believe you would be in the Topic for the Hetzer issue. Please see the Tank Destroyer section.

[Mr_Rivers]

Overlord, on 30 July 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

Nope, up to 350mm means that the thickest armor of IS-7, which is mantlet armor around the main gun, is 350mm, the rest is less thick.

So this means that is-7's have an inherent  disadvantage to artillery that the maus and the is-4 dont. Is this intended, or as CCP like to call things like this, a 'feature'?

[Envious]

Ok ghot my tiger yesterday no shortage of problems and just now a T-34 hit me on my front killed my gunner and did over 75% damage FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUU.

[Sakuzhi]

First hit ever on my tiger >Lost three Crew.

[Palora]

Yeah the hetzer is a piece of grief and tears at the moement, it may be a bit better when it doesn't have to fight stuff higher in tier then it (when/if they add tier split) but at the moment everything can kill it from the front.

[@eorthstapa]

I am just going to question... Why is there a tank destroyer discussion going on in the heavy tank thread?