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Tips on how to hide as VK2801


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taattis #21 Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

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Camo difference is quite small, pretty weird that bat and t62-a have better camo though. The problem is that sitting in a bush not firing means that you are not derping around!

Tazilon #22 Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:28 AM

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View PostJAFMANDADDY, on 10 January 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Given that 3 of you stand by the vk2801 so much is it possible for us to do some maths where we compare the camo value vs view range of

chaffee, t50-2, ELC, vk2801?

I know the camo values and the view ranges..I will see what I can find.

If you are properly hidden, camo values don't mean much when you are Passive.  You aren't relying on your camo value - you are relying on the bush to hide you.  

VIEW RANGE (best turret):

T-50-2: 370
VK-2801:  390
M24 Chaffee:  400

The M24 has slightly better View Range but it is hampered by a Top Speed of only 56 km/h.  Because of this, tt has trouble getting to some of the best Passive Spots unseen.  

The comparison masks the issue, however.  The point isn't that any of these tanks are better than the other at Passive Scouting.  The point is:  the VK-2801 Cougar is actually an outstanding Passive Scout.  While the unwashed continue to argue otherwise, I will happily be racking up in-game comments asking how the hell their team was spotted.

RegularLogic #23 Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:06 AM

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I have to agree that playing a passive scout doesn't fit my play style with this tank, but it can be played like this.... personally i don't see the point in being stationary with so little HP and Armour, when your primary strengths are speed and a camo value which doesn't drop through movement.

Sitting still also means less fun, and less opportunities for Orlik, but if you want to sit in a bush and play passive, that's your choice.... just not mine.

Lancasthor #24 Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

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View PostWhistlerFI, on 10 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

He was 62 m from me when our team killed him :) Still nobody spotted me.

This is exactly my point earlier. Having slightly worse camovalue with properly placed VK does not lose more than a second of hiding time if approached. Getting your fat tank to full 360' bush, is the more troublesome thing compared to Chaffs and ELCs.

Malinovka is the homefield for good scout (and artillery), if you dominate there .. even without shooting a single shell, you are doing your passive work right. Just know when it is proper time to change the role for more offensive behavior.

Tazilon #25 Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

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View PostRegularLogic, on 11 January 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

I have to agree that playing a passive scout doesn't fit my play style with this tank, but it can be played like this.... personally i don't see the point in being stationary with so little HP and Armour, when your primary strengths are speed and a camo value which doesn't drop through movement.

Sitting still also means less fun, and less opportunities for Orlik, but if you want to sit in a bush and play passive, that's your choice.... just not mine.

It is quite simple:  many times, sitting there lighting up other tanks for your teammates to shoot is the best way for you to help your team win.  There are definitely many times where your speed and firepower are what you need to use.  There are other times when your Stealth and View Range become your team's best weapon to employ.

Edited by Tazilon, 11 January 2013 - 10:20 AM.


xunderbird #26 Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:24 AM

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What I learned is, for a scout, survival is the important thing, the later the game, the greater your influence. Saying that, I die too often, I definitely have to work on my first scouting run or the bushes I choose. :|

RegularLogic #27 Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:13 AM

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View PostTazilon, on 11 January 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

It is quite simple:  many times, sitting there lighting up other tanks for your teammates to shoot is the best way for you to help your team win.
I completely disagree, sitting static in one location is something for a tank destroyer to do... not a light tank.

WhistlerFI #28 Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:37 AM

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View PostRegularLogic, on 13 January 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

I completely disagree, sitting static in one location is something for a tank destroyer to do... not a light tank.

Err... You don't seem to understand what Tazilon meant here. With VK (or some other proper scout tank) you go atleast some 50-100 m forward of other tanks. To light up the targets is duty of scouts. By this way spotter stays invisible and in optimum case also the shooters stay invisible. Main issue is to remain invisible = don't break your camo by shooting. And that surely requires pretty much patience. There are just too many times when juicy targets are in your sights and your gun finger just itching.

Of course for scout is important to have situational awarness, and passive scouting is not always good option. Also tactics should be changed during the course of game. Passive scouting in begining of game (depends on map) and changing to more active later on when situation requires so, is not bad tactics.

TBH I wonder your comment, dude you have over 14k of games played, and this kind of comment...

Tazilon #29 Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

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View PostRegularLogic, on 13 January 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

I completely disagree, sitting static in one location is something for a tank destroyer to do... not a light tank.

Did you watch the video I posted?   Exactly how could you have impacted the battle more by moving around?

RegularLogic #30 Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:13 AM

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View PostWhistlerFI, on 13 January 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Err... You don't seem to understand what Tazilon meant here.
TBH I wonder your comment, dude you have over 14k of games played, and this kind of comment...

I understood perfectly. 14k games, that's what, twice yours? Perhaps you DO know better, I'll just be quiet then.

View PostTazilon, on 13 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Did you watch the video I posted?   Exactly how could you have impacted the battle more by moving around?
By exploiting the immobility of their team. I see a T95 on the opposite side, it's a fair bet he's not going to move from the building line to go to the hill... we have 3 mediums with decent speed (Lorraine, M46, T20), taxi them to the hill before the enemy heavies move towards there and fight on that location. Provide scouting to the top, fall back and redeploy were needed or in defense (unlikely, seeing as a T30 and JT were holding spawn locations)

The game you showed was won by the heavies on the top section of the map achieving a break-through against the enemy team. Not by sitting at the bottom of the map in a bush, lighting up enemies what would have comfortably sat there the entire game.

Edited by RegularLogic, 14 January 2013 - 06:13 AM.


Lancasthor #31 Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

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View PostRegularLogic, on 13 January 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

I completely disagree, sitting static in one location is something for a tank destroyer to do... not a light tank.

Good scouting requires getting close as possible .. while staying hidden and minimizing risks.
It does not take very many experienced barrels aiming at your direction to stop active scouting 2801 what is attempting some more or less heroic manoeuver with bad timing.
Sometimes team contribution means and demmands sitting still in a comfy spotting bush... Even for minute or two until a nice window of opportunity opens.

Do notice that some players are more careful than others even if their long term contribution remains equal. Surviving longer can make you the key player of match and can easily be valuable as arty-crippling strike middlegame or HEAT-spamming heroics on some tier X  in close combat.

telamiina #32 Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:19 PM

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Rarely I hide my Vk2801.
I prefer moving and shooting,ofcourse I hide but not for scouting. I rain HE and HEAT to my enemys, if I stay hidden,well its even better.

I do spot enemy,but I dont play passive as my gun is so potential damage maker even with HE ammo.

Tazilon #33 Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:27 PM

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View PostRegularLogic, on 14 January 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

I understood perfectly. 14k games, that's what, twice yours? Perhaps you DO know better, I'll just be quiet then.


By exploiting the immobility of their team. I see a T95 on the opposite side, it's a fair bet he's not going to move from the building line to go to the hill... we have 3 mediums with decent speed (Lorraine, M46, T20), taxi them to the hill before the enemy heavies move towards there and fight on that location. Provide scouting to the top, fall back and redeploy were needed or in defense (unlikely, seeing as a T30 and JT were holding spawn locations)

The game you showed was won by the heavies on the top section of the map achieving a break-through against the enemy team. Not by sitting at the bottom of the map in a bush, lighting up enemies what would have comfortably sat there the entire game.

Do you understand many of the enemy tanks arrived at the top of the Hill already hurt because of the spot down below, thus making it easy for our tanks to win the fight there?  

There are many times active scouting methods ARE the best way to go.  But you need to understand there are many times where passive scouting methods are the way to go.  Limiting your tricks to half those available in the bag diminishes your effectiveness to your team.

Edited by Tazilon, 14 January 2013 - 04:28 PM.


Cobra6 #34 Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:57 PM

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-If you shoot you lose camo
-Stand slightly behind bushes when static, not in them
-Try to cover your sides with other bushes/objects
-never shoot
-NEVER SHOOT (I can't stress this enough, no matter how close they are, don't shoot).

When they are too close you won't live anyway, but shooting spoils the lucky chance they'll get killed before they reach you by friendlies.

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IsoA #35 Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

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Never shoot -> not much xp.

But yeah, that is how you stay hidden. It's just that the potential of VK is pretty much wasted if the VK is not derping as much as possible.

Cobra6 #36 Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:13 PM

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View PostIsoA, on 16 January 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Never shoot -> not much xp.

But yeah, that is how you stay hidden. It's just that the potential of VK is pretty much wasted if the VK is not derping as much as possible.

Untrue, spotting damage yields enough XP. If you spot enemies for your allies to shoot at you get part of their XP.

It's just a matter of choosing wether to actively scout or passively.

Usually in "on tier"  matches I do active (offensive) scouting but when I'm bottom of the list I switch to passive scouting.

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Arkhell #37 Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:29 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 16 January 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Untrue, spotting damage yields enough XP. If you spot enemies for your allies to shoot at you get part of their XP.

It's just a matter of choosing wether to actively scout or passively.

Usually in "on tier"  matches I do active (offensive) scouting but when I'm bottom of the list I switch to passive scouting.

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well the last statement isn't actually really true either... when we're platooned with 3 scout tanks we actually do go hunting higher tiers  :Smile_trollface-3:

Cobra6 #38 Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:09 PM

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View PostArkhell, on 16 January 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

well the last statement isn't actually really true either... when we're platooned with 3 scout tanks we actually do go hunting higher tiers  :Smile_trollface-3:

True, but that is mainly because we engage the same tanks at the same tip tripling the damage output and in a way functioning as an "on tier tank", at least I know I can trust you guys to do your job properly   :Smile_trollface-3:

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IsoA #39 Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 16 January 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Untrue, spotting damage yields enough XP.
Cobra 6

Enough xp? It gets you some xp, but the best xp is gotten by damaging higher tier tanks yourself.

Tazilon #40 Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 16 January 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

-If you shoot you lose camo
-Stand slightly behind bushes when static, not in them
-Try to cover your sides with other bushes/objects
-never shoot
-NEVER SHOOT (I can't stress this enough, no matter how close they are, don't shoot).

When they are too close you won't live anyway, but shooting spoils the lucky chance they'll get killed before they reach you by friendlies.

Cobra 6

Depends on where you are and where the enemy is.  I have many Passive Spots I use where shooting is fine because the targets I see are so far away.




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