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The end of civilisation?


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Silentstalker #1 Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:01 PM

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Just a thought...

Have you taken notice how obsessed people have become with the end of the civilisation in the last decade? We live in times of wonders of technology, things that would seem downright miraculous to our ancestors. We do live in the best age the human race has yet archieved. Yet, for all our archievements, people seem to think it won't last. Just look at the art: how many movies dealing with some sort of apocalypse, or showing some kind of dystopian future came out recently? Zombies, volcanoes, aliens, evil corporations... you name it. Same goes for the books, same goes for the Mayan calendar, it was the same with Nostradamus and Y2K.

Why?

Ronineter #2 Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:13 PM

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Because fallout, zombies, aliens and final having permission to kill all those idiots on the internet is awesome.

CuddlyPanda #3 Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

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People have always feared and expected the "End Times". People that lived in the Middle Ages actually lived in a sort of "End Age" for them, while they expected Final Judgment. Now with so much media its much easier to spread the beginning of the end for all humanity. Also having 7 billion people its also easier to come up with wild "End Times" and apocalypse ideas, not to mention its easier to find followers of sort. People are still too small a being in the grand scheme of the universe to poses the knowledge when their end will come. I don't pay that much attention to these ideas and theories. My motto is that life must be lived in happiness and joy, not eternally fearing when your end will come.

BravelyRanAway #4 Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

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It's because people love stories and if real stories aren't happening they create new one's to talk about.

handgranaat #5 Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:25 PM

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I can only see one problem to humanity and thats overpopulation,we just cant keep this up on this rate.
Sooner or later shit will hit the fan.

Grolim #6 Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

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The phenomena is not new. Just look at what happened when Halleys comet passes. There where some concern that Earth would pass through the tail of the comet and it was supposedly poisenous. The end is near! We will all perish! etc
I think we are facinated by "the last time" and some people focus on risks "don't take the car! you will die!".

Silentstalker #7 Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:58 PM

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View PostGrolim, on 13 January 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

The phenomena is not new. Just look at what happened when Halleys comet passes.

That is true. However, considering that happened 100 years ago and people really believed there is gas in the comet's tail (or something like that, wasn't it?), I thought we'd be more advanced by now than to believe zombies will suddenly rise, or everything starts exploding because planets align the wrong way...

Danger_UXB #8 Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

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View PostSilentstalker, on 13 January 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Just a thought...

Have you taken notice how obsessed people have become with the end of the civilisation in the last decade? We live in times of wonders of technology, things that would seem downright miraculous to our ancestors. We do live in the best age the human race has yet archieved. Yet, for all our archievements, people seem to think it won't last. Just look at the art: how many movies dealing with some sort of apocalypse, or showing some kind of dystopian future came out recently? Zombies, volcanoes, aliens, evil corporations... you name it. Same goes for the books, same goes for the Mayan calendar, it was the same with Nostradamus and Y2K.

Why?
Ive looked into this for mabye 8yrs years(corporations,NWO,Zionism,etc)And believe me its all so true...Its just a shame id go through 20 keyboards explaining the facts to you but for any type of proof go look into United Nations

documents 'AGENDA 21' And also the 'Global Bio-Diversity programme' which 100+ countries signed onto in Helsinki mabye 7 yrs ago..Believe me this Global debt/Reccession is no accident..But anyway i could go on forever

..As for the 21/12/12(the end of the Mayan calender 13 bactoun,End of the chinese .I chi calender of 6k yrs,) (And lots more!!)...You see these ancients used to work to the stars and there cycles and planetary movements

and all ancient calenders and writings(Nostro included) where all fixated on this date because after a 3600 yr cycle we actually moved into the age of aquarius on this date..And accordingly people/New agers etc

jumped on the bandwagon thinking the world is ending lol but only based on what they know.. but thats only cos of all the hype...Im sorry i could go on forever..Had to say this but if ever you would like a discussion

on these subjects please give me a shout and ill try my best lol.

Robbie

Edited by Danger_UXB, 13 January 2013 - 05:34 PM.


Hofwegen_1 #9 Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:16 PM

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First life on earth was a survival of the fittest (or in some cases luckiest).

Then we arrived and it became survival of the smartest (or visa versa).

The only(?) species who seem to have some sort of self-awareness and know that they are going to die for sure are we.
And we are afraid of this! And we are not smart enough to see a solution so we start doomthinking (thats a free translation out of Dutch).
If we are really smart we relay on our technology and if this doesn't work and earth will be to crowded we will see diseases, natural disasters and maybe even a WW3.

Last thing would be good for WG! Another violent wargame based on history

World goes on without us. Another smarter/fitter specie will take the upper level and f**ks it up. As it always has been.

OldIronsides #10 Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:49 AM

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View PostHofwegen_1, on 13 January 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

First life on earth was a survival of the fittest (or in some cases luckiest).

Then we arrived and it became survival of the smartest (or visa versa).

Being smart is the human way to adapt ("to fit"), so we really fit in the "survival of the fittest" (pun not intended).

@handgranaat:

We just have to make sure all of the world reaches a modest level of wealth. In all societies where wealth grows the birth rate shrinks ;-) (too bad that economic growth in a globalised economy needs poor or "less developed" countries...)

@SilentStalker:

Science and knowledge can't replace myth and fantasy, at least not completely (I'd be glad if it would, at least in any decision concerning the interests of all). On the other hand new knowledge of course can inspire myth and fantasy. What about that larva of some kind of insect (or was it some fungus spore? Don't remember exactly) that grows in the body of some other host insect and actually starts controlling its brain? Zombie-Brainsuckers from Outer Space, anyone? ;-)

I guess that the human brain isn't that well equipped to deal with the complexity of our modern world. All these abstract things make the brain create abstract explanations to cope with it all (see conspiracy theorists) or we seek refuge in the simpleness of myths.

Shegzor #11 Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:51 PM

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I blame History Channel, mostly the "Ancient Aliens" series. Most of their shows are biased in some way and try to sell ramblings of demented people as scientific fact.

Silentstalker #12 Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

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View PostShegzor, on 14 January 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I blame History Channel, mostly the "Ancient Aliens" series. Most of their shows are biased in some way and try to sell ramblings of demented people as scientific fact.

I agree. All sorts of weird pseudoscience bullshit, that would be sort of "moderated" by the society even 20 years ago (for example by not being allowed to be printed in serious scientific magazines) can now be made to look "realistic" on the internet and it doesn't even take that much effort.

View PostOldIronsides, on 14 January 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

Being smart is the human way to adapt ("to fit"), so we really fit in the "survival of the fittest" (pun not intended).

@handgranaat:

We just have to make sure all of the world reaches a modest level of wealth. In all societies where wealth grows the birth rate shrinks ;-) (too bad that economic growth in a globalised economy needs poor or "less developed" countries...)

Actually, I think it's the other way around. One of the problems of modern (western) society is that everyone thinks everyone in the world can be happy, fed, healthy and entertained. That is not true.

A few months back, I've read an article about some child being brought here (meaning Czech Republic) from Somalia to be treated with some heart condition as a part of some sort of medical aid or whatnot. The child couldn't read, write, had no education and absolutely no hope of getting a "better life" in Somalia. Yet the western society thought it's a great idea to spend hundreds of thousands of Euro on a complicated operation. Made me think of my grandparents, who died of cancer a long time ago, because despite working their whole life as farmers, they couldn't afford the treatment in Prague and the local hospital was sort of medieval (it was a bit more complicated than that but that's basically it).

Everyone can't be happy and everyone can't survive, so we really have to start prioritising our own citizens and if someone from another continent doesn't have enough food to feed his or her family, well... it's not our problem, is it (although "compassionate" people are completely free to donate as much of their personal wealth as they want).

sheep6665 #13 Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

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View PostSilentstalker, on 14 January 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Everyone can't be happy and everyone can't survive, so we really have to start prioritising our own citizens and if someone from another continent doesn't have enough food to feed his or her family, well... it's not our problem, is it (although "compassionate" people are completely free to donate as much of their personal wealth as they want).
You're not right, at least at the "food" thing.
Obesity is a common problem in "western world". Of course it's the worst in the US - 51% of people are obese there.
Why it is like that?
Our food is unhealthy(as hell), AND* we eat too much for our needs.
On the other hand, there are parts of the world that are starving, not exclusively because of "laziness"(like our political right wants us to think), it's a combo of dictatorships, wars, political instability and ill economy, caused by various factors, from slave trade trough colonisation to cold war era political games.
Back to the topic - we've got too much and it's causing various problems, they've got not enough and it's causing other problems, so the way to reduce both of these issues is quite obvious.
Of course it's just theory, because it's hard to make it work(we'd have to change the way in which we produce food - that mean - we would have to help Africa/Asia/whenever feed themselves, by sending various engineers and stuff, and reduce the production in "western world", because we are able to feed them now, but with progressive degradation of soil we will have problem with it in a few decades).

*To make it clear, if we'd be talking about logic I'd use "or", but some people are mixing it up with "else" so I've used little less accurate "and" connective, which is true for this certain problem, but there is an option where some people are eating healthy food and still be obese and vice versa.

Silentstalker #14 Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:43 PM

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View Postsheep6665, on 14 January 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

You're not right, at least at the "food" thing.
Obesity is a common problem in "western world". Of course it's the worst in the US - 51% of people are obese there.
Why it is like that?
Our food is unhealthy(as hell), AND* we eat too much for our needs.

So? We do, because we can. It's our lives, our health, but the point is - we (our ancestors) built such a society that produces so much it allows us to. Other "civilisations" didn't. So?

"A combo of dictators, wars...." - mate, the dictators aren't aliens or foreigners, they didn't drop out of the sky. They came to power because the people allowed them to. A government is always the reflection of the people. We had dictators here in Europe too, even some post-war ones. People got rid of them. Either way, the question stands: why should we help anyone, when our own people require aid? Especially when any help is counterproductive - you send them food, they only learn to sit on their ass begging us for more - and procreate. So few years after that, there aren't 10 people to feed, but 50.

Shegzor #15 Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

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View PostSilentstalker, on 14 January 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

So? We do, because we can. It's our lives, our health, but the point is - we (our ancestors) built such a society that produces so much it allows us to. Other "civilisations" didn't. So?

"A combo of dictators, wars...." - mate, the dictators aren't aliens or foreigners, they didn't drop out of the sky. They came to power because the people allowed them to. A government is always the reflection of the people. We had dictators here in Europe too, even some post-war ones. People got rid of them. Either way, the question stands: why should we help anyone, when our own people require aid? Especially when any help is counterproductive - you send them food, they only learn to sit on their ass begging us for more - and procreate. So few years after that, there aren't 10 people to feed, but 50.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime."

I mostly agree with what Silentstalker says. It is immoral to prioritize people in other countries over your own. We have states and counties and whatnot to offer us protection and resources that we couldn't get ourselves - I shouldn't be going to work to produce money for some other goverment, when our own country is in debt. Only when you have actual surplus can you even look at others.
However, I do believe that Africa, Asia and South America situations need to be handled - at some point, when we are able, and not without their own cooperation. The world needs to get globalized if we're ever to get off this rock :) But it needs to be handled properly, not the way it is now.

I hope I didn't say something incredibly stupid there - if I did, blame it on english not being my native language :P

Silentstalker #16 Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:53 PM

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View PostShegzor, on 14 January 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime."

I mostly agree with what Silentstalker says. It is immoral to prioritize people in other countries over your own. We have states and counties and whatnot to offer us protection and resources that we couldn't get ourselves - I shouldn't be going to work to produce money for some other goverment, when our own country is in debt. Only when you have actual surplus can you even look at others.
However, I do believe that Africa, Asia and South America situations need to be handled - at some point, when we are able, and not without their own cooperation. The world needs to get globalized if we're ever to get off this rock :) But it needs to be handled properly, not the way it is now.

I hope I didn't say something incredibly stupid there - if I did, blame it on english not being my native language :P

No, not stupid. Just very, very optimistic. I just believe that people are very ugly inside. It's the way we are. People aren't grateful for help - maybe in the beginning, but if you help for a while, they take it for granted and later they even evolve a sense of entitlement. That's what happened in 3rd world anyway. Silly popstars going over then and telling them "it's not your fault, the evil Europeans and Americans did this to you and now they have to feed you", which is of course a complete nonsense. But - they believe that. And as long as there are Bonos and Madonnas running around telling them these lies, nothing will change.

Shegzor #17 Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:09 AM

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View PostSilentstalker, on 14 January 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

No, not stupid. Just very, very optimistic. I just believe that people are very ugly inside. It's the way we are. People aren't grateful for help - maybe in the beginning, but if you help for a while, they take it for granted and later they even evolve a sense of entitlement. That's what happened in 3rd world anyway. Silly popstars going over then and telling them "it's not your fault, the evil Europeans and Americans did this to you and now they have to feed you", which is of course a complete nonsense. But - they believe that. And as long as there are Bonos and Madonnas running around telling them these lies, nothing will change.

That I totally agree with, in most cases anyway. Ignorant celebrities are making the problems worse.

sheep6665 #18 Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:46 PM

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View PostSilentstalker, on 14 January 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

So? We do, because we can. It's our lives, our health, but the point is - we (our ancestors) built such a society that produces so much it allows us to. Other "civilisations" didn't. So?

Then why don't we try to teach them do it?
We'd have spare resources and could focus on quality instead of quantity, so it'll be win=win situation.

View PostSilentstalker, on 14 January 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

"A combo of dictators, wars...." - mate, the dictators aren't aliens or foreigners, they didn't drop out of the sky. They came to power because the people allowed them to. A government is always the reflection of the people. We had dictators here in Europe too, even some post-war ones. People got rid of them. Either way, the question stands: why should we help anyone, when our own people require aid? Especially when any help is counterproductive - you send them food, they only learn to sit on their ass begging us for more - and procreate. So few years after that, there aren't 10 people to feed, but 50.
As for sending food - I've stated that we should help them to feed themselves, not feed them, imo. it is productive.
As for dictators, you're Czech or something, so you know how much choice most Eastern Europeans had when we we're "allowing" Stalin to put his satellites as ours leaders.
Political situation in 3rd world is a result of "great powers game", we've got a good sample of it - during the revolution in Egypt US government was more likely to help Mubarak than to help protesters, the reason was simple - they were afraid that it'll turn in the same way as in Iran/Persia in 1979(democratic factions couldn't deal with Ayatollah's authority, and the country turned into theocracy which was ideologically oriented to go to war with Iraq, and if succeeded - with main US ally in the region - Israel), the result was similar though Egyptians don't look like they're going to fall into same sh*t without fight(recent protests). Imo. it's not like they're not trying to get rid of them. The problem is, Easter Europe was supported by west, because they wanted to make Warsaw Pact weaker, in 3rd world they wan't the most stable governments possible, so they're going to support dictators silently and blow one or two of them(Gaddafi) to make their public opinion pleased.

Economically it's a mutual fault, the Africans were setting their economy for slave trade, and they caused massive depopulation, resulting in "retardation" of it(West Africa seemed to develop fairly well till the XV-XVI century), colonisation deepened that effect, later wars made it even worse.

BlakesBully #19 Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

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I think the current interest/fascination in apocalypses is one of the effects of 9/11 2001.

The happenings of this one day had so great an influence on a great many people, because ot showed them that their little peaceful dreamworld is vulnerable.
Anytime, anywhere something very terrible can happen in this post 9/11 world.

Popular culture used this latent fear of many people - while playing with the ubiquitous human morbid fascination - to actually do entertainment.
Thats why from this point on TV-series, movies, books, comics and whatever else started popping up apocalyptic or "end of the civilization" stories.

If we take a look back at the time before 2001, we see the nineties. A decade full of joyful carefreeness (remember those girlie bands.. ugh..).
The nineties began with the end of the cold war, which meant an end to the steady threat of nuclear annihilation. People celebrated their new freedom of fear and dark visions of the future were far less important to nineties popular culture.

Edited by BlakesBully, 15 January 2013 - 07:42 PM.


Shegzor #20 Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:57 AM

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View PostBlakesBully, on 15 January 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

I think the current interest/fascination in apocalypses is one of the effects of 9/11 2001.

The happenings of this one day had so great an influence on a great many people, because ot showed them that their little peaceful dreamworld is vulnerable.
Anytime, anywhere something very terrible can happen in this post 9/11 world.

Popular culture used this latent fear of many people - while playing with the ubiquitous human morbid fascination - to actually do entertainment.
Thats why from this point on TV-series, movies, books, comics and whatever else started popping up apocalyptic or "end of the civilization" stories.

If we take a look back at the time before 2001, we see the nineties. A decade full of joyful carefreeness (remember those girlie bands.. ugh..).
The nineties began with the end of the cold war, which meant an end to the steady threat of nuclear annihilation. People celebrated their new freedom of fear and dark visions of the future were far less important to nineties popular culture.

What you said is probably a big part of the reason. Still, there were some post-apocalyptic franchises before that (Mad Max anyone?)




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