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Scorpion Tank protoypes

Scorpion Light Tank

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Heinkle #1 Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

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I apologise if you guys are getting annoyed by me spamming the forums with these PDFs, but I found a 70s e-book on the Scorpion tank that seems to contain some nice prototype vehicles that eventually developed into the Scorpion tank. The book is here:

https://docs.google....2FLQkZ5QXc/edit

If WG are stuggling to give the British tree some high-tier scouts, then this is the sort of info they should use. Afterall, the concept models here are no different to those used to create the US T71:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Just some food for thought really.

dtham #2 Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:47 PM

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The one with 120 mm recoilless gun would have been awesome!! Ultimate troll tank!

Edited by dtham, 23 January 2013 - 02:07 PM.


Heinkle #3 Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

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View Postdtham, on 23 January 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

The one with 120 mm recoilles gun would have been awesome!! Ultimate troll tank!

haha, it would have to be like a tier 9 light tank

dtham #4 Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:07 PM

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View PostHeinkle, on 23 January 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

haha, it would have to be like a tier 9 light tank

Why not with 65 kmph top speed, 3000 dpm and 420 m viewrange? :Smile_trollface-3:

Conte_Vincero #5 Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

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With the 75mm, the scorpion prototype could be a high tier sucessor to the T-50, An ultimate scout tank, with the speed and manoeverability to avoid fire, but lacking firepower for dealing with anything except arty

ApocalypseSquad #6 Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:02 PM

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Interesting, please keep 'em coming....

Listy #7 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:18 AM

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View PostConte_Vincero, on 23 January 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

With the 75mm, the scorpion prototype could be a high tier sucessor to the T-50, An ultimate scout tank, with the speed and manoeverability to avoid fire, but lacking firepower for dealing with anything except arty

Pretty sure you could get two options in. After all a Scorpion with a new turret is a Scimitar. And a Scimitar is capable of giving a M24 a run for its money. So weapon wise you'd have two options.
1: 76mm HESH, HE, AP, sort of a more fragile, faster, smaller derp VK2801
2: 30mm RARDEN: APSE, APDS, HE. Like a T-50 but with less armour but more Whang to its gun.

"30mm RARDEN?" I hear you cry "What kind of madness is this?"

Well There are reports (that others have mentioned independently of me) that a Soviet 30mm Knocked out a T-72 in Yugoslavia. Now I've never been able to confirm the details on this (To be honest, I've never really looked), so it may well rate as urban legend.
Next the Damge will be too low for its tier opponents? Well the standard round APSE, penetrates then squirst White Phosphorus all over the place. If thats not worthy of a damage boost to its calibre then I don't know what is. It'd also be the only high tier Auto-cannon.

Eruantien_Aduialdraug #8 Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:09 PM

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View PostListy, on 26 January 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Pretty sure you could get two options in. After all a Scorpion with a new turret is a Scimitar. And a Scimitar is capable of giving a M24 a run for its money. So weapon wise you'd have two options.
1: 76mm HESH, HE, AP, sort of a more fragile, faster, smaller derp VK2801
2: 30mm RARDEN: APSE, APDS, HE. Like a T-50 but with less armour but more Whang to its gun.

Isn't the hull different on the Scimitar? I know that if you put a Fox turret and the RARDEN on a Scorpion and you get a Sabre, but I thought the Scimitar had a modified hull.

Anyway, You could argue having the 90mm Cockerill Mk3 M-A1 to make the Scorpion 2 or Scorpion 90... or whatever you want to call it...

Kyphe #9 Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:48 AM

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View PostEruantien_Aduialdraug, on 26 January 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:



Isn't the hull different on the Scimitar? I know that if you put a Fox turret and the RARDEN on a Scorpion and you get a Sabre, but I thought the Scimitar had a modified hull.

Anyway, You could argue having the 90mm Cockerill Mk3 M-A1 to make the Scorpion 2 or Scorpion 90... or whatever you want to call it...

There are some minor differences but my brother who commanded a scimitar swears they are the same as modifications to the scimitar hull were also carried out on serving scorpions and quite possibly scorpions were salvaged for spares for the scimitar fleet once it was decommissioned.

ofc all the hulls are fooked now, they are all falling apart with stress fractures do to being overloaded with add on armor and being used in some quite hostile places with relativity simple and unforgiving suspension.

Apparently trying to keep up with warriors in Iraq off road was both futile and back breaking.

Listy #10 Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:52 AM

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View PostEruantien_Aduialdraug, on 26 January 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Isn't the hull different on the Scimitar? I know that if you put a Fox turret and the RARDEN on a Scorpion and you get a Sabre, but I thought the Scimitar had a modified hull.

Anyway, You could argue having the 90mm Cockerill Mk3 M-A1 to make the Scorpion 2 or Scorpion 90... or whatever you want to call it...

Oh yeah... of course the export version might be a bit too late in the game.

Thought it was pretty much an identical hull with a new turret? Guess we should go ask Chally.

Listy #11 Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:56 AM

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View PostKyphe, on 27 January 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

There are some minor differences but my brother who commanded a scimitar swears they are the same as modifications to the scimitar hull were also carried out on serving scorpions and quite possibly scorpions were salvaged for spares for the scimitar fleet once it was decommissioned.

ofc all the hulls are fooked now, they are all falling apart with stress fractures do to being overloaded with add on armor and being used in some quite hostile places with relativity simple and unforgiving suspension.

Apparently trying to keep up with warriors in Iraq off road was both futile and back breaking.

That's why we now have the Scimitar 2. Its a new build Spartan chassis, with a Scimitar turret and a spoiler!
Go Chavalry!
:Smile_veryhappy:

The_Challenger #12 Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:40 AM

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View PostListy, on 27 January 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Oh yeah... of course the export version might be a bit too late in the game.

Thought it was pretty much an identical hull with a new turret? Guess we should go ask Chally.

Hull basically the same, few tweaks to the running gear.

SABRE- Refurbished Scorpion hull with the Fox turret, turret rings were totally different so adaptors had to be constructed,

Fox, bloody awful, so top heavy was prone to toppling, (from bitter experience)  :Smile_Default:

Or Salamander with the 125mm Gun ! lol

        

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  • Attached File   salamander.jpg   53.14K


Listy #13 Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

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View PostThe_Challenger, on 27 January 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Fox, bloody awful, so top heavy was prone to toppling, (from bitter experience)  :Smile_Default:

Can't be as bad as the Vixen! One of those ones were you have to wonder if the designer had actually ever met a real live person.

To give yourself the authentic Vixen experience do the following.
Get your chair and attach it to the wall so it can't move. (the bucket seat was actually part of the hull).
Now place your legs at 45 degrees to one side (remembering ones arrse and upper thighs are held in place by the bucket seat pointing forwards).
Finally mount your Computer 45 Degree's to the other side, right where your elbow is.
Finally mount a large metal triangle from the roof. It should reach down to about nose level, and be right were your head would "Naturally" be. This is your periscope. So if you have your head on the headrest you can't see out of the periscope. If you want to use your computer you have to phase your head through the periscope and sit with your face on your elbow.

Good eh! The vixen sure looks nice from outside, but god help you if you were a Rad op or Navigator in one. The above experience comes from sitting still in a garage after changing its wheels.

Edited by Listy, 27 January 2013 - 10:58 AM.


The_Challenger #14 Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:58 AM

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View PostThe_Challenger, on 27 January 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hull basically the same, few tweaks to the running gear.

SABRE- Refurbished Scorpion hull with the Fox turret, turret rings were totally different so adaptors had to be constructed,

Fox, bloody awful, so top heavy was prone to toppling, (from bitter experience)  :Smile_Default:

Or Salamander with the 125mm Gun ! lol

Attachmentsalamander.jpg


Ps- Great PDF Heinkel :Smile_Default:

The_Challenger #15 Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

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View PostListy, on 27 January 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Can't be as bad as the Vixen! One of those ones were you have to wonder if the designer had actually ever met a real live person.

To give yourself the authentic Vixen experience do the following.
Get your chair and attach it to the wall so it can't move. (the bucket seat was actually part of the hull).
Now place your legs at 45 degrees to one side (remembering ones arrse and upper thighs are held in place by the bucket seat pointing forwards).
Finally mount your Computer 45 Degree's to the other side, right where your elbow is.
Finally mount a large metal triangle from the roof. It should reach down to about nose level, and be right were your head would "Naturally" be. This is your periscope. So if you have your head on the headrest you can't see out of the periscope. If you want to use your computer you have to phase your head through the periscope and sit with your face on your elbow.

Good eh! The vixen sure looks nice from outside, but god help you if you were a Rad op or Navigator in one. The above experience comes from sitting still in a garage after changing its wheels.


Hahah sounds great mate, always heard about the number of accidents :Smile_mellow:

Heinkle #16 Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:19 AM

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View PostListy, on 27 January 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

That's why we now have the Scimitar 2. Its a new build Spartan chassis, with a Scimitar turret and a spoiler!
Go Chavalry!
:Smile_veryhappy:

British Forces News feature on Scimitar 2 from November 2011

Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZeVbCPA6jc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Heinkle #17 Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:25 AM

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View PostThe_Challenger, on 27 January 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Ps- Great PDF Heinkel :Smile_Default:

Thanks very much. Check the medium tank section: I have started a thread that features all of the British tank PDFs I could find.

The_Challenger #18 Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:41 AM

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View PostHeinkle, on 27 January 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Thanks very much. Check the medium tank section: I have started a thread that features all of the British tank PDFs I could find.

Will do mate, apologies not visted yet, just not enough hours in the day to get round all the threads  :Smile_Default:

Eruantien_Aduialdraug #19 Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:46 PM

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View PostThe_Challenger, on 27 January 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hull basically the same, few tweaks to the running gear.

SABRE- Refurbished Scorpion hull with the Fox turret, turret rings were totally different so adaptors had to be constructed,

Fox, bloody awful, so top heavy was prone to toppling, (from bitter experience)  :Smile_Default:

Or Salamander with the 125mm Gun ! lol

Attachmentsalamander.jpg
Thanks chief, never been clear on all the differences between the Alvis AFVs.

Good_Cat #20 Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:46 PM

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View PostListy, on 26 January 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Pretty sure you could get two options in. After all a Scorpion with a new turret is a Scimitar. And a Scimitar is capable of giving a M24 a run for its money. So weapon wise you'd have two options.
1: 76mm HESH, HE, AP, sort of a more fragile, faster, smaller derp VK2801
2: 30mm RARDEN: APSE, APDS, HE. Like a T-50 but with less armour but more Whang to its gun.

"30mm RARDEN?" I hear you cry "What kind of madness is this?"

Well There are reports (that others have mentioned independently of me) that a Soviet 30mm Knocked out a T-72 in Yugoslavia. Now I've never been able to confirm the details on this (To be honest, I've never really looked), so it may well rate as urban legend.
Next the Damge will be too low for its tier opponents? Well the standard round APSE, penetrates then squirst White Phosphorus all over the place. If thats not worthy of a damage boost to its calibre then I don't know what is. It'd also be the only high tier Auto-cannon.

APSE Armour Piercing Secondary Effect doesn't contain white phosphorus, if i remember right its contains a smoke/flare compound to incapacitate the crew on penetration.
Using white phos would be a bit harsh, acridic toxic fumes and a metallic powder that burns on contact with the oxygen in the air at 3000c.

30mm Rarden has 3 operational rounds APDS, APSE and HE rounds plus the practice HE PRACtice and APDS reduced range.




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