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XVM: its flaws and pitfalls


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bongoparty #1 Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

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No, this is NOT a whine thread about how efficiency rating doesn't matter. I know it does. In this thread I want to express some constructive critisism to the actually great threat assessment tool XVM.

I believe everyone had a match where the chance of success was 95% and still the entire team boarded the choo choo lemming train of fail. Respectively everyone had a game or two where the chances of success were non existent and it resulted in a pwnfest.

The reasons behind this I believe that firstly some people look only at winchances and think "hey d00dz we are 1337 and we play against n00bz so this is gonna beez an autowin". As a result they play like noobs themselves and get pwned by less efficient players who play like they always do. Especially this happens quite often when Team 1 has avg rating of 1400 and team 2 of 1200.  Players with 1200 efficiency are not retarded but Team 1 thinks they are playing against afks as they got their confidence from the winchances rating they saw at the loading screen.

Secondly and maybe most important, I believe that XVM as it shows up right now is not very accurate. For instance: My overall efficiency rating is 1110 right now. This is a result  of me playing like a noob for about a year. Then some player told me that I have a bad efficiency rating of 930. And I started to learn weakspots, tactics, map-positions and the advantages and disadvantages of tanks. If you take my efficiency for the last 709 games it will be somewhere between 1400 and 1600 according to noobmeter. This gives me an advange over players who look at my rating and think I am noob. As an outcome I often reduce those players to shreds. Other players again stay at their efficiency and dont improve - or even might get worse.


My suggestions: I believe that XVM should only consider the last 1000 battles and not the overall statistics as this would be a much more accurate threat assessment tool. Although for me it would be a disadvantage....  :Smile-playing:

Secondly: People should more carefully analyze the teams and not only look at winchances.


As this is a discussion about a mod/add-on, moving to off topic
- Ectar

Edited by Ectar, 26 January 2013 - 02:16 PM.


Bullitt #2 Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

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I gave up using XVM I just got depressed.

JayJay4466 #3 Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

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I used to use it but I don't anymore.

I think if people do use it, they should configure it to not show the win percentage- there is no practical benefit, as far as I can see, to having that information, and it risks making the player either overly confident or overly pessimistic.

I think your point about only looking at the last 1000 games is a very valid one. Personally, I think most players are capable of either playing well above their usual standard, or well below it, in a one-off battle, so any information on a player can only serve as a guide.

Unfortunately, a certain type of player gives XVM a very bad name- the "we lose" brigade (we've all met them).

I say to people, if you find the information tactically useful, then fair play to you- go ahead and use it. Just keep the information to yourself, as other players may not want to know what its telling you.

Edited by JayJay4466, 25 January 2013 - 12:52 PM.


VeryRisky #4 Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:52 PM

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I had XVM for a couple of weeks but never turned on the win-rate thing.

Haven't reinstalled it for .8.3 as I couuldn't get the config sorted to my satisfaction.  However I never had the win chance up as I couldn't see how it could help.

Bravar #5 Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:52 PM

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Da li ima neko da mi da bar jedan neiskoriscen kod?Hvala unapred...

FadetoB1ack #6 Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:55 PM

    Warrant Officer

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i use it but without the win percentage, i think that i should evaluate my own decision on the chances for a win depending on the map, resp, tanks and etc. there are too many variables to account for, sometimes taking a particular hill will make all the difference despite the percentage.

MataPollos #7 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:00 PM

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View PostBullitt, on 25 January 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

I gave up using XVM I just got depressed.

me too... uninstalled it months ago...

Chmee #8 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

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I use it whenever someone yells 'Follow me, Chmee', in order to appraise whether I should exchange my own plan of battle for a vague substitute of team work.

clixor #9 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:02 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

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Win chance is misleading, one unicum basicaly inflates this and they also can have a bad battle.

But seeing other players stats does has advantages. To assess if they have a good crew, playing stock or not, possibly knowing when to shoot gold etc.etc.

guguloi #10 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

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View PostJayJay4466, on 25 January 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Just keep the information to yourself, as other players may not want to know what its telling you.
+1.
Common-sense man. Unfortunately is rare nowadays.

1001Tank #11 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

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I dont break my head with such things, yet better that I dont see my team % and other stuff, I know how bad was team if we lose 15-5 or worse xD

However, even the worst player can have good day in battles and perform very good despite xvm % of winning match.

Waagabondh #12 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:04 PM

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View PostBullitt, on 25 January 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

I gave up using XVM I just got depressed.

This.

I used it for maybe, 50 games in total.

For random games, just try and play your best, and quite honestly, you will fairly soon figure out if someone is decent and tag long.
But even so, if you do moves and have a leading tank role, even none experienced will follow you and assist.

The games occur where you do everything and the team still fails, Its close to mathematically impossible but I see them very frequent.
The player base in WOT is the most uneven I have ever found in any game. Without competition.

I dont use it cause it just distracts me from having fun.
But I would not mind match making brackets, for sure not. It would make the game far more appealing and interesting.

Lord_Zulu #13 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:04 PM

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I used to hate XVM and the players using it till someone pointed out that i have never used it and did't know what i was talking about! so i installed it and disabled the winchance thing pretty quick as it is f***ing crap after using it I have seen my eff going up and up I dont think i could live without it now helps me spot the afk/idle/bot's at game start. Your point on the last 1000 battles is a very good one and maybe the guy developing xvm will see this and implement it

KLguns #14 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:10 PM

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Hi! I also use it, but have disabled this chance of win calculations, I only use it for knowing a bit more of my enemies and especially when attacking someone, of his ER and battlecount I can adjust my attack or defence strategy.

dodgerman20001 #15 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:13 PM

    Staff Sergeant

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Never used it, seen the idiots that have that shout before the match begins " we are going to lose" and the best one "I'm not going to play as we will lose anyway"
My advice to anyone that thinks seeing your opponents win ratio will help you win is this.. you simply cannot calculate the out come of war, every player plays differently despite his/her win ratio... no two players play the same and everyone has off days/weeks...

toniblaz1 #16 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:14 PM

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Im using XVM, I have 1740 eff rating, and I never had any problems with players who have 1000 or less eff rating.
and yes you cant jump in skill so high from 900 eff.r.
this xvm is good only because he looks on all stats and you cant reset him, or count only last 1000 battles like you said

anonym_7penZrHGljMO #17 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:19 PM

    Lance-corporal

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The win rate, like eff rating, is a use with pinch of salt kind of thing. You need to use it in conjunction with looking at the list of tanks, if the teams are balanced it's usually fairly accaurate. However, if your team is badly balanced you're probably going to lose even with a high win rate.

BlubbsoR #18 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

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Good thing it isn't working for me ...

Kuad #19 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:29 PM

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I mainly use it so I know who to ignore entirely in chat. The dude with the 42% WR over 12k battles telling me to follow him is just setting up a trap! He will later call me a noob who can't play. I won't mute him, because it is good to laugh.

Swoopie #20 Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:42 PM

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Just finished making my XVM config for 0.8.3. Though I'm not using efficiency as the main stat, but WN6 (For those of you who dont know, cap/def whoring wont work with WN6, it's one of the best skill indicator out there right now, though theres room for improvement).

So yes I use XVM, and find it useful. Though I keep the information it gives to myself and my platoonmates.




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