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Negligence, Sharp Practice or Theft?

wargaming gold premiumammo negligence sharppractice theft

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Poll: Negligence or Sharp Practice (245 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

When you are charged gold for premium ammo despite the fcat that you have repeatedly told the game that you want to use credits not gold is it:

  1. Negligent programming by Wargaming to allow the game to continually try to charge you gold - money - despite your repeated direction to use in game credits? (94 votes [38.37%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.37%

  2. Sharp practice programming by Wargaming to allow the game to continually try to charge you gold - money - despite your repeated direction to use in game credits? (51 votes [20.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.82%

  3. Theft because against your specific and frequent direction, Wargaming have in effect taken a monetary value from you without your consent with the intention of permanently depriving you of that value? (100 votes [40.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.82%

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DashingPanache #1 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

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*
POPULAR

Hi All,

I have been loading up on premium ammo for my Tiger & Tiger P whilst I grind through the short 8.8 to the long 8.8 to allow me to have a hope in hell when an IS3 comes knocking.

Each tank I run is set to auto repair, replenish consumables and ammo. Everytime i do this I am VERY careful to set the garage up to use in game CREDITS to replenish ammo (the aim is to speed up the grind, not make money) and NOT gold.

However, the game randomly and arbitarilly changes my settings so that some tanks will, despite my clear and frequent direction to use credits, reset to gold. I run 29 - 32 tanks so checking each one is a pain in the backside that is necessitated by Wargaming negligent programming or intentional sharp practice to allow the server to unilaterally and against my clear direction switch my "choice" to gold.

Thus far, the game has not caught me out, but yesterday it did. I was running my Tiger in a battle and post battle 20 gold were automatcially deducted from my account to replenish 2 rounds of premium ammo. The game had, I beleive, randomly changed from using credits as per my direction to using gold, directly contrary to my clearly expressed wishes.

I wrote to Wargaming support to state that this error had occurred and made clear my expectation that the 20 gold would be replaced in my account. This may sound petty, but having spent well over €100 on this game I am not too bothered about the 20 gold but am extremely concerned at the principle of what has happened: Wargaming have taken a monetary value from me without my consent, in fact, directly contrary to my clearly and frequently expressed direction. That could be inadvertant, it could also be sharp practice and, in either event, in effect theft. Wargaming repsonded that they would not refund the gold and blamed me for selecting gold, which I never, ever did.

Theft is a word that is bandied about a good deal without proper understanding. As a lawyer I know what it is and it is Wargaiming's repsonse to my request that the amount be refunded that moves this, in my opinion, from an error to theft: theft is the intention to permanently deprive another of a something - in this case a vale I have paid for - agisnt that persons wishes or consent.

I intend to take Wargaming to task over this because if their programming is negligent in continually resetting to using gold against player directions to use credits they need to overhaul this. If it is sharp practice, they need to be exposed for it. I would very much appreciate others who have had this expereince to join with me in doing so through whatever means necessary and the community as a whole to cast their vote so that Wargaming get the message.

Turbotube #2 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:11 PM

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If you change guns, the premium ammo will switch back to gold.

DashingPanache #3 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

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View PostTurbotube, on 26 January 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

If you change guns, the premium ammo will switch back to gold.

I did not change guns and the game changes back to gold on tanks where I have had the same gun, same turret etc.for weeks.

I had been running an Elited T1 for a couple of weeks. Totally randomly and arbitarilly it would switch to using gold to replace premium ammo. Luckilly, I caught the game out everytime before any damage was done, but it does not change the fact that the game should never try and charge me gold - of monetary value that I have paid for - without my consent and against my clear direction.

Edited by DashingPanache, 26 January 2013 - 08:23 PM.


bishop_basher #4 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

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I run about 15 tanks and have never seen it happen...yet.

lampadas #5 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

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do u play only on one PC or u have two accounts (not yours may other play at home)?

DashingPanache #6 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

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View Postlampadas, on 26 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

do u play only on one PC or u have two accounts (not yours may other play at home)?

1 account on 1 PC.

Ganscs #7 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

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Prem ammo on short 88 so doesn't worth it  :Smile_sceptic: From 132 pen to 171, yay. It will bounce just as much as the plain AP if you don't hit weakspots, and if you play the Tigers the way they are should be played, you will never be that close to hit weakspots reliably.

DashingPanache #8 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:41 PM

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View PostGanscs, on 26 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Prem ammo on short 88 so doesn't worth it  :Smile_sceptic: From 132 pen to 171, yay. It will bounce just as much as the plain AP if you don't hit weakspots, and if you play the Tigers the way they are should be played, you will never be that close to hit weakspots reliably.

Actually, it does make a difference: ypou can pen an IS3 rather than just attract his attention to you.

DashingPanache #9 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

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Thanks to everyone for voting, please encourage as may others to do so because I hope that if Wargaming see a strong turnout on this they may be encouraged to address the issue and restore faith in them.

Jibraill #10 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

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JAN 24, 2013
Warning - a gold ammo bug confirmed
Attention!

A bug has been discovered and confirmed by the developers: if you load up your tank with golden shells for silver and shoot them while you selected automatic reload on the tank repair and ammo screen, if you have gold, the shells will be bought for gold and not for silver. Be careful. Developers suggest that if you insist on using gold shells for silver while you have some gold on your account, you should stop using automatic reload after each battle.
Update: according to a test by Tupinambis, this bug does not seem to affect the NA server. EU server is yet unconfirmed.
Update2: according to some other players' tests, it doesn't seem to occur on EU server either. Nevertheless, be careful.

Maybe go on forum/site to read the announcemtns and the news not only to complain :

lampadas #11 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

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View PostGanscs, on 26 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Prem ammo on short 88 so doesn't worth it  :Smile_sceptic: From 132 pen to 171, yay. It will bounce just as much as the plain AP if you don't hit weakspots, and if you play the Tigers the way they are should be played, you will never be that close to hit weakspots reliably.

yes that's the point of the question.......and you answer to his problem very PRO !

Forum posts always of topic :Smile_great:  and the-1 was mine

Edited by lampadas, 26 January 2013 - 08:45 PM.


Ganscs #12 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:50 PM

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View Postlampadas, on 26 January 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

yes that's the point of the question.......and you answer to his problem very PRO !

Forum posts always of topic :Smile_great:  and the-1 was mine
Next time be so nice and give the -1 to me not to him  :Smile_glasses:

lampadas #13 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

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View PostGanscs, on 26 January 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

Next time be so nice and give the -1 to me not to him  :Smile_glasses:

yes my mistake sorry

DashingPanache #14 Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:58 PM

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View PostJibraill, on 26 January 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

JAN 24, 2013
Warning - a gold ammo bug confirmed
Attention!

A bug has been discovered and confirmed by the developers: if you load up your tank with golden shells for silver and shoot them while you selected automatic reload on the tank repair and ammo screen, if you have gold, the shells will be bought for gold and not for silver. Be careful. Developers suggest that if you insist on using gold shells for silver while you have some gold on your account, you should stop using automatic reload after each battle.
Update: according to a test by Tupinambis, this bug does not seem to affect the NA server. EU server is yet unconfirmed.
Update2: according to some other players' tests, it doesn't seem to occur on EU server either. Nevertheless, be careful.

Maybe go on forum/site to read the announcemtns and the news not only to complain :

As I stated, as I have seen the game change over to gold against my direction before so I check evrytime that I launch the game that gold is not selected and credits are selected for every tank before I drive it.

On this occasion, the switch occurred during the game, so I could not do anything to stop it.

In any event, it does not address the question: Wargaming are clearly aware that thi happens. they have recently released a major update that did not contain a fix for a known issue. Is that negligence or sharp practice?

My vote would be negligence.

However, when I wrote to them and explained what happened and they refused to address the issue, in law at least, that became theft. Theft does not require anything more than the following 2 elements to be proven:
1. Deprivation of a thing by one person that rightly belongs to another.
2. The intention to permanently deprive the rightful owner of that thing.

Their minimus of negligence delivers the former, their customer service response proves the latter. Accordingly I have voted for theft because inlaw that is what has happened - a negligent act or ommission that they expressly refuse to rectify permanently is theft.

Edited by DashingPanache, 26 January 2013 - 09:00 PM.


Tichy67 #15 Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:01 PM

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View PostTurbotube, on 26 January 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

If you change guns, the premium ammo will switch back to gold.

It resets to gold also when you change the turret. Although you get a "ammo failed to load" message and have to go to service anyways. I use some gold shells on all vehicles and made sure that i select credits whenever anything changes, and so far no gold was paid. I would prefer a global switch though - like "[x] only use credits for premium ammo"

Paskal0kki001 #16 Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:48 PM

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I get your point OP but i can pretty much promise that WG will not give a <profanity removed> about your 20 golds gone missing not even if it was 2000 golds. They are just milking every penny/cent/etc. they can from the players with 0 customerservice and accountability before anyone else creates a F2P-tank/war-game to rival WG.


Please refrain from using profanity in your posts on these forums.

Per the forum rules:
Spoiler                     

Regards:
---Orree

DashingPanache #17 Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

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View PostPaskal0kki001, on 26 January 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

I get your point OP but i can pretty much promise that WG will not give a <profanity removed> about your 20 golds gone missing not even if it was 2000 golds. They are just milking every penny/cent/etc. they can from the players with 0 customerservice and accountability before anyone else creates a F2P-tank/war-game to rival WG.

It would be the end of me paying for anything further if that were true. I hope that you are wrpng & I hope that this post & poll wake them up to the fact that their negligence & customer service combo leads to theft.

Edited by Orree, 28 January 2013 - 09:50 PM.


Aimless #18 Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:34 PM

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View PostPaskal0kki001, on 26 January 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

I get your point OP but i can pretty much promise that WG will not give a <profanity removed> about your 20 golds gone missing not even if it was 2000 golds. They are just milking every penny/cent/etc. they can from the players with 0 customerservice and accountability before anyone else creates a F2P-tank/war-game to rival WG.

And WG are clearly not the only ones. However, I don't think they implemented that malfunction on purpose. At least SerB stated that random switching from credits to gold is possible and recommended to disable the automatic resupply option until that bug is fixed (see also Silentstalker's russian Q&A thread).

Edited by Orree, 28 January 2013 - 09:50 PM.


DashingPanache #19 Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:40 PM

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View PostAimless, on 26 January 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

And WG are clearly not the only ones. However, I don't think they implemented that malfunction on purpose. At least SerB stated that random switching from credits to gold is possible and recommended to disable the automatic resupply option until that bug is fixed (see also Silentstalker's russian Q&A thread).

Aimless my point would end if they said we understand that you disabled the gold replenishment before you laucnhed but during your game it switched back. This error is being addressed and we are happy to refund gold improperly deducted in this way.
Instead they have said there is a fault in the game that makes us money at the expense of our customers.  If you fall foul of this error despite making reasonable attempts to avoid it, we will blame you and refuse to refund your value. We don't care that it amounts to theft as this is making us money and nobody is doing anything about it to stop us.

My intention is to force them to do something about it and retrun to the rightful owners gold deducted improperly in this way.

Aimless #20 Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:48 PM

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Who wouldn't like to see something like this happen. In the 25 months being here and getting to know WG, and from the experience I made throughout the years with other gaming companies and their willingness to reimburse you for any losses you suffer from bugs and server breakdowns etc. i think it's very unlikely that you will succeed. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you  :Smile_blinky:





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