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Negligence, Sharp Practice or Theft?

wargaming gold premiumammo negligence sharppractice theft

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Poll: Negligence or Sharp Practice (245 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

When you are charged gold for premium ammo despite the fcat that you have repeatedly told the game that you want to use credits not gold is it:

  1. Negligent programming by Wargaming to allow the game to continually try to charge you gold - money - despite your repeated direction to use in game credits? (94 votes [38.37%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.37%

  2. Sharp practice programming by Wargaming to allow the game to continually try to charge you gold - money - despite your repeated direction to use in game credits? (51 votes [20.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.82%

  3. Theft because against your specific and frequent direction, Wargaming have in effect taken a monetary value from you without your consent with the intention of permanently depriving you of that value? (100 votes [40.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.82%

Vote Hide poll

Mr_Burrows #21 Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

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I made a point of this a few weeks back. I even got neg-repped for it. Sometimes I think that the player base needs a good s*** over....

I voted "theft", btw.

DashingPanache #22 Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:59 PM

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View PostAimless, on 26 January 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

Who wouldn't like to see something like this happen. In the 25 months being here and getting to know WG, and from the experience I made throughout the years with other gaming companies and their willingness to reimburse you for any losses you suffer from bugs and server breakdowns etc. i think it's very unlikely that you will succeed. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you  :Smile_blinky:

I think they can be embarassed into it. As I say, what they are doing is, in law, theft. Corporate bodies can also be prosecuted for theft. With the support of enough of their customers hopefully they will undertake to address the issue & reimburse people before it goes beyond this forum and onto the WWW and my local police station.

I forced Steam to refund in full the price of Empire Total War on the basis that the product that was first released and sold to me was so bug ridden that it was unfit for sale. I outlined the relevant consumer legislation and the applicability of that legislation and made plain that i would be happy to claim in small claims court. As a corporate body they would be reuqired to employ counsel and that would cost thousands if not tens of thousands. They relented.

Edited by DashingPanache, 26 January 2013 - 11:05 PM.


Platypusbill #23 Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:25 AM

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Hasn't happened to me yet.

But if you are afraid that it will happen, just pre-purchase some shells so they will be drawn from the depot.

dUG1 #24 Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:53 AM

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Well, this will probably be the first time I am defending WG, but...

It happened to me several days ago.
At first, I was pretty much surprised and kinda disappointed, but after checking it twice and being 100% sure I didnt swap anything on my own, something didnt felt right at all.

Then, 2 days ago, I stumbled upon SS-s post about it being confirmed as a bug by devs.

My post about that situation:

View PostdUG1, on 25 January 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Yup, I can (unfortunately) confirm this.
Swapped 152mm derp on SU-152 for 122mm, but changed my mind soon after (derp is just 2 much fun with HEAT ammo), trolled around using HEAT bought with credits, just to get them re-bought with gold after the fight.
100 gold (lucky for me, all I had, otherwise it would be a bigger waste) - gone.
The worst part is - I have a stack of HEAT ammo from last sale, but game "decided" I want to spend gold for them, instead of using those in the depot.
Really lame.

With confirmation it was a bug, I sent a polite and thorough mail to WG Customer support, explaining what happened, as well as links to devs saying its a bug.

Result was this:

Quote

Hello Commander,

Thank you for your feedback. Please note that we checked your log and see the following:
dUG1 Buy --- -96 0 0 0 16 Shell: 53BP540 (16138)
Due to this, we removed the 16 shells and compensated you with the gold ; )

We hope you continue to enjoy our game and wish you the best of luck for all of you future tank battles!

+
https://lh4.googleus...8/s306/gold.jpg

I suggest you do the same, because threads like this one aint going to change anything  :Smile_blinky:

DashingPanache #25 Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:58 AM

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View PostdUG1, on 27 January 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

Well, this will probably be the first time I am defending WG, but...

It happened to me several days ago.
At first, I was pretty much surprised and kinda disappointed, but after checking it twice and being 100% sure I didnt swap anything on my own, something didnt felt right at all.

Then, 2 days ago, I stumbled upon SS-s post about it being confirmed as a bug by devs.

My post about that situation:



With confirmation it was a bug, I sent a polite and thorough mail to WG Customer support, explaining what happened, as well as links to devs saying its a bug.

Result was this:

+
https://lh4.googleus...8/s306/gold.jpg

I suggest you do the same, because threads like this one aint going to change anything  :Smile_blinky:

The very reason that this post exists at all is because I wrote to customer service to complain about the bug costing me gold and they refused to repay the gold to my account. As I have said again and agan,that is what takes this out of the realm of negligence and makes it sharp practice & theft.

Had Wargaming done the right thing in the first place as they did for you I would have left it at that but they did not and on principle I will take the to task over that. I know from seeing similar posts that I am not alone in this frustration, in fact it would seem that your experience is the exceltion rather than the rule and it should be the rule: where gold is deducted by the game in error, that gold should be refudned to the account as quickly as possible and without any question.

dUG1 #26 Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:08 AM

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View PostDashingPanache, on 27 January 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

The very reason that this post exists at all is because I wrote to customer service to complain about the bug costing me gold and they refused to repay the gold to my account. As I have said again and agan,that is what takes this out of the realm of negligence and makes it sharp practice & theft.

Had Wargaming done the right thing in the first place as they did for you I would have left it at that but they did not and on principle I will take the to task over that. I know from seeing similar posts that I am not alone in this frustration, in fact it would seem that your experience is the exceltion rather than the rule and it should be the rule: where gold is deducted by the game in error, that gold should be refudned to the account as quickly as possible and without any question.

WG (customer service) is far from perfect - in fact, most of the time its pretty much horrible imho (refusing to ban obvious bots/leechers is what pisses me off the most).
But then again, accusing them of theft and raging about it is pretty much a one-way ticket to having your problem being ignored.

Here - feel free to take my post as a "proof", link it in your ticket response, make sure you pick the right "category" (mine was game support), and most of all - be polite and patient.
If they still dont help you, try to contact Ectar or anyone from the Community team, but again - in polite and adult manner.

DashingPanache #27 Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:59 AM

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View PostdUG1, on 27 January 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

WG (customer service) is far from perfect - in fact, most of the time its pretty much horrible imho (refusing to ban obvious bots/leechers is what pisses me off the most).
But then again, accusing them of theft and raging about it is pretty much a one-way ticket to having your problem being ignored.

Here - feel free to take my post as a "proof", link it in your ticket response, make sure you pick the right "category" (mine was game support), and most of all - be polite and patient.
If they still dont help you, try to contact Ectar or anyone from the Community team, but again - in polite and adult manner.

I have been polite throughout. I am not "raging" as you put it, I am trying to force Wargaming to address the problem by having it discussed rather than repressed. I have given them the opportunity to repair the situation and show their bona fides. That they have chosen not to thus far is their decision but it is one that is wrong in both criminal and civil law.
I am taking this up on principle and I will see it through on principle. As with Steam, a small claims court action will be easilly won and the cost to Wargaming will be disproportionate. I beleive that the people in Wargaming are, like most people, fairly decent folk. I do not think they have thought this through and I am giving them the opportunity to do so. The purpose of this post is to increase the volume so that they do hear what is being said and deal with it approrpriately.

Edited by DashingPanache, 27 January 2013 - 03:01 AM.


BlackPawLynx #28 Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:18 AM

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Happened to me too, I have lost around 30-40 gold... I very rarely shoot gold, I have 2 gold shells in every tank, and I only use them at the end or in a close match, but after being tricked into shooting gold repeatedly again and again... I now always make sure to have credits in each tank before going to battle - which is very tedious.

zmeul #29 Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:07 AM

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aside from the warning, WG should've hot-fixed the issue asap
not when they feel like it or in the next planned patch, but as soon as possible

CometF #30 Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:29 AM

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Never had this happen to me yet. But as this is a known bug, and you've already had it happen to you, why on  earth insist on still using it? I won't say what I feel it is, but let's just say none of the poll options cover it...

I quess I can understand you yelling for theft for the very first resupply it did automatically with gold, but the rest of times it did it are just as much your own fault for not changing the settings. Isn't there a saying about doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?

I hope you can get over of the loss of these 5 cents, or better yet somehow get it back, and can keep on playing with a smile on your face  :Smile_Default:

zmeul #31 Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:01 AM

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View PostCometF, on 27 January 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

I hope you can get over of the loss of these 5 cents
5cents, that's 0.05 € correct ?
now let's assume 50k players used gold ammo and the system "cheated" them and those 5 cents, that's nearly 3000 Euros!!!!

holy mother of five cents !

Aethelwulf309 #32 Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

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ive noticed this to...pikey bar-stewards

CometF #33 Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:49 AM

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View Postzmeul, on 27 January 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

5cents, that's 0.05 € correct ?
now let's assume 50k players used gold ammo and the system "cheated" them and those 5 cents, that's nearly 3000 Euros!!!!

holy mother of five cents !

For a company that to my knowledge makes a revenue/profit counted in millions(?) per year, they must have a hard time stopping their evil laughter after cunningly cheating extra few thousand euros from players.

This was clearly planned since the release date, no way it's just an accidental bug in programming...

zmeul #34 Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:59 AM

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View PostCometF, on 27 January 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

This was clearly planned since the release date, no way it's just an accidental bug in programming...
did I said otherwise? check my 1st post: http://forum.worldof...40#entry3849740

even so, let's ignore those thousands of Euros taken from the players by a bug - because why!??!!?

gazzer21 #35 Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:21 PM

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Sharp practice , but you should know how WG are with money,so only to be expected realy.

so its negligence on your part to trust WG not to bend over there customers at every opportunity.

Turn off auto resupply & repair till/or if it ever gets sorted out.

Epicolor #36 Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

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Would be nice to have an option in the main option menu to disable buying anything but premium game time with gold.

Once I spent gold for premium ammo on the Ren.UE57 by mistake. (That tier 3 french mini TD which I moved on very fast)

Edited by Epicolor, 27 January 2013 - 12:26 PM.


anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #37 Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

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The same issue happened back in the day when the sell button was next to the repair button.
Accidentally sold my M6A2E1 this way. Never intended to sell it.

I got it restored though (big big plus for Tech Support!!!)

Edited by Costarring, 27 January 2013 - 01:26 PM.


DashingPanache #38 Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:18 PM

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View PostCometF, on 27 January 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Never had this happen to me yet. But as this is a known bug, and you've already had it happen to you, why on  earth insist on still using it? I won't say what I feel it is, but let's just say none of the poll options cover it...

I quess I can understand you yelling for theft for the very first resupply it did automatically with gold, but the rest of times it did it are just as much your own fault for not changing the settings. Isn't there a saying about doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?

I hope you can get over of the loss of these 5 cents, or better yet somehow get it back, and can keep on playing with a smile on your face  :Smile_Default:

So the fact that at some point before I started playing WG announced that the game has a flaw that can wrongly charge you gold makes me a fool?
Where have I "yelled theft"? I have calmly set out the facts and the relevant law. I have clearly stated that it is a matter of principle, not need for the "5 cents" you claim, but then again, it's plain you haven't actually read anything through before putting your ignorance on public display.
I appreciate that reading and comprehension are not strong skills for you, but please read again, slowly as you need to, so you can actually talk with some command of the discussion and not just your own unprincipled prejudices.

Danger_UXB #39 Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:35 PM

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Your right it constitutes theft  and it needs to be followed so it doesnt happen to other people here...Your in a furtunate position being a lawyer  to have the tools to mabye affect this well....

As extreme as it may be you might be able to put a commercial 'lien' against them so they sit up and take notice....Good luck anyway

Ferodaktyl #40 Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:29 PM

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The same thing happened to me also, and i approve your action. Make them pay you back , one way or another. Monetary value is not the issue here, but their attitude towards paying customers, the same customers that support their f2p game.
Unfortunately i am/was too lazy to follow up with more than 1 post in the forum (http://forum.worldof...__fromsearch__1), but WG has lost at least one paying client - me (much more i am sure  :Smile_popcorn1: , and counting). Even if it doesn't matter for them, i won't continue to pay someone who, by negligence or by intent scams me out of my money.
Btw, i voted for negligence.





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