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How is the T71 ballanced?


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Judqment8 #41 Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:56 PM

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My WRs: AMX 12t (56.8%) after 511 battles, T21 (56.6%) after 62 battles, AMX 13 75 (53.4%) after 131 battles and T71 (0%) after 6 battles.

I love the french lights and hate this OP ugly T71.

Zamial #42 Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:56 PM

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People often over look other areas a tank excels in that isn't mentioned in the garage like gun depression. It may seem irrelevant but it greatly changes the positions a tank is good to attack from. The T110 doesn't need to go nearly as far over a crest to get a shot off and is able to lower the gun further than most enabling it to shoot safely from above where as an IS-7 which is low to the ground and has less depression offers a much smaller shootable view range. No one ever suggests these affect balance but they do. I favour the tanks with a larger depression as you have more locations on any map that you can shoot from and even dangerous shots are made safer with more depression. I find the brit T10 has some good depression as well, just a bit weak on penetration and a bit weak in armour. Making that gun depression vital. That's just one often over looked element of a tank.

You can't just quote numbers when talking about balance it's far more interesting than a spread sheet can show.

Edited by Zamial, 07 February 2013 - 07:57 PM.


MikeSaintz #43 Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:11 PM

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Point 1: T71 is not OP. It's soooo easy to kill. And all it takes is good positioning to counter one.

Ponit 2: T71 outclasses AMX 1375 in every way.

I should know. I have both. The AMX 1375 was a former favorite.

PS: Don't you guys think this OP threads are getting old? There are always OP tanks everywhere. I've never driven one.
Maybe, just maybe, it's the player that makes the tank, and not the other way around?

tomogaso #44 Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:28 AM

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View PostJudqment8, on 07 February 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

My WRs: AMX 12t (56.8%) after 511 battles, T21 (56.6%) after 62 battles, AMX 13 75 (53.4%) after 131 battles and T71 (0%) after 6 battles.

I love the french lights and hate this OP ugly T71.
You played 6 battles, you probably didn't even elite it. And even with the most OP tank in the game you can lose 6 in a row, because it's a random matchmaker. I lost my first 17 in a row in my Lorraine 40t, but that's still a very good tank.

tomogaso #45 Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:30 AM

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View PostSanctorum, on 07 February 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Point 1: T71 is not OP. It's soooo easy to kill. And all it takes is good positioning to counter one.

Ponit 2: T71 outclasses AMX 1375 in every way.

I should know. I have both. The AMX 1375 was a former favorite.

PS: Don't you guys think this OP threads are getting old? There are always OP tanks everywhere. I've never driven one.
Maybe, just maybe, it's the player that makes the tank, and not the other way around?
I never said it's OP, I just said it's not balanced with the 13 75 and vice versa, as you said it simply outclasses it.

And come on, everyone is saying the T71 is more fragile than the AMX, and yet the server win% is higher for it. If kamikaze rushing noobs can do better with it than the AMX, then it's obviously not as fragile as you all say.

Loofah #46 Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:19 AM

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View PostSanctorum, on 07 February 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Point 1: T71 is not OP. It's soooo easy to kill. And all it takes is good positioning to counter one.

Ponit 2: T71 outclasses AMX 1375 in every way.

I should know. I have both. The AMX 1375 was a former favorite.

PS: Don't you guys think this OP threads are getting old? There are always OP tanks everywhere. I've never driven one.
Maybe, just maybe, it's the player that makes the tank, and not the other way around?

Yeah, with "good positioning" you can kill anything. or when enemy driver is 42% WR retard-bot.
But this isn't really even a semi-decent argument when talking about balancing, because "position advantage" usually goes to the faster tank anyway, and guess what, T71 is one of the fastest/most mobile tanks in game, actually only T-50/T-50-2 can win a race around the map against it IMO.

Capus #47 Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:36 AM

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View PostKwagga, on 07 February 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

  • Cannot hit sh@t on the move
  • Cannot make a fast turn (drifting away instead)
  • Regular engine damage or fire
  • You can squash it like a bug in a bigger tank
Uhm,

pretty much all those things go for the amx 75 too, it burns fast, it's engine gets knocked out very easily, when a big tank rams it, it just gets pancaked. It's not that accurate on the move either, and it's turning radius is quite mediocre.

The only thing where the 75 has an edge is in it's camo value which is the highest of all T7 tanks.

Panocek #48 Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:17 AM

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View PostKwagga, on 07 February 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

  • Cannot hit sh@t on the move
  • Cannot make a fast turn (drifting away instead)
  • Regular engine damage or fire
  • You can squash it like a bug in a bigger tank

Sure, T71 have bad accuracy on the move, but so far NO autoloader have it decent. Turning, I've never had issue with it while I could drift with it "on demand" for the lols when stuck on Serene Coast.
Engine damage is common, magic gearbox of doom is here anyway. But not that AMX 13 series are any better having whole engine block to the right and still can be roadkilled by anything (though I have 2 kamikazes on T71  :Smile_smile:  )

nerderklaus #49 Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:32 AM

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Don't forget that T71 gets critted whenever it gets hit...

TacPenguin #50 Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:20 AM

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View Postnerderklaus, on 08 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Don't forget that T71 gets critted whenever it gets hit...

Tell that to E100 i met on steps

Shot 1 on me hit track and i kept rolling with no HP loss

shot  2 on me I lost 90% HP and kept rolling no module or crew damage

Shot 3 he got me

He had the top gun and i killed a T34 and IS8 in magic rounabout corner  between hits

T71 can take a hit well in my experience but you do  normally have to repair fast or die

TacP

tomogaso #51 Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:21 AM

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View Postnerderklaus, on 08 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Don't forget that T71 gets critted whenever it gets hit...
And the AMX 13 75 is a supposed meatshield?

Judqment8 #52 Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:10 AM

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View Posttomogaso, on 08 February 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

You played 6 battles, you probably didn't even elite it. And even with the most OP tank in the game you can lose 6 in a row, because it's a random matchmaker. I lost my first 17 in a row in my Lorraine 40t, but that's still a very good tank.

I have it elited and I've already said that it is OP. I just don't want to play with T71. It's ruining the balance so I rather keep playing my AMX 75. That tank is just awesome.

At first I thought that I would just quickly grind the T69, but then I read the stats about that tank... That gun is only good with gold rounds. Such a shame.

Fjutsha #53 Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

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View PostEctar, on 07 February 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

T71 can be a strong tank one on one. But the obvious tactic for that is just don't let yourself get caught 1 on 1. Not every tank can be truely balanced for 1 on 1 situations.  If 2 tanks engage a T71 or even if you just have a friendly tank near to you, he has to make a choice who he's shooting them he has a long reload. He'll die before that reload is done.  Like the AMX lights it's best played as a vulture picking up wounded tanks or attacking when your focus is elsewhere.

The playstyles of the AMX 13 75 and the T71 are very similar - as you put it they are vultures best at taking lonely damaged opponents out of the match. Not to get caught in a 1:1 is true for all autoloader tanks and the AMX 13 75 dies just as quickly as the T71 when opposed by two enemy tanks. So far, so good.

Problem is that while being same tier tanks the T71 is far more capable of doing the job. I already posted this in another thread, so I will just quote myself...

€:
Dammit. That big post of mine is in german so there is no quoting sadly (here is the link in case you are interested: http://forum.worldof...54#entry3653054. I compared not only the stats (where the T71 excells with the only exceptions being cammo value and HP) but also modules (vertical stabilizer for the T71) and drivability (T71 bleeding less speed in turns).

This tank is so ridiculously OP at the moment. I just don´t get what WG did there. The french autoloaders were nerfed more than once since they came out because they were OP. Now there is a new brach of autoloader tanks coming out and they are even more OP than the french ever were? WTF Wargaming?

Edited by Fjutsha, 08 February 2013 - 11:28 AM.


Silverforce #54 Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:20 AM

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View PostJudqment8, on 08 February 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

At first I thought that I would just quickly grind the T69, but then I read the stats about that tank... That gun is only good with gold rounds. Such a shame.
Its okay without gold, you have speed to flank and hit weakspots, like all fast tanks USED to do..  now with gold ammo, especially T69, it just rapes heavies frontal. 300 pen for a tier 8 medium is not ok, not at all.

spuriousmonkey #55 Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:30 AM

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I believe the T71 might be OP, but only in the right hands. I had just a game where I encountered 2 t71s on the enemy team. They seemed to under-perform in the field of battle, so I looked up their stats.

Both had 50% winrate in their t71. One had an overall winrate of 45% (28 games in t71), the other of 51% (118 games in t71).

Myself I have a general winrate of 52% but I got a lot better the last few months. So my winrate is slightly distorted by being a total noob for 10k games. I did 78 games in the t71 and have a winrate of 68% in it.

So apparently the tank isn't automatically OP. It needs the right player!

I had to get used a bit to the autoloader tactics in the beginning, but after that it was smooth sailing. The tank is everything I wanted the chaffee to be, but wasn't. In fact I use the same playstyle I use on the t49 and the hellcat. And when used correctly it definitely has an impact on any game. Scout, snipe, stay alive, and get aggressive when there are weakened opponents.

But of course, sometimes you are just a total noob and die early, other times you have bad luck and die early. Like with any other tank.

Hippopotamus_Rex #56 Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:16 PM

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View PostLoofah, on 07 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Also T71 has better gun depression  7 vs 6. I thought it was 8 but maybe got nerfed...
Yes, T71 is OP ATM, just as every other new autoloader. T69 - with gold it's not even funny anymore, the most devastating T8 med with the best gold ammo around with v. good turret armor, gun depression etc. etc.  etc.,
WG should fire their "balance team" cause they have no idea what they're doing.
But this game's balance is going dowhill ever since they introduced autoloaders.

+1

I repeat it every time when my E75's HUGE gun deals "amazing" 400 damage after 13 seconds reload... Adding 0 damage crits, bounces and misses caused by "awesome German accuracy", oh my... With every new lump of fresh tanks I feel the older ones become more and more obsolete.

Tasiorowski #57 Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:07 PM

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For me T71 is OP without a doubt, BUT in right hands. The magic about T71 is its penetration, which gives way more self-confident feeling on battlefield. Parking T71 in good bush and u can spam damage through whole map. The chaffee just canot pen 8 tir heavies from the front. The T71 can "gun 'n' spot" making 3k dmg and 3k spotted dmg. on the same time. This is very hard to achievie on chaffee. The Chaffee has one thing better, which is accuracy on the move. But this meens nothing, since u must aim every shot carefuly to penetrate T7< tanks. So to complex it - The T71 has everything that u missed on your Chaffee. It is faster, delivers more firepower, more penetration. It is just very sexy. And it has better camo, which should be considered as major upside of this tank. For me, a keaper if it not get nerfed, which will probably occur in some unprecised future.

P.S. - I've seen  T71 that performed very bad, and even threads on the forum about how bad it is. But I can guarantee, that everyone that has good or very good performance in Chaffiee, will just make big eyeballs sitting in this machine first time. And then, in right "light " hands it is OP, just devastating whole battle.

Sergent_Lucky #58 Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

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Quote

this player has posted videos about the T71 :

http://forum.worldof...2964-t71-video/

this is how to play this tank, tell me what he does, that an other T5, T6, or T7 scout can't do?

Quote

The Chaffee has one thing better, which is accuracy on the move. But this meens nothing, since u must aim every shot carefuly to penetrate T7< tanks.

Same for T71 : the autoloader is a real drawback. did you played the T71 ? Look the video, (7.30) when he shot the 6 shell on the first arty. He was very lucky if not being killed by the second arty aiming at him, if a teammate arty dont shot on it before. The t71 miss a lot on the move and if you add -20sec reloading, its a terrible drawback for a scout. You MUST count every shot, or you are dead. Other drawback : Tracks and engine are super weak. Thats's why i think it's balanced.

Also dont forget T71 is a Tier 7, chaffe a tier 5, i dont play the chaffee but i doubt that you get much high tier battle compared to the T71, 175pen is just average : look the WZ-131, T7 light tank http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/WZ-131.

it has the t59 gun , 181 pen, 250 damage by shot!! OP tank? maybe not, it's not all about penetration or damage value.

Edited by Sergent_Lucky, 16 February 2013 - 12:21 PM.


Tasiorowski #59 Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:35 PM

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View PostSergent_Lucky, on 16 February 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

this is how to play this tank, tell me what he does, that an other T5, T6, or T7 scout can't do?



Same for T71 : the autoloader is a real drawback. did you played the T71 ? Look the video, (7.30) when he shot the 6 shell on the first arty. He was very lucky if not being killed by the second arty aiming at him, if a teammate arty dont shot on it before. The t71 miss a lot on the move and if you add -20sec reloading, its a terrible drawback for a scout. You MUST count every shot, or you are dead. Other drawback : Tracks and engine are super weak. Thats's why i think it's balanced.

Also dont forget T71 is a Tier 7, chaffe a tier 5, i dont play the chaffee but i doubt that you get much high tier battle compared to the T71, 175pen is just average : look the WZ-131, T7 light tank http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/WZ-131.

it has the t59 gun , 181 pen, 250 damage by shot!! OP tank? maybe not, it's not all about penetration or damage value.
in T71 u must plan what I call "attack rout". You must plan directly when u start, where are u stopping to empty the drum mag and where are you retreating after it to reload in safety. You must calculate those things in a flash which means that you have to know your machine and enemy machine quite well. The Chaffie is more for pickabooing, from further distances since it has gun with superb aimtime.

edit: yes I played T71. Wouldn't been talking about it if I didnt drive it

Ozymandias #60 Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:18 PM

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Have played both the AMX and the T71. Once again it's people whining about something being OP without either a) having played it or b) seeing how it performs after a couple of months when every average WoT player with like 45% WR starts owning it. The cool thing is that the T21 is not everyone's cup of tea and it will discourage a lot of people that equate light tanks with suicide scouting from grinding it to get to the T71 (even though the T21 was a pretty fun tank to play). And yes, I know I'm not a great player either so I'm not being elitist. But this reminds me of say the ARL debate. "OMG, it's a tier 6 tank with 212 pen omfg!!!!!one". People of course didn't take into accout the other issues like oh say abysmal RoF, nonexistent camo and an aiming time measured in centuries. We've spent like a year whining about OP French autoloader tanks, never having once stopped to consider that they are very situational and the result is a lot of the French lights are as it stands UP.

However, because some French lights have ended up to be UP, that doesn't mean the T71 is OP. Because a lot of you look into hard stats, let me give you some actual observations from having played a few games with it. It has flat out worse camo than the AMX 13 75. Not saying "bad" camo, just worse camo. While both tanks tend to get critted easily (because they are small and the hitboxes overlap), the T71 has this happen much more easily, especially the engine is quite prone to damage and/or fire. Also, the turret is bigger and more easily hit and since you'll be guaranteed to pen, more chance of a debilitating critical. While the gun is great and the pen is very appreciated, the extra reload time combined with the mediocre accuracy makes it worse for long range sniping (if you choose to play it that way). Also because again of the longer reload time, you need to make all shots count and the accuracy doesn't help in that. Although the AMX has much lower pen, the accuracy is noticeably better (and I'm not talking about the "hard" stat here). Oh and I know that on paper the armor difference isn't that great but I've had a few shots bounce off my AMX (and had the same happen when I'm shooting at one) and so far the same has never happened with the T71. I'd say it's the "bouncy" shape but I could be wrong.

Now I'm not saying the AMX is better. My 5 cents in this case is that the AMX could use a bit of a buff. If it got say 10+mm extra pen and the ability to monut vertical stabilizers (which I agree there's no good reason why it can't do that), I'd say they're pretty much balanced. But this is not the case of the T71 being OP, rather the AMX being UP. Trust me,given enough time so that a larger % of the playerbase acquires it, global WR's won't be all that much different. After all, in every other battle I get the classic "AMX (or T71) go scout" so I bet most people will keep thinking any light tank is automatically a dedicated scout for a long while.




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