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Vanishing gold - with a twist :)

gold contest

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WolfHeart #1 Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

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Ok, so most of you are probably aware that yesterday the prizes for that funny little contest with the Chinese tanks and stuff were finally sent. I opened up the client, eager to see my hard earned (lol) 1000 gold transferred and I was quite surprized to see that I have been given 3500 instead.

OK I think, perhaps I didn't notice winning in some other contest or something, or perhaps I was given cash on the account of being extremely awesome, or maybe some of the devs are in love with me - doesn't matter, gold is gold, right?

Sadly, an hour later, the excess gold was deducted from my account and that made me a sad panda. Awwww bloody hell and there I was thinking I could actually get something for free :)

Seems like someone in the WG thought "OH NOEZ WE HAEV GIVEN HIM FREE GOLD OMG GIVE IT BACK YOU NOOB", that's fine and well with me.

The whole situation appeared extremely funny to me, but then I asked myself: what would have happened if I had spent that gold as soon as it got transferred? In good faith, too, since I don't really feel like I'm obliged to check whether I'm actually entitled to virtual "money" given to me not by third parties, but by the game admins. Supposedly I had bought something and cleared my account of any gold - would have I been banned until I paid WG enough money to "even out the balance"?

That, my friends, might have been considered a serious breach of contract - or even a coercion, if we're speaking in legal terms.

Of course, nothing serious happened, still... talk about negligence, right?

mynameispuffs #2 Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

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Should have spent it quickly! but still that is a bit gutting :(

View PostWolfHeart, on 16 February 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

"OH NOEZ WE HAEV GIVEN HIM FREE GOLD OMG GIVE IT BACK YOU NOOB"

That sums up WG in general  :Smile_trollface-3:

Tony_Abbott #3 Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:20 PM

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View PostWolfHeart, on 16 February 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Ok, so most of you are probably aware that yesterday the prizes for that funny little contest with the Chinese tanks and stuff were finally sent. I opened up the client, eager to see my hard earned (lol) 1000 gold transferred and I was quite surprized to see that I have been given 3500 instead.

OK I think, perhaps I didn't notice winning in some other contest or something, or perhaps I was given cash on the account of being extremely awesome, or maybe some of the devs are in love with me - doesn't matter, gold is gold, right?

Sadly, an hour later, the excess gold was deducted from my account and that made me a sad panda. Awwww bloody hell and there I was thinking I could actually get something for free :)

Seems like someone in the WG thought "OH NOEZ WE HAEV GIVEN HIM FREE GOLD OMG GIVE IT BACK YOU NOOB", that's fine and well with me.

The whole situation appeared extremely funny to me, but then I asked myself: what would have happened if I had spent that gold as soon as it got transferred? In good faith, too, since I don't really feel like I'm obliged to check whether I'm actually entitled to virtual "money" given to me not by third parties, but by the game admins. Supposedly I had bought something and cleared my account of any gold - would have I been banned until I paid WG enough money to "even out the balance"?

That, my friends, might have been considered a serious breach of contract - or even a coercion, if we're speaking in legal terms.

Of course, nothing serious happened, still... talk about negligence, right?

From what I heard they would remove the vehicle/stuff you bought, refund you the gold, and then take the appropriate amount of gold away.

Don't blame them in advance for something they haven't done.

They just probably mistook you for somebody who was meant to receive the higher prize.

Blue2018 #4 Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:24 PM

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They probably have to give you a large amount and deduct it because of bad programming.

ChaosAeternus #5 Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

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Well when Riot made a mistake of giving my friend thrice the amount of premium points (League Of Legends) by mistake they admitted it and wrote him to enjoy them as best as he can. Id say thats how you resolve things with class as a businessman.

armatage #6 Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:45 PM

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View PostChaosAeternus, on 16 February 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Well when Riot made a mistake of giving my friend thrice the amount of premium points (League Of Legends) by mistake they admitted it and wrote him to enjoy them as best as he can. Id say thats how you resolve things with class as a businessman.

See where you made a mistake? WG is just kidney-stabbing spleen-hitting liver-punching money grabbers. And then they kick you in the crotch, just for the heck of it.

Ikarases #7 Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

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I have similar experience, but this time with the artillery and scout contest:

As you might know, it was about getting +3, +4 or +5 kills in your atrillery or about killing 3 arty pieces with your LT. I hadn´t really some good LT for killing arty at that time (if I had any LT at all), so I submitted to the contest with my GwTiger. I sent the required information... But then I noticed I´m missing the post-game screenie. I was like "OK, my first mail gets dumped, but the second will be alright.", so I sent a second mail with all the information.

To my surprise, I got 2*500 (1000) gold, even when they said something like "Only one submission is allowed, so you can get max. 1000 gold for LT and ART contests combined (2x500).". I´m not saying if I still have 500 gold or not, but the mistake is on their side, if they couldn´t send it properly. I wonder how many trolls spammed the WG´s mail that day with multiple e-mails...

I think it was a dishonest move by WG. If they give you some vitrual money by a mistake (which certainly shouldn´t happen too often), they should either do the thing like Riot in the example above did, or make a trade by sending you some premium tank, which you can´t get in the store (German B2) with apology and saying that they´ll remove the 2,5k gold. I guess you would accept it, since you won´t get German B2 too often and they can do with your account whatever they like anyway. Doing ninja moves and saying "You´ve seen nothing." is the worst option to go.

WolfHeart #8 Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

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View PostM1ll4n, on 16 February 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

From what I heard they would remove the vehicle/stuff you bought, refund you the gold, and then take the appropriate amount of gold away.

Don't blame them in advance for something they haven't done.

They just probably mistook you for somebody who was meant to receive the higher prize.

I don't actually blame them for the results, but I do point out that such mistakes are unacceptable. Also, I'm having a laugh at their expense :)

I should mention that there was the incident with players being unjustly banned because some people bought gold from not-so-official sources. WG did not in fact verify where the gold in question originated from, but banned everyone who used promo codes or bought something from the gift shop - the whole story was covered somewhere in the forum, around December last year.

So with that in mind, the thread is also meant to be a warning that there is no such thing as predictable behaviour on behalf of the administration.

CaptainMastiff #9 Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

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WG treat their gold like your virginity when you were young.

When you accidentally buy something, they've taken it from you and you can't have it given back, but when shoe is on the other foot suddenly this gold transaction system is actually able to refund gold back to them... amazing hey

Lukewehr #10 Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

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Dont know where you from Wolfheart but here in Norway if you get by mistake an excess of money on your bank account, the duty to acknowledge that money as illegitimate is on you. The bank will withdraw that money as soon as possible but if you have spent a cent of that, you committed a felony.
That said i reckon as astonishingly  immoral the entire post, i can just hope not have you in my team ever if your behaviour online resemble even by far the real life one.

chiggy #11 Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:03 PM

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You should of done the honest thing dude...........and spent it quickly :-)

armatage #12 Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

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View PostLukewehr, on 16 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Dont know where you from Wolfheart but here in Norway if you get by mistake an excess of money on your bank account, the duty to acknowledge that money as illegitimate is on you. The bank will withdraw that money as soon as possible but if you have spent a cent of that, you committed a felony.
That said i reckon as astonishingly  immoral the entire post, i can just hope not have you in my team ever if your behaviour online resemble even by far the real life one.

Thats suprising, i thought you use oil as money up there in norway

Lukewehr #13 Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:08 PM

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View Postarmatage, on 16 February 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Thats suprising, i thought you use oil as money up there in norway

Lolz thats just our piggy bank, the real money is in the Troll market ......

WolfHeart #14 Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

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View PostLukewehr, on 16 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Dont know where you from Wolfheart but here in Norway if you get by mistake an excess of money on your bank account, the duty to acknowledge that money as illegitimate is on you. The bank will withdraw that money as soon as possible but if you have spent a cent of that, you committed a felony.
That said i reckon as astonishingly  immoral the entire post, i can just hope not have you in my team ever if your behaviour online resemble even by far the real life one.
Actually, you are wrong about Norwegian legal system.

This is not a felony, but so-called unjust enrichment and it falls into the category of civil law responsibilities, not criminal law penalties. In fact, I wouldn't imagine any civilized country to penalize such behaviour, aside from restitution. Of course I might be wrong on that, assuming that Norway had miraculously turned into a third-world country ran by a malevolent dictator, but last time I checked it was still in Europe.

And all's fine and well, except we are not talking about real money, you see. I offered to pay at the gas station with WoT gold, unfortunately they refused. The same thing happened at a supermarket - I mean what is wrong with these people?!

Jokes aside, in-game gold is just a couple lines of code, (produced by the game developers and offered as an in-game optional service), not viable currency. IF such a situation arose, when I was given gold transferred from some other person, who paid for it with real money, I would honestly feel obliged to send it back. But it probably wasn't. And it wouldn't cost a dime to let the whole thing drop.

Long story short - your argument is completely invalid. Except that I do admit to being a cynical, horrible person. It is kind of required in the line of work I do. Hope that explanation satisfies your "holier-than-thou" attitude and you may feel better about yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I honestly don't give a flying F about 2500 gold - fretting about 9.99 Euro it would cost me to buy that bloody gold would be silly - but it is in fact a perfect opportunity to have a bit of laugh.

So basically, I'm trolling. But how the others view that situation is a completely different matter.

Regards.

brisha #15 Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:44 PM

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View PostWolfHeart, on 16 February 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Actually, you are wrong about Norwegian legal system.

This is not a felony, but so-called unjust enrichment and it falls into the category of civil law responsibilities, not criminal law penalties. In fact, I wouldn't imagine any civilized country to penalize such behaviour, aside from restitution. Of course I might be wrong on that, assuming that Norway had miraculously turned into a third-world country ran by a malevolent dictator, but last time I checked it was still in Europe.


It's you thats wrong, in the UK it's called "theft by finding", knowing it's not yours and spending it anyway is a criminal offence. It has been done many times and for those that had spent it and refused to pay it back, or agree a deal to pay it back, they were prosecuted and some sent to jail.

Edited by brisha, 16 February 2013 - 03:45 PM.


WolfHeart #16 Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:42 PM

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View Postbrisha, on 16 February 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

It's you thats wrong, in the UK it's called "theft by finding", knowing it's not yours and spending it anyway is a criminal offence. It has been done many times and for those that had spent it and refused to pay it back, or agree a deal to pay it back, they were prosecuted and some sent to jail.
Ah, but there comes a twist!

It's only an offense when you are in fact fullyaware that you come into possession of something owned by other person. Check up the term dolus directus, it's obligatory. Dolus eventualis is not enough in this case.
Hypothethically, given the nature of the bank transfers in general, it is possible to prove that someone has direct intention of spending the money which does not belong to him, only if certain circumstances arise.

Example: someone works as a freelancer with many business affiliates, the money he earns are varied in amounts due to the nature of his job. He receives a transfer for about 2000 GBP, which is quite usual for him. Then he spends the money, because he has unexpected expenses. Forgets about the whole matter, then it turns out the transfer was a mistake. Should he face charges? Of course not. No direct intention involved. If the person in question were given not 2000 GBP, but for example 2000000 all out of sudden, then he spent all that money - that's something different, since he does not normally earn that much. As he failed to verify the source of the money, which would be the normal course of action of a so called reasonably prudent and dilligent person under such circumstances, we might assume there was dolus directus regarding larceny.

Edited by WolfHeart, 16 February 2013 - 04:45 PM.


WolfHeart #17 Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

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View Postchiggy, on 16 February 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

You should of done the honest thing dude...........and spent it quickly :-)
Ironically, I didn't do that because I wanted to ask the admins where that gold's from and whether I can spend it ;)

Edited by WolfHeart, 16 February 2013 - 05:50 PM.


CaptainMastiff #18 Posted 16 February 2013 - 06:55 PM

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View Postbrisha, on 16 February 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

It's you thats wrong, in the UK it's called "theft by finding", knowing it's not yours and spending it anyway is a criminal offence. It has been done many times and for those that had spent it and refused to pay it back, or agree a deal to pay it back, they were prosecuted and some sent to jail.

In the UK, ideally you are suppose to turn it into the police and if it remains unclaimed after 28 days you are entitled to claim them for yourself, if you don't then they are then moved onto a police auction.

The law is a bit broken though in the UK as it is largely open to interpretation, especially with what you call "Theft by finding", if I was to find discarded goods from a store in a bin it would be a criminal offence to take them but we all view that as... trampish but still you're just taking unwanted items.

I know I owe a 4 figure sum towards energy bills to a landlord a few years ago, however they haven't bothered following it up. I'm not breaking the law by coming forward and telling her (her right to claim has gone well past by now) but I would of had some good will if she had shown me some throughout the tenancy agreement.

Greyfoot #19 Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:45 PM

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Good policy here would also be split the mistake amount with the player and apology.  :Smile_sceptic:




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