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WN6 & Efficiency Rating


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Norgaroth #1 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:21 PM

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This is not a thread to argue about which is best and what not.  I'm just looking for some clarification and understanding of them.

This is not to boast of my stats, there are plenty PLENTY of people with better stats and are better than me skillwise.

I am not stat obsessed, so long as all the ratings are all improving I feel that means I am improving as a player (I know I cannot control Win Rate by myself, sometimes you get bad runs).

Noobmeter Profile:
http://www.noobmeter...er/eu/Norgaroth

As you can see on my signature and my Noobmeter profile, my WN6 is considerably higher than my Efficiency, both overall and in the last month.  From what I understood before Efficiency was highly effected by capping, but they amended it to make considerably less impact on ones rating.  From browsing a few other players I cap at a reasonable rate, less than many, more than some.

So my question is, why is it that my WN6 is so much higher than my Efficiency Rating?  Does WN6 value my win rate higher than Efficiency? Does Efficiency rating punish me more because I have a lowish average tier because I'm still relatively new compared to a lot of players?

Just some guidance and explanation would be nice.  I'm not going to start trying to farm whatever it is that improves Efficiency, I believe those ratings should come as a by-product of how I play, not shape how I play in order to achieve them.  But still, I am a curious person and like to understand how things like this work.

TBTSan #2 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:26 PM

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If you ask "why" then why not look into formulas itself of both eff and wn6?
I saw somewhere the formula of last eff...

Doomas #3 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:28 PM

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There is 3 raitings XVM, WN6, and one from ru player they all takes different formula. Wn6 takes more win rate and dmg delt, XVM didnt take into account win rate but a little cap/deff instead, so its dependt of waht you style and whit what tanks you play.
Take example Hetzer/Shermans/pz IV gold derbs = a lot of kills and dmg, so wn6 will be higher, more play with td? potencional bigger dmg output wn6 go up. MOre trolling with tier 6-4 companies more win rate and so on.

radiumBromide #4 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:36 PM

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Look at http://wot-news.com/stat/calc/en/ru and you will clearly see what affects your EFF and WN6. Noobmeter's Performance Rating formula is not disclosed so it is hard to know what influences it. But it seems to be quite similar to wn6.

lonigus #5 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

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View PostNorgaroth, on 18 February 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

This is not a thread to argue about which is best and what not.  I'm just looking for some clarification and understanding of them.

This is not to boast of my stats, there are plenty PLENTY of people with better stats and are better than me skillwise.

I am not stat obsessed, so long as all the ratings are all improving I feel that means I am improving as a player (I know I cannot control Win Rate by myself, sometimes you get bad runs).

Noobmeter Profile:
http://www.noobmeter...er/eu/Norgaroth

As you can see on my signature and my Noobmeter profile, my WN6 is considerably higher than my Efficiency, both overall and in the last month.  From what I understood before Efficiency was highly effected by capping, but they amended it to make considerably less impact on ones rating.  From browsing a few other players I cap at a reasonable rate, less than many, more than some.

So my question is, why is it that my WN6 is so much higher than my Efficiency Rating?  Does WN6 value my win rate higher than Efficiency? Does Efficiency rating punish me more because I have a lowish average tier because I'm still relatively new compared to a lot of players?

Just some guidance and explanation would be nice.  I'm not going to start trying to farm whatever it is that improves Efficiency, I believe those ratings should come as a by-product of how I play, not shape how I play in order to achieve them.  But still, I am a curious person and like to understand how things like this work.

You seem far above average so there is a upwards trend in gameplay of yours.

XVM is more focused on high damage amounts and cap def.

WIN6 is focused on kills and more suited for stats boosting on lower tiers (5 till 8).

Was testing it with my VK3601 and after 30 games and 75 kills with 1800 avg damage I had a WIN6 rating of 2500 while "only" 1800 efficiency.

The same with 30 games with Obj268 I had 61 kills with 3750 avg damage 2450 efficiency while "only" 2000 WIN6 due to less kills and WR %.

tl,dr

XVM is more focused on damage while WIN6 on kills more suited for lower "derp" tiers.

Also important to know is that damage uppon spotting is no calculated in any of those ratings.

Ioituma #6 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

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Someone some time ago posted a graph showing that efficiency doesn't scale well along tiers and for a similar player will give better rating at low or high tier. I might remember it wrong but I think that's how it was.
Your average tier is 5.38 so you fall right in the efficiency limbo. Plus the fact that efficiency is in general a pretty weak formula especially if you certain types of tanks.

lonigus #7 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:41 PM

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View PostIoituma, on 18 February 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Someone some time ago posted a graph showing that efficiency doesn't scale well along tiers and for a similar player will give better rating at low or high tier. I might remember it wrong but I think that's how it was.
Your average tier is 5.38 so you fall right in the efficiency limbo. Plus the fact that efficiency is in general a pretty weak formula especially if you certain types of tanks.

Yes that confirms my post. The lower the avg tier the more XVM efficiency suffers.

Which also your signature is the best example ever.

guguloi #8 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

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WN6 focus on damage, kills (both tied with average tier) and overall WR, cap points doesn't matter and defense/spotted matters a little.
So do as much damage as you can, kill all you see and win all so you can have a nice WN6 number.
My stats for yesterday for example

Name		  Total	   Per battle
Victory ratio:	   68.33%
Battles:	   60
Efficiency:	   1478.67
WN6:		   1951.85
Average tier:	   6.95
Experience:	   49680   828
Capture points:	   69	   1.15
Defense points:	   10	   0.17
Damage:		   99930   1666
Kills:		   96	   1.6
Spotted:	   76	   1.27

And I'm doing my usually routine, daily-doubles for all my tanks in garage then pick the tank of the day (yesterday was arty, Lorri 51).

lonigus #9 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

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View Postguguloi, on 18 February 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

WN6 focus on damage, kills (both tied with average tier) and overall WR, cap points doesn't matter and defense/spotted matters a little.
So do as much damage as you can, kill all you see and win all so you can have a nice WN6 number.
My stats for yesterday for example

Name		  Total	   Per battle
Victory ratio:	   68.33%
Battles:	   60
Efficiency:	   1478.67
WN6:		   1951.85
Average tier:	   6.95
Experience:	   49680   828
Capture points:	   69	   1.15
Defense points:	   10	   0.17
Damage:		   99930   1666
Kills:		   96	   1.6
Spotted:	   76	   1.27

And I'm doing my usually routine, daily-doubles for all my tanks in garage then pick the tank of the day (yesterday was arty, Lorri 51).

Dude its actually the oposite... I found that AVERAGE damage is much more counted in the new effi formula then in WIN6. Just look at Loitumas signature. He does much less average damage, but has much much higher WIN6 rating.

mondog #10 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

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It's why noobmeter will never take off like WNX recently has. The guys who make WNX publish the equation for it, which gives it validity.
To be honest though, no system is going to be any good until WG start putting the stat for damage done while spotting in the API and Dossier cache.

View PostDoomas, on 18 February 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

MOre trolling with tier 6-4 companies more win rate and so on.

Not really. In a Tier 6 company you've got X amount of hit points (you'll never have more than a given amount because they're Tier 6 tanks) and if you've got a good team they'll be spread out - I do less damage in companies than randoms for instance.

Trolling in randoms is where you'll be able to get the extra points because if you get lucky, you'll take your M4 derp into a Tier 7 match, where you'll have the potential to rack up much more damage. Of cause, a tank with 460HP and no armour in a Tier 7 match in itself takes skill to get allot of damage. Derp guns are OP at Tier V when they're in good hands but against Tier 7's, you're two shots to a tank you can't even see, let along penetrate.

Doomas #11 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

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View Postmondog, on 18 February 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

It's why noobmeter will never take off like WNX recently has. The guys who make WNX publish the equation for it, which gives it validity.
To be honest though, no system is going to be any good until WG start putting the stat for damage done while spotting in the API and Dossier cache.



Not really. In a Tier 6 company you've got X amount of hit points (you'll never have more than a given amount because they're Tier 6 tanks) and if you've got a good team they'll be spread out - I do less damage in companies than randoms for instance.

Trolling in randoms is where you'll be able to get the extra points because if you get lucky, you'll take your M4 derp into a Tier 7 match, where you'll have the potential to rack up much more damage. Of cause, a tank with 460HP and no armour in a Tier 7 match in itself takes skill to get allot of damage. Derp guns are OP at Tier V when they're in good hands but against Tier 7's, you're two shots to a tank you can't even see, let along penetrate.
Yep i see a lot of trololo with derbs guns, they have most of the time +60%. Take sherman: 5 shots ~2k dmg +4 kills - its easy mode. And you will have fantastic wn6 raiting.

CaptainMastiff #12 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

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View Postmondog, on 18 February 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

It's why noobmeter will never take off like WNX recently has. The guys who make WNX publish the equation for it, which gives it validity.
To be honest though, no system is going to be any good until WG start putting the stat for damage done while spotting in the API and Dossier cache.

Though that is the exact same reason why I don't take Eff or WN6 seriously, because it is an openly known formula its open for exploitation. In the end if you go out of your way to improve it you are not necessarily improving gameplay. For example I had WoT Statistics loaded to see how I was doing on restoring my Tiger I. I noticed my account wide stats were all going up (averages) yet my Eff rate continues to drop.... Then one game I AFK (phone) come back fire off 4 shells and reset the base + Defender = 10,000 Eff :|

Shuko #13 Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:57 PM

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View PostIoituma, on 18 February 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Someone some time ago posted a graph showing that efficiency doesn't scale well along tiers and for a similar player will give better rating at low or high tier.

WN6 has the same problem, but maybe not as big as with Eff. I know they've included a tier penalty in WN6, but in practice I've seen people playing tier 1 getting 3k rating without any once in a life time moves. While getting the same rating at tier 10 requires 4-4.5k DpB and 2.5-3 KpB. Yes, not impossible, but point being, owning red tier 1 noobs is much easier.

Kryna #14 Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:02 PM

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Hello it is new ER

New EF differences:

- gives a lot less points for low tier dmg
- gives nearly twice more points for frags
- gives a bit less points for spotting
- gives a lot less points for capping if you cap a lot, if you cap avarage below 2 points you get more, 2 cap point give exact value as old and more give a lot less effi per point
- decapping is same

WN6 take into account win ratio and lower your rating if you play low tiers more(<6)

Exact formulas if you want analize:

ER(new)

DAMAGE * (10 / (TIER + 2)) * (0.23 + 2*TIER / 100) +
FRAGS * 250 +
SPOT * 150 +
log(CAP + 1,1.732) * 150 +
DEF * 150;

WN6:

(1240 - 1040 / TIER_N^ 0.164 * FRAGS +
DAMAGE * 530 / (184 * exp(0.24 * TIER) + 130) +
SPOT * 125 +
DEF * 100 +
((185 / (0.17 + exp((WINRATE - 35) * -0.134))) - 500) * 0.45 +
(6 - TIER_N) * -60

FadetoB1ack #15 Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:08 PM

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View Postlonigus, on 18 February 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Yes that confirms my post. The lower the avg tier the more XVM efficiency suffers.

Which also your signature is the best example ever.
I would aggree. The problem I have is that all these stats show the overall stats of the player rather than how he actually performs. For instance by looking at loituma's signature, you can see that his last 60 day stats are roughly the same as his overall stats, whereas for me there is an absolutely massive gap. In the game therefore the XVM would under-judge me so to speak, I do not see many players with the same issue so I could only wonder if something was to be done about it. I value actual player's ability not how he/she played a few months ago, but how he/she plays now and that is one of the biggest current fails in XVM still present.

Dewirix #16 Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

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EDIT: Major mistake in last table and graph - blame my lack of Excel skills this morning. I've updated the post accordingly

To see how the above pans out in practice, let's look at an average player, who we'll give the randomly selected name of Bob.

Here are Bob's stats per battle:
Kills: 1
Spots: 1
Cap: 1
Def: 1
Damage: 1000
Win ratio: 50.00%
Average tier = 5

WN6 rating
Damage: 500*530/((184*EXP(0.24*5))+130) = 357.67
Kills: (1240-1040/((min[5,6])^0.164)*1 = 441.27
Spots: 1*125 = 125
Cap: Zero
Def: Min[1,2,2]*100 = 100
WR: ((185/(0.17+EXP((50-35)*-0.134)))-500)*0.45 = 48.86
Tier adjustment: (6-min[5,6])*-60 = -60
Overall: 1013

New ER
Damage: 500*(10/(5+2))*(0.23+2(5/100)) = 235.71
Kills: 250*1 = 250
Spots: 1* 150 = 150
Cap: Log[base 1.732](1+1)*150 = 189.29
Def: 1*150 = 150
WR: Zero
Tier adjustment: Zero
Overall: 975

Note that if Bob's average tier was 6 rather than 5 he'd have the following
WN6: 1031 (+18)
New ER: 958 (-17)

Part of the brief behind WN6 was to minimise the impact that statpadding in lower tiers has on overall rating. For this reason, performance at lower tiers is penalised.

The graph below shows how Bob's WN6 and new Efficiency Rating (NER) would change assuming he consistently performed to the same level in every tier:
Posted Image

You'll note that NER declines consistently between tiers, whereas WN6 climbs rapidly between tiers 1 and 2, then more slowly to a peak at tier 6, then drops off sharply.

For experience players, the penalties WN6 imposes on lower tiers is a reasonable means of reaching its design goals, but new players will suffer since their time in the low tiers is part of the learning process rather than an attempt to game the system.

Let's look at the figures another way. Suppose that instead of doing 500 damage at every tier, Bob did damage approximately equivalent to the hitpoints of the tanks he drives (lights in the early tiers, then mediums). The precise figures are given in the table below:
Posted Image

This gives us a graph as follows:
Posted Image

From the above, we can see that both NER and WN6 suffer from rating inflation, but whereas NER suffers most at higher tiers, WN6 suffers most until tier 6-7, after which it gives a similar rating for doing your tank's hitpoints worth of damage. This suggests that for new players, NER is a better rating at lower tiers (there's little difference between the scores for tiers 1-5), while WN6 is better at the upper end of the scale (scores for 7-10 are roughly level).

Both WN6 and NER reward playing in the higher tiers: under NER, a player doing his tank's hitpoints worth of damage at tier 10 with 1 cap point, def point, kill and spot per battle will get a score of 1456, not too far off being a great player, while the same performance at tier 5 would only score 916, just about into the average range. This effect is less pronounced with WN6, but even here a player with the same performance at tier 10 is rated 300 points higher than they would be at tier 5.

Less_Than_Three #17 Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

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Here is a post from the creators of wn6 on the XVM forum, trying to get wn6 included into XVM; I found it pretty interesting;
http://www.koreanran...тив/#entry31093

Platypusbill #18 Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:14 PM

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WN6 is much easier to raise by plain and simple good damage dealing and such.

But to be honest, I think the "Unicum" bracket should be raised a bit, my recent performance certainly isn't on par. Unicum skill ratings should IMO correlate with a roughly 60% win ratio.

Edited by Platypusbill, 18 February 2013 - 02:14 PM.


Platypusbill #19 Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

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A discrepancy in Eff and WN6 might also occur because of a low capratio- does anybody know what the average is, though?

Dewirix #20 Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

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Just updated my post because I'm an idiot :)




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