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Why nerf the VK2801?!


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Poll: Why nerf the VK2801?! (94 members have cast votes)

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Should WG nerf the Vk2801 as they do in 8.4 update?

  1. Yes! (12 votes [12.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.37%

  2. No! (85 votes [87.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 87.63%

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Ther200 #1 Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:04 PM

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Why does WG nerf the vk2801 (and leo and luchs) so hard?!
As it looks now, the VK2801 moves up 1 tier, makes it almost always face tier 10 tanks.
How can you make the tank 2 tonnes heavier while he gets 10mm less armor!?
And at last even decreasing the top speed from 72 to 60 !

I have played 600 battles with my vk2801 and loved it i also got a t50-2. Why does i get nerfed comparing it with other tier 5 scout, it wasnt even better then those. It was biggest scout, with the poorest acceleration and a bad ammo rack. I loved it because of the derp gun you could use against high tier tanks. Now WG will nerf the vk2801 on the things he is already weak on. Vk2801 wasnt a good scout then you should choose the t50-2 or chaffee. The vk2801 is just a fun tank that shouldnt be nerfed.

People let this not happen...

Srry for my bad english im dutch.

War_of_Genius #2 Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:07 PM

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MM has been changed, too for VK, it handles like a regular Tier 6 light now.
T-50-2 and chaffee wil get the same treatment as well. There will be no more Tier 5 end of the line tanks in the future.

Edited by General_Jack_D_Ripper, 18 February 2013 - 08:07 PM.


Felipki #3 Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:11 PM

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General_Jack So chaffee will get speed around 45 ? Ehm, bullshit. I just hope they will tier up and get more health, than 560 - 580. Nothing much.

SqTH #4 Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

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View PostTher200, on 18 February 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

As it looks now, the VK2801 moves up 1 tier, makes it almost always face tier 10 tanks.
Wrong. Changing it's tier doen't change the MM.
And, they also changed it's MM so it wont fight tier 9 and 10 anymore.

And those nerf are for the next tier7 german light scout, not because of the gun.

War_of_Genius #5 Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:16 PM

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View PostFelipki, on 18 February 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

General_Jack So chaffee will get speed around 45 ? Ehm, bullshit. I just hope they will tier up and get more health, than 560 - 580. Nothing much.

Believe what u want to believe. If u want to cry out 'wuah they always nerf germans." its fine, doesn't make u right, though.

builder396 #6 Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:16 PM

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its ridiculous, the t-50-2 is far better in terms of scouting, as is the T-50 compared to the leo, sure thing. on the other had german scouts TEND to be closer to battle tanks due to their heavier armor and armament, however due to their matchmaking as scouts they cant perform that role of fighting as theyre heavily outlcassed, so they have to scout most of the time, the thing they are bad at due to their speed. so in essence german scouts are already on the border of being underpowered, and now theyre being nerfed AND put up a tier? screw you too WG.

War_of_Genius #7 Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:20 PM

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View Postbuilder396, on 18 February 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

its ridiculous, the t-50-2 is far better in terms of scouting, as is the T-50 compared to the leo, sure thing. on the other had german scouts TEND to be closer to battle tanks due to their heavier armor and armament, however due to their matchmaking as scouts they cant perform that role of fighting as theyre heavily outlcassed, so they have to scout most of the time, the thing they are bad at due to their speed. so in essence german scouts are already on the border of being underpowered, and now theyre being nerfed AND put up a tier? screw you too WG.

VK2801 unerdpowered? R u serious? Dealing more than 300dmg per shot to each and every tank (granted, German top tier Heavies and TDs can only be penetrated in the ammunition loading hatch at the back) is underpowered?

And again, they r changing the whole system, so Chaffee and T-50-2 will be nerfed as well. Get informed, or stay ignorant, your choice.

Ther200 #8 Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:23 PM

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View PostSqTH, on 18 February 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

Wrong. Changing it's tier doen't change the MM.
And, they also changed it's MM so it wont fight tier 9 and 10 anymore.

And those nerf are for the next tier7 german light scout, not because of the gun.

I dont understand why they nerf speed, becauase it is already bad on its speed it was never good in speed, the top is ok but it took 3times as long too accelerate as the t50-2 and not mentioning the turning speed

Tymekiller #9 Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:05 PM

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Firstly, let me get it out of the way that I am a VK 2801 driver. I love it, it's awesome, and I don't intend to sell it even after the nerfs. I haven't played WoT as much as some of you other folks have. This is my opinion on why it's getting nerfed, and I think the nerfs are really justified.

Why nerf the VK2801? To bring it in line with other Tier 6 lights, that's why. This is all in preparation for the expansion of the german light tank branch of the tree that will happen in either 8.5 or beyond. Expect similar changes to the Chaffee and T-50-2 in future patches.

It's losing its' dedicated, special scout status and will no longer go up against Battle Tiers 11 and 12 (I hope everyone knows what Battle Tiers are) and we should now treat it as any normal Tier 6 light.

The tier 6 lights are as follows: VK 2801, T21, 59-19 and AMX 12t. Let's compare these four side by side, without taking the 8.4 patch changes into account.

Speed Limit:

VK 2801 - 72km/h   
T21 - 56.3km/h   
59-19 - 60km/h
AMX 12t - 60km/h

VK wins.



Armor values and hitpoints:

VK 2801 - Hull Armor  60/40/30 mm / Turret Armor 50/30/30 mm
T21 - Hull Armor  28/25/22 mm / Turret Armor 28/25/25 mm
59-19 - Hull Armor  30/20/20 mm / Turret Armor 45/30/20 mm
AMX 12t - Hull Armor  50/20/15 mm/ Turret Armor 40/20/20 mm

VK wins.


View Range:

VK 2801 - 390m
T21 - 390m
59-19 - 380m   
AMX 12t - 380m

VK and T21 win.


'Best' weaponry:

VK 2801 - 10,5 cm KwK 42 L/28  DMG:  350/350/410 HP PEN:  64/150/53 mm  
T21 - 76 mm Gun M1A2 DMG: 115/110/185 HP PEN:  128/177/38 mm
59-19 - 76 mm 54-76TG (autoloader) DMG:  115/115/165 HP PEN: 85/106/38 mm
AMX 12t - 75 mm SA50  DMG:  135/135/175 HP PEN: 144/202/38 mm

You decide for yourself which one has the best gun.


When it comes to hitpoints, they are all around 600-ish HP. The only place the VK2801 is really meh at is how sluggish it is compared to the other scouts. But then, in return for that it can ram artillery, other scouts and some mediums as well. Compared to the other Tier 6 scouts, if the VK 2801 was moved to Tier 6 right now, without any changes (and some of you are asking for buffs),the VK 2801 would be... a little OP.

Now, you can apply the proposed changes to the VK 2801 in 8.4, and compare it against the three other Tier 6 lights. What happens? It's still pretty freaking good, in my honest opinion. Armor is still the best of the four, it still has the best gun, it's maximum speed is the best along with the AMX 12t and 59-19.

And so, they're nerfing it.

Any questions?

Edited by Tymekiller, 18 February 2013 - 09:17 PM.


Kyphe #10 Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

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VK already is by far the biggest tank of the bunch with the lowest camo rating making it the easiest to spot and the easiest to hit.

has the second worst turning with just 44deg.

has the worst View range.

has the second worst gun elevation.

has the worst radio.

Edited by Kyphe, 18 February 2013 - 10:05 PM.


Ther200 #11 Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:11 PM

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Tymekiller,

nice story but, by acceleration and maneauvring vk2801 will lose it against the other tanks, the 72 top wont say so much.

not mentioning the weak ammo rack and other modules the vk has.

Edited by Ther200, 18 February 2013 - 10:20 PM.


Tasiorowski #12 Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:05 AM

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Well, I dont poses VK ( grindind through Leopard so far ) but if they nerf top speed but this top speed will be maitainable and easy to reach, it will be better. As I reed those NERF topics, i was scared that I just decided to griind quite interesting tank that has some kind of "elite" status ( just like my beloved chaffiee ) and its gonna loose it. So I can only tell as VK oponent. While playing in chaffiee, the VK has slugish acceleration and traverse speed, which gives other lights quite big advantage in chasing around buildings, rocks and other obstackles. The armor was bouncy, the most of ANY light tanks ingame. Don't know what armor NERF brings here, but I think it will still ding many unprecised shots. As it takes to maximum speed, it seems quite similat to Hellcat. I played Hellcat and was able to achieve top speed only on going down from slopes, or it was achieved at the end of the map, after ~ 30 second run. So to achevie its top speed, it needed airfield or so. But I would realy trade those 12 km/h that are rarely seen to stable 60 km/h that is achieved fast. All in all it is sad, that those 3 special tanks, that were very hard to master but if they were, they were very rewarding in terms of EXP, fun and feeling about making a great contribution to team victory. Now they will be just "pass it through tank" like T21, some kind of soulless ligh tank in american tree. Very simillar to Chaffiee on soft stats, BUT felt quite different and poorer in fact.

Krzystos #13 Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

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View PostTymekiller, on 18 February 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

the VK 2801 would be... a little OP.

you should also compare the repair cost (still very high at tier 6)
also acceleration and maneauvring(!)

the cammo value and how big is the tank.

and the most important: we will always have such problems because WG constantly change already released tanks. We should have less tanks,  but maybe with longer testing period, so when we buy it - we know that this tank will stay unchanged.
I'm almost sure the new 8 tier light will be great at the beginning and after some time will be nerfed. This makes this game not so enjoyable.

savizudis #14 Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:36 PM

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View PostKrzystos, on 25 February 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

you should also compare the repair cost (still very high at tier 6)
also acceleration and maneauvring(!)

the cammo value and how big is the tank.

and the most important: we will always have such problems because WG constantly change already released tanks. We should have less tanks,  but maybe with longer testing period, so when we buy it - we know that this tank will stay unchanged.
I'm almost sure the new 8 tier light will be great at the beginning and after some time will be nerfed. This makes this game not so enjoyable.

thats why this game isnt any different form any other "free online" games ; then i came to this game years aggo, id dint noticed such things untill it hit my beloved tank ; they do this on purpose, - to get newly released tank u need $$, and that one u cant achieve fast (unless u spend gold) and then u get new tank oh good is so good lets trade soe gold more for better crew ; here comes new patch tanks are hitt nerfed ; bye bye fun ; lets buy another one new op tank etc etc

but vk is old fart from old times that was already ok..

as i think they neded only ONLY make some better match making for vk..

Selous #15 Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:05 PM

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VK2801  still gets in battles with tier 9/10 tanks , and yes its a pile of shit in those battles, t50-2 is still king `suprise suprise`  (sic)

being in a tier 6 match seems pretty rare , in fact this seems to get exactly the MM it used to get , often being the only tier 6 tank with all others ( except arty )  being 7-10

seems to be put in as a scout ( as it used to be ) a role it fails dismally at.

Edited by Selous, 13 March 2013 - 05:26 PM.


beercritch #16 Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:01 AM

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View PostTymekiller, on 18 February 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Firstly, let me get it out of the way that I am a VK 2801 driver. I love it, it's awesome, and I don't intend to sell it even after the nerfs. I haven't played WoT as much as some of you other folks have. This is my opinion on why it's getting nerfed, and I think the nerfs are really justified.

Why nerf the VK2801? To bring it in line with other Tier 6 lights, that's why. This is all in preparation for the expansion of the german light tank branch of the tree that will happen in either 8.5 or beyond. Expect similar changes to the Chaffee and T-50-2 in future patches.

It's losing its' dedicated, special scout status and will no longer go up against Battle Tiers 11 and 12 (I hope everyone knows what Battle Tiers are) and we should now treat it as any normal Tier 6 light.

The tier 6 lights are as follows: VK 2801, T21, 59-19 and AMX 12t. Let's compare these four side by side, without taking the 8.4 patch changes into account.

Speed Limit:

VK 2801 - 72km/h   
T21 - 56.3km/h   
59-19 - 60km/h
AMX 12t - 60km/h

VK wins.



Armor values and hitpoints:

VK 2801 - Hull Armor  60/40/30 mm / Turret Armor 50/30/30 mm
T21 - Hull Armor  28/25/22 mm / Turret Armor 28/25/25 mm
59-19 - Hull Armor  30/20/20 mm / Turret Armor 45/30/20 mm
AMX 12t - Hull Armor  50/20/15 mm/ Turret Armor 40/20/20 mm

VK wins.


View Range:

VK 2801 - 390m
T21 - 390m
59-19 - 380m   
AMX 12t - 380m

VK and T21 win.


'Best' weaponry:

VK 2801 - 10,5 cm KwK 42 L/28  DMG:  350/350/410 HP PEN:  64/150/53 mm  
T21 - 76 mm Gun M1A2 DMG: 115/110/185 HP PEN:  128/177/38 mm
59-19 - 76 mm 54-76TG (autoloader) DMG:  115/115/165 HP PEN: 85/106/38 mm
AMX 12t - 75 mm SA50  DMG:  135/135/175 HP PEN: 144/202/38 mm

You decide for yourself which one has the best gun.


When it comes to hitpoints, they are all around 600-ish HP. The only place the VK2801 is really meh at is how sluggish it is compared to the other scouts. But then, in return for that it can ram artillery, other scouts and some mediums as well. Compared to the other Tier 6 scouts, if the VK 2801 was moved to Tier 6 right now, without any changes (and some of you are asking for buffs),the VK 2801 would be... a little OP.

Now, you can apply the proposed changes to the VK 2801 in 8.4, and compare it against the three other Tier 6 lights. What happens? It's still pretty freaking good, in my honest opinion. Armor is still the best of the four, it still has the best gun, it's maximum speed is the best along with the AMX 12t and 59-19.

And so, they're nerfing it.

Any questions?

Yes - I have a question.

The tank speed has also been nerfed to only 60kmh - not the original 72, but by adding extra weight the acceleration and manoeuvrability is now so poor that you cant out "spin" a jtiger - is this "working as intended"?

Also the VK from experience doesnt "ding" any hits it takes AND lets not forget the nerf to the 10.5 aim time and accuracy. And there also appears to be a rise in the cammo factor according to some sources in these forums which is really bad for a scout.

In saying this I am not completely sold that the nerf to the VK wasnt justified, but I baught the tank based on what it was, spent massive credits and REAL MONEY to get it to where I wanted it to be and then WG moved the goal posts and turned it into an also ran and what do I get out of it?? not much more than a fancy hood ornament in my garage.

As they did with the French lights, the changes should not have happened until the whole tree was ready, and then the VK drivers who have been loyal to WG, who have spent real money in the game to fund the future of WOT should have got some sort of compensation for their tanks being electronically castrated.

Edited by beercritch, 14 March 2013 - 02:03 AM.


wims80 #17 Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:28 AM

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View PostSelous, on 13 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

VK2801  still gets in battles with tier 9/10 tanks , and yes its a pile of shit in those battles, t50-2 is still king `suprise suprise`  (sic)

being in a tier 6 match seems pretty rare , in fact this seems to get exactly the MM it used to get , often being the only tier 6 tank with all others ( except arty )  being 7-10

seems to be put in as a scout ( as it used to be ) a role it fails dismally at.
Battle tiers. It gets into the same games as the AMX 12T. It's a far, far better tank than the AMX 12T. It's still OP at tier 6, even after the nerfs. It can sometimes even get amazing matchmaking where it's the only tier 6 tank in the team, that would never happen with the old VK (http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ULu40WbW9PY)

Znail #18 Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:57 PM

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View PostTymekiller, on 18 February 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

'Best' weaponry:

VK 2801 - 10,5 cm KwK 42 L/28  DMG:  350/350/410 HP PEN:  64/150/53 mm  
T21 - 76 mm Gun M1A2 DMG: 115/110/185 HP PEN:  128/177/38 mm
59-19 - 76 mm 54-76TG (autoloader) DMG:  115/115/165 HP PEN: 85/106/38 mm
AMX 12t - 75 mm SA50  DMG:  135/135/175 HP PEN: 144/202/38 mm

You decide for yourself which one has the best gun.


When it comes to hitpoints, they are all around 600-ish HP. The only place the VK2801 is really meh at is how sluggish it is compared to the other scouts. But then, in return for that it can ram artillery, other scouts and some mediums as well. Compared to the other Tier 6 scouts, if the VK 2801 was moved to Tier 6 right now, without any changes (and some of you are asking for buffs),the VK 2801 would be... a little OP.

Now, you can apply the proposed changes to the VK 2801 in 8.4, and compare it against the three other Tier 6 lights. What happens? It's still pretty freaking good, in my honest opinion. Armor is still the best of the four, it still has the best gun, it's maximum speed is the best along with the AMX 12t and 59-19.

And so, they're nerfing it.

Any questions?
The 'best' gun for the VK 2901 is the 7,5 cm KwK 40 L/48  DMG:  110/110/175 HP PEN;  110/158/38 mm
And yes, it's much worse then any of the rest of the tier 7 lights guns.
The main advantages of the old VK 2801 was the derp and the high max speed.
With both of those nerfed so is there no upsides and only downsides to using the VK 2801 over other alternatives.

savizudis #19 Posted 05 April 2013 - 04:41 PM

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View PostZnail, on 17 March 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

The 'best' gun for the VK 2901 is the 7,5 cm KwK 40 L/48  DMG:  110/110/175 HP PEN;  110/158/38 mm
And yes, it's much worse then any of the rest of the tier 7 lights guns.
The main advantages of the old VK 2801 was the derp and the high max speed.
With both of those nerfed so is there no upsides and only downsides to using the VK 2801 over other alternatives.

And here comes in a big problem wiht MM. VK put in against high tiers (yes it happens, and its often), with 7.5 gun, - gues what happens then ? We miserably suck with vk... One hit and theres no vk. Its a easy target, u cant pass true even at long ranges then u are targeted by high tiers... Its over.

Well i wery wery liked old system then this one small 5tier goes near bye big brothers, and still manages to do some shit. And now then MM puts to some retarded MM wiht some low tiered tanks... It feels sucky. And im not happy taht i can kill more tanks at closer range... Sorry i cant do shit at ranges taht i suposed and were doing at old 10 gun, at much more longer ranges. Now this shit just misses, 50-70% shots goes wasted.

Ok i take 7.5 and ok im in agsints all 6-7tiers... Fuu*** this 7.5... its like puting water gun in... Ofc after nerf im not playing and not buying gold ammo. So no im not talking about this kind of firepower. And i wont buy untill tank be renerfed.

Still playing and still dying more, and i dont care. For this nerf not only im suffereing sufering whole 14 unlucky people that are put with me in batles every time (no im not suicider who jumps and dies, only dumb vk2801 players play like that...).


And what and why nerfed this tank is till unaswered. Blabla on shit about 8.5 8.6 and new german lights - i dont see these tanks and VK already nerfed. Why not nerf then these tanks will be in game ? I dont take this bait.

waganaut #20 Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:07 AM

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View PostSqTH, on 18 February 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:


And those nerf are for the next tier7 german light scout, not because of the gun.
heh heh, the awful panther, such a good fast tiny little tank




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