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M36 Jackson

M36 Jackson AmericanTankDestroyer

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Steel_Badger_ #1 Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:06 AM

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I'm due to upgrade from the M10 Wolverine soon, but it's struck me that I don't recall ever having seen a M36 Jackson in game. Hellcats on the other hand are everywhere. What information I've read so far say nothing negative about the Jackson, but for peace of mind I'd like a bit of feedback from players who have used it.

Any experienced opinions greatly appreciated.

Walker28361 #2 Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:10 AM

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Very good TD, slower than Hellcat but better armoured - be warned, the 114mm quoted front is the lower plate only! Depends if you want speed or armour, same gun for both. Enjoy whichever you pick!  :Smile_great:

Steel_Badger_ #3 Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:17 AM

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Tanks for the tip! :)

Anyone else?

Tankfriend #4 Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

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I'm in pretty much the same situation - just switched over to the M36 myself. Only had a few battles with it so far, but it seems to perform just like the M10 with better armour, similar mobility and the chance to upgrade the gun, so I'll make a guess and say it will be just as enjoyable as the M10, which, imho, is "a lot".  :Smile_great:
Haven't driven the Hellcat, yet, either, but I can see why it's so popular. Armour is getting less and less important with more powerful guns and gold ammo for credits, so people favour mobility, which the Hellcat seems to provide a lot of.

Steel_Badger_ #5 Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:53 PM

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Good point - would explain the apparent bias toward the Hellcat.

Thanks for your input :)

Listy #6 Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:29 PM

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I've owned both, and the M36 is posibly my best all round TD. I have others with better indvidual stats, but the M36 is my best of all combined.
Its one of my few tanks I've actually named, and for me a tank has to be an awesome keeper for me to name it.

I would note: I got rid of my M-18 simply becuase they filled the same role in my garage, and one of them had to go. My M36 crew were better, and so.
I've had some of my best battles in the M36. For example: 5x old style KV's (so KV-2 turret +107mm gun), a Hetzer and an Pz38NA Vs me as last survivor. 7 kills later, one slightly bent M36, a heap of EXP and one huge ammo bill!

The only thing I sometimes feel it could do with is a tiny bit more gun depression, but its not that noticable. According to the Wiki its -10, but I think that is a mistake, it feels more like a -9 or -8. Of course this is entirely subjective, so I could be wrong.

Camo is actaully very good, not so much the base camo factor, but because you don't need to turn your hull to re-aim. Of couse if you're tracking a fast close target you can turn the hull to keep guns on. The base camo is good enough though.

The gun is a good all rounder. Fires fast enough with good enough accuracy at long range. On the flip side what about incoming fire? With the second turret you have a good chunk more HP than the M18, and are more resistant to HE shells. I've been kept alive by less than the amount the turret adds on several occasions.
The big question though, I suspect, is the armour. Is the 114mm worth it? Well the lower hull, being a Sherman, is 3-4 inches thick. the upper plate is of course 114mm. With the turret you can find some intresting positions that do extreme angling of the armour, with only hte front plate and half hte Turret exposed. Meaning if you get spotted you can bounce.
However the best defence is don't get spotted! I do find that in the second part of the game, when a sizable force of both sides has been killed the extra armour and HP does allow the M36 to push forward, with at least some degree of sucess. In the M18 you're just asking for a burning wreck if you try that.

Overall I love my M36, and short of WG.net pulling a Marder II (yes, I equate the M36 to a pre-nerf Marder II's power) on it, Captain America will be staying in my garage.
Any thing else you'd like to know, then fire away.

Steel_Badger_ #7 Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

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Thanks Listy, a very reassuring post. Definitely going for it.
These posts just make me all the more confused as to why there aren't any out there - least ways in none of the matches I've played.
Perhaps when I actually enter tier VI that will change.

Btw; you say you give your tanks a name... wouldn't be 'Vera' would it?  :Smile_blinky:

Listy #8 Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

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View PostSteel_Badger_, on 24 February 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Thanks Listy, a very reassuring post. Definitely going for it.
These posts just make me all the more confused as to why there aren't any out there - least ways in none of the matches I've played.
Perhaps when I actually enter tier VI that will change.

Btw; you say you give your tanks a name... wouldn't be 'Vera' would it?  :Smile_blinky:

Only my very favoritest tanks get a name (with the exception of the Chaffee). My Black Prince got the name Dreadnought, after a 70 hit steel wall... seemed applicable somehow. It was confirmed by getting over 6000 EXP in a game last night (thats a standard account BTW).

Back to the M36. No idea why not more are seen. I suspect many people are just blinded by the Speed number, without thinking about exactly what it means, especially in relation to the armour triangle. The ammount of M18's I've seen thinking they're light tanks with 90mm guns is huge, and subsequently the ammount of total *Hugging* idiots I see is correspondingly huge. You'll have a hard time resisting the urge to deliver a 90mm solid at 823 m/s if they're on your side.
I've got a replay at home somewhere of two M18's trying to charge the Road side of Prokhovka (Or however you spell it!) after 2-3 heavy tanks tried to push up and got slaughtered. I was sitting there thinking "I can see their ammo racks from here, and I won't be able to play for two days due to work anyway..."

"Pro's drive M36's" should be a bumper sticker...
:Smile_veryhappy:

Dutchmul #9 Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:29 AM

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Just rebought the slugger to try and improve my performance in it as I never really thought I got to grips with it in my first 60 battles with it when it was first introduced.

Having a ball in it so far,  although the 90mm still has some strange misses, fully zeroed in middle of target and bam, hits rocks in front/to the side of the target, very annoying but I'm starting to compensate a bit at distance for it.

You see a lot more when you buy one, its a bit strange, rarely saw one in my cromwell but since I bought a slugger I see them all the time, but hellcats are far more prevelant.

It's a good td, I like to sit back deep and snipe with my td's so I prefer slugger to hellcat.

Trt_Smrt #10 Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:26 AM

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M36 is good. It's speed keep you alive actually, as it prevents you from charging too far too early, only to realize that no one is there with you to back you up. It can be seen every time in pubs... Hellcats runnin' away at 70 km/h without proper support and back-up route. Jackson on the other hand can't get that heroic, therefore you will be far more useful in what you should do - support heavies. Find some high ground  park around 400-500m from the chokepoint and wait for them to lit up. Then fire away your 90mm and pick them one by one. A bit sluggish, but still a lot more maneuverable than the Hellcat when comes to traverse speed, keeping you safe from fast scouts wich happen to appear  50m from your position.

Armor is good, but don't expect miracles. Still, can survive at least 4-5 hits which is much more than M18. Angling armor uphill increases your effective armor thickness so use this at all times. Sometimes, at the end of the round I miss Hellcat's speed but than again... it happens a lot that i'm still alive because i don't have this speed. Funny.. ain't it?  :Smile_veryhappy:

One last thing... i think that the grind for M3 gun would be a bit easier in M18 as you can flank your enemies faster. I'm struggling with it on Jackson as M1A2 although beast for tier 5, can't really keep up in tiers 6-7... once you get it - the fun starts.

If you can (and you should), try them both. Wolverine is so much fun and you can unlock them in a matter of days :D

VeryRisky #11 Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:10 AM

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I'm looking at getting a Jackson before the Hellcat as the grind on the 90mm is a bit shorter just tracks, gun.  However I'm so happy with the Wolverine the Jackson seems like a good place to go.  Also I've had a Jackson bounce a HEAT round off the M4 so it's  glass cannon.

As Trt_Smrt says you can do a lot better if you hang back at the starrt.  Some of my better games inthe Wolverine have been where I've dithered over where to comitt before coming in to support from range.

deveen23 #12 Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

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I think it's the usual WOT thing, people hear how awesome M18 is and most go after it. It can go 70+ km/h so it's gotta be fun, right? M36 is not so sexy... However, there is really nothing wrong with M36. It's less mobile than the Hellcat, which sometimes isn't so bad cause you won't rush in trouble so fast. You don't get too much armor in return, but at least you won't be penetrated by tier 4 scouts. Gun mantlet will also give you some protection, I bounced IS-3 shots twice yesterday and lower front hull will usually bounce shots too. In comparison to M18, you also have 20 HP more, enclosed turret to help against arty and quite a bit of more ammo (47 vs 30 IIRC).

There is also one detail that probably didn't go to M36 favor: it used to have -6 gun depression, which was quite bad and probably made a lot of players sell it. Luckily, they fixed it several patches ago to historically -10 so you can use it as most other American tanks, utilizing terrain and keeping your hull hidden. The gun itself is very good, probably one of the best balanced guns in the entire game with which you'll be able to fight against most tanks you encounter. Very rarely you'll feel the need to use premium ammo.

Bottom line, it's a very potent TD at tier 6, probably offers less versatility than M18, but probably more of a classic TD than M18. Pimp it up with rammer, camo and binos, train your crew with camo and you'll be able to stay hidden and fire away.

Listy #13 Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

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View Postdeveen23, on 25 February 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

[..] you also have 20 HP more,[...].

The Second turret also adds more HP.

View Postdeveen23, on 25 February 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

There is also one detail that probably didn't go to M36 favor: it used to have -6 gun depression, which was quite bad and probably made a lot of players sell it. Luckily, they fixed it several patches ago to historically -10 so you can use it as most other American tanks, utilizing terrain and keeping your hull hidden.

Ahh thanks, that explains my confusion. I must had missed the notes.

View Postdeveen23, on 25 February 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Pimp it up with rammer, camo and binos, train your crew with camo and you'll be able to stay hidden and fire away.

Personally I replace the Bino's with a Gun laying drive. I know that's against contemporary wisdom, and its the only TD were I don't fit Camo + Bino's, and its also my best TD. Now that I think about it this might a reason why?

deveen23 #14 Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

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View PostListy, on 25 February 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

The Second turret also adds more HP.



Ahh thanks, that explains my confusion. I must had missed the notes.



Personally I replace the Bino's with a Gun laying drive. I know that's against contemporary wisdom, and its the only TD were I don't fit Camo + Bino's, and its also my best TD. Now that I think about it this might a reason why?

HP, I was referring to top setups (590 vs 570), dunno otherwise...

8.0 update was very kind to M36, it got it's proper gun depression and the new physics also made it faster moving down the slopes, which comes handy, especially on the reverse.

I don't know, I always go with binos on my TD's. I play them as supporters and there's usually enough time to aim so I'd rather have 25% more view range.

Trt_Smrt #15 Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:16 PM

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Man.. got the M3 gun and it makes a difference. It's not that fun like Wolverine (or the Gods of MM aren't to kind these days), but still - it's very very fun to play. It's like a Hellcat that doesn't get you killed as you turn around and discover that you're 200m in front of everybody, facing the strike force coming from the least frequently used road. :)

I can take a beating too. Much more than Hell can. It dings few rounds per game and i usually get killed only after 8-10 shots received (as long as it's not KV-1s). Closed turret helps a lot with hiding your crew form artillery splashes. Gun is great - a lot better than it's on T20 and you can realy feel the increased precision. It's very dequate for it's tier and acc is great having in mind the distances from the enemy lines.

vmin #16 Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:30 PM

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i'd say if u liked M10 go M36. It almost same game style, both tank very similar. Hellcat....well u'll have u adapt. Liked slugger, nice tank, usualy fear em more than helllcats ( die very fast ).

Temptis #17 Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

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View PostListy, on 24 February 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

"Pro's drive M36's" should be a bumper sticker...
:Smile_veryhappy:

i want that one!

VeryRisky #18 Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

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I'm going to buy one of these soon possibly tonight.  I have the Top engine and radio ready but wondered how close the load limit is on the tracks?  Can I install Engine, Radio, Camo, NBinocs and possibly rammer without FreeXping them?

Tankfriend #19 Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:58 AM

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Basic suspension leaves you with ~600kg free load limit.
Upgrades cost you:
Radio: 10kg (110kg instead of 100kg)
Engine: 44kg (549kg instead of 515kg)
Binocs: 50kg
Camo net: 100kg
Rammer: 200kg
Gun upgrade: Priceless!  :Smile_trollface-3:

All in all, you should have some 196kg of load limit still free if you throw everything in there, but that's not enough to also upgrade the gun for 460kg.
You can calculate stuff like this easily if you take a look at the weight stats of tanks/upgrades and extra equipment:
http://wiki.worldoft....eu/M36_Jackson
http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/Equipment

VeryRisky #20 Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:49 PM

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Thanks, I had a look, thought it was ok, but wasn't sure if there was anything else I needed to allow for.  There will be quite a few battles before I get to the tracks and top gun but at least it has the top engine from the start.

I'm ausming the playstyle is as per the Wolverine which I like a lot.