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The effects of Improved Ventilation


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Eligius #21 Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

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View Postmagyshadow, on 28 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:



If you manage to find word useless in my post, or even indication that I said it's useless, I would be happy to provide you example.

I understand what you write :)
Basicly i mean how much better you fight specific role than allround role. If you have IS-3 what is allround tank (not best in any specific role, but can do all) can you say that little fast accuracy time is more important or better than slicly boost to all?

Usuall venttilation, rammer and GLD (or stabi) is all what you need. Everytime there is that venttilation.
So what is case when you really can say it's useless than some other eguip?

Temptis #22 Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

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+2.1-2.7 on 5 different crew professions + camo + repair sums up to a pretty decent total improvement.
added that it improves some aspects that can not be improved by other equipment pieces (accuracy, acceleration, traverse, reloadtime on autoloaders) ventilation is a valid piece of equipment for many tanks.
on tanks that reload faster than you can aim, one will favor ventilation over rammer (Churchil III)
on tanks that aim fast but reload slow, one will favor ventilation over gld (T32)
or you can use it to get 1 stat to it's maximum like viewrange/camo on scouts

magyshadow #23 Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:13 PM

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View PostEligius, on 28 February 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

I understand what you write :)
Basicly i mean how much better you fight specific role than allround role. If you have IS-3 what is allround tank (not best in any specific role, but can do all) can you say that little fast accuracy time is more important or better than slicly boost to all?

Usuall venttilation, rammer and GLD (or stabi) is all what you need. Everytime there is that venttilation.
So what is case when you really can say it's useless than some other eguip?

U persist on that "useless" word and you sound like you have some percentage of Improved ventilation sale. People are allowed to have different opinion you know?

But let's make you happy with an example........

You mentioned IS-3, it's been along time since I played it, but if I can remember correctly it's not all around tank it's a  brawler, so Rammer and GLD is a must, and now third slot..........
You will put ventilation for sure, but more aggressive players will put optics, players who like to fire from second line would take Vertical Stabilizer, and so on.

So perhaps if someone thinks that Improved Ventilation is not mother of all equipment hurts your feeling, but that's no reason to twist words just to make your point. It's a free world you can put Ventilation on all 3 slots if you like, but don't force others to do so.

maxcromwell #24 Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:22 PM

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View PostAlwaysBanned, on 28 February 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

it makes your e-peen 5% larger

I have the Improved Ventilation Class 3 for that.

View PostOnline_Rambo, on 28 February 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

Interesting data maxcromwell. In your opinion, and after those measurements, is it worth it to install the improved vents?

After these measurements I am going to uninstall it from my Chaffee. But I agree with some of the other posters who say that they´re well worth having if your crew isn´t fully trained and I definitely agree that on tanks with longer reload time they are very useful.
But I want to instal a VertStab on the Chaffee and need to free up a space. After seeing just how little the Vents improve my tank, I´m going to make the swap. I know every little bit helps (and look at my stats, I can use every little bit of help I can get) but the 20% smaller aiming circle trumps a few meters of extra hide/spot time (things most important to a scout).

View Postelseba, on 28 February 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

With the binocular telescope you spoted him while standing still?
And with the coated opticts you spoted him while moving?

Just want to confirmed if possible what I've been learning from other places.

Yes. While moving towards him I was able to spot him from 127m. and 124m with/without vents respectively.
While moving forward a few meters at a time and stopping to waiting for my binoculars to kick in I was able to spot him from 137m. and 138m. respectively.
The coated optics add 10% to view range at all times, the binoculars add 25%, but only when stationary. The two don´t stack.

View PostAnarchyPOL, on 28 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

??
not the opposite? you are telling that WITH impr. vents you need to be closer to spot him?  :Smile_sceptic:
btw nice testing. thx/


Yep, it´s the opposite. I flipped the numbers my mistake. A typo, sorry.
It should read:
Chaffee WITH improved ventilation: distance I was able to spot T37, while it was in bush, using coated optics - 127m.
Chaffee WITHOUT improved ventilation: distance I was able to spot T37, while it was in bush, using coated optics - 124m.

Edited by maxcromwell, 28 February 2013 - 12:25 PM.


Eligius #25 Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:14 PM

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View Postmagyshadow, on 28 February 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

U persist on that "useless" word and you sound like you have some percentage of Improved ventilation sale. People are allowed to have different opinion you know?

But let's make you happy with an example........

You mentioned IS-3, it's been along time since I played it, but if I can remember correctly it's not all around tank it's a  brawler, so Rammer and GLD is a must, and now third slot..........
You will put ventilation for sure, but more aggressive players will put optics, players who like to fire from second line would take Vertical Stabilizer, and so on.

So perhaps if someone thinks that Improved Ventilation is not mother of all equipment hurts your feeling, but that's no reason to twist words just to make your point. It's a free world you can put Ventilation on all 3 slots if you like, but don't force others to do so.

Ok now i get. Sorry maybe there some language problem. I translate finish to english and words emphasis is different (or deep meaning? I don't know exactly word)

Useless= Less effective or not so useful.

I don't hurt my feeling if someone think ventilation is usele... less usefull.  More i want know why? what ppl think when they make that decision. If you think one situation i understand other eguip, but if you think overall situation usefulness chance.

You can't be all the time in the same role. Battle situation chance all time and eventually you find your self the situation where you need act different and some eguips is useless (exam. binos is useless if scout already drive circle around you or you face to face enemy and all what you can do is wait loading time.)

Sorry if you understand my motive wrong.
It's same to me what ppl choose. But i want that they know what they lose or get, if they choose different.

magyshadow #26 Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

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View PostEligius, on 28 February 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Ok now i get. Sorry maybe there some language problem. I translate finish to english and words emphasis is different (or deep meaning? I don't know exactly word)

Useless= Less effective or not so useful.

I don't hurt my feeling if someone think ventilation is usele... less usefull.  More i want know why? what ppl think when they make that decision. If you think one situation i understand other eguip, but if you think overall situation usefulness chance.

You can't be all the time in the same role. Battle situation chance all time and eventually you find your self the situation where you need act different and some eguips is useless (exam. binos is useless if scout already drive circle around you or you face to face enemy and all what you can do is wait loading time.)

Sorry if you understand my motive wrong.
It's same to me what ppl choose. But i want that they know what they lose or get, if they choose different.

I still think you have some percentage of Improved ventilation sale :Smile-tongue:

Eligius #27 Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:45 PM

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View Postmagyshadow, on 28 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:



I still think you have some percentage of Improved ventilation sale :Smile-tongue:

I work in luxury sale bisnes. Maybe i'm sound like that :)

Tasiorowski #28 Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:32 PM

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The thing is this little 5% is not enough but you feel it when it down. I had BiA on my Chaffee crew but reset it to other skills ( eagle eye, sniper  :Smile-playing:  ) and I felt that tank lost some of the "overall" performance. And if you use Vents + BiA and u will take it down you will probably feel quite big difference. The question is that this setup gives you quite good overall performance, but is not suitable for specialized setups. And light tanks ( especialy Chaffee ) can have some very specialized setups, like active/passive spoter, ninja scouting TD, invisible spammer and so on. BUT I had once VENT+ RAMMER + VSTAB and now I run it with Vents, Camonet + Binos. Accuracy on the move is still awesome, ROF is okay as I dont shoot as many now as I tend to shoot, and I consider to take off vents and put something else.

GloatingSwine #29 Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:44 AM

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View PostTidal_Force, on 28 February 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Tidal_Force to the rescue:
Also, keep in mind that BiA and Vents are the only ways to improve accuracy after reaching 100% gunner skill.
Also, keep in mind that accuracy has double benefits from skill increase 'cause it's measured as circle diameter (or radius, not important for what I'm trying to point out) therefore area of that circle (thing that really matters) benefits doubly because (1-x)^2~1-2x for small x (10% is small enough for this approximation to hold in this argument).

Also, keep in mind that 70% of your shots will land within 1/3 the radius of your aim circle from the centre, and 2.15% accuracy increase is almost imperceptible when applied to that inner circle.  And if your role in the battle is shooting things, having the circle start smaller and shrink faster will mean that you get reliable shots faster and more often, and v/stab and gld do that better than vents.

Aewodaersul #30 Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:15 AM

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View Postcro_bully, on 28 February 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Vents is udeful on tanks with long reload and long aiming time like an e-100
autoloader tank too since you cannot use a gld on them

Tidal_Force #31 Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:43 AM

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View PostGloatingSwine, on 01 March 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

Also, keep in mind that 70% of your shots will land within 1/3 the radius of your aim circle from the centre, and 2.15% accuracy increase is almost imperceptible when applied to that inner circle.  And if your role in the battle is shooting things, having the circle start smaller and shrink faster will mean that you get reliable shots faster and more often, and v/stab and gld do that better than vents.
You are right about shot distribution, and yes, for almost any other characteristic there is equipment that does it better, I was just pointing out that if you want to push accuracy further, Vents/BiA are the only way to go.

View PostTidal_Force, on 28 February 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

(1-x)^2~1-2x for small x
On the side note, I disagree with accuracy change being unnoticeable. Circle surface matters more than radius, and it gets 4.1% smaller with Vents, and about 8% smaller with Vents+Bia, that I think will be noticeable.

Edited by Tidal_Force, 02 March 2013 - 12:47 AM.


Forduc #32 Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:54 AM

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Well, I have holy trinity of Vent, Stab and Rammer for most tanks. Occasional Spall Liner. I feel that GLD is largely unneeded if Stab is available. Most tanks aim faster than reload anyway.

Vents effects on mobility and view range might be minimal, but they are still there. Camo and repair also. Hard to top that unless in a very specific role/tank. And even then there's only 2 equipment that give higher RoF, 3 that give better view range and 1-2 that give mobility.

MarkR17 #33 Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:28 AM

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Usually i slap vents on my tanks because there isnt something better avaiable..and using both stabilizer and gld is overkill..(unless its on a soviet heavy or any other tank with very long aim time)

Note that vents and BiA can improve one thing that most equipment, upgrades and skills cannot: the final accuracy.

However, the improvement is too small to make that much of a difference.
Then you have french autoloader tanks that cannot use rammers, so vents + gld + stabs. Also, their aim time is fairly long aswell.
Vents can be replaced with optics if you prefer scouting with them. Stabs are not always available, so pick optics instead after that.




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