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RU 251 (Upcoming T8 LT)


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Garrolus #1 Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:25 PM

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RU 251

(Spähpanzer Kette)


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History

In the early 1950’s Hotchkiss in France developed a series of tracked vehicles under contract to the French Army. The French Army did not order any but the German Army, in urgent need of modern vehicles, tested the prototypes and placed an order for a series of vehicles. Some 2,000 vehicles saw service with the Germans, mainly the Schützenpanzer 11-2 reconnaissance vehicles along with mortar carrier, command vehicle, ambulance and cargo carrier variants.

By the late 1950’s the SPz 11-2 design was overtaken when the German Army decided to develop a leichten Panzerfamilie (light armoured vehicle family). This consisted of a number of vehicles designed for different roles but all based on a common chassis. The vehicles comprising this family included a light tank and a tank destroyer. They also included a self-propelled anti-tank missile vehicle (the Jagdpanzer Rakete) and an armoured personnel carrier (the Marder Schützenpanzer).

The leichten Panzerfamilie tank destroyer saw wide service as the Jagdpanzer Kanone while the light tank was developed as the Spähpanzer Kette (reconnaissance armoured vehicle tracked). The Spähpanzer Kette was designed to replace the Germany Army’s old American M41 light tanks in the reconnaissance role. Its development began in 1960 and a prototype was completed in 1963. It mounted a Rheinmetall turret armed with the 90mm Bordkanone as used in the Jagdpanzer Kanone.

By the middle of the 1960s the Leopard tank was in production and it was decided that reconnaissance units did not need their own specialist vehicles. The development of the Spähpanzer Kette was dropped without any further vehicles being built and its role was given over to the Leopard. With hindsight, this may have been a hasty move as the wheeled Spähpanzer Luchs was eventually developed to take back this role from the Leopard.

Source

Specs:

Dimensions: 6.2 m x 3 m x 2.49 m
Crew: 4
Weight: 24 tons (loaded)
Speed: 78~80 km/h
Main Armament: 90 mm PzK
Engine: Daimler-Benz diesel, 500 hp
Ground pressure: 0.70 kg/sq.cm
Armor: 50-10 mm

Source | Source 2

MOBILITY

At 20.8 hp/t the RU 251 won't be exactly the flying race car, but compared to the other T8 LT's it isn't bad at all (AMX 17,7 hp/t and WZ-132 22,1 hp/t). Traverse speed and loss of speed during traverse are somewhat at the mercy of balancing but being T8 put's some pressure for it to be rather nimble. Add pivot turn and the possibility of a second engine around ~600hp and suddenly you find yourself creaming over this one.

ARMOR

Well, as a light tank your job isn't exactly tanking hits and so armor really just slows you down. It's roughly the same size of Pz IV but the 2,5 m height gives it a reasonably low silhouette. 50 mm UFP in 45 degree angle gives you a whopping 70 mm of effective armor which will be able to stop... well.. weapons up to tier IV. The interesting part though is wether it will get, and in what amounts and effectiveness spaced armor. The reason to this is that RU 251 is (sort of) related to Leopard 1 whose armor relies heavily on spaced armor.

FIREPOWER

"Historically" equipped with the 90 mm M36 from Patton 47. This would put RU 251 in the same bracket as WZ-132 gun-wise with a bit more "oomph" with 240 dmg/ shot. There has also been a statement that "the T8 German LT properties will be "about the same as those of the AMX-13/90"" which could mean, and has led to rumours about the possibility of an autoloader.

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Toshiro_Umezawa #2 Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

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Good review man, +1 from me.
One question, is this tank different from this one? Thanks for any reply.

Garrolus #3 Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:54 PM

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View PostToshiro_Umezawa, on 28 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Good review man, +1 from me.
One question, is this tank different from this one? Thanks for any reply.

Thanks. Tbh I'm no expert on the matter and all further info about the tank is highly welcome and I'll try to keep the OP to date. The fact that it's a prototype tank there's very little info about it. The Spähpanzer SP IC is a totally different tank from another manufacturer. The RU is a Ruhrstahl design (later Thyssen Henschel. The RU stands for Ruhrstahl the same way DB is Daimler-Benz etc.) and the one you posted was made by Hotchkiss / Klöckner-Humboldt-Deutz. It might be the same or a later prototype variant of the Schützenpanzer 11-2 mentioned in the history part that the RU 251 was ment to replace.

Edited by Garrolus, 28 February 2013 - 04:55 PM.


XCalibre #4 Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:56 PM

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View PostToshiro_Umezawa, on 28 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Good review man, +1 from me.
One question, is this tank different from this one? Thanks for any reply.

They're both Hotchkiss, but that one clearly has a rear-mounted turret and the RU-251 is known as "Spaehpanzer Kette" as mentioned (the "Spaehpanzer" part simply means "Scout Tank", meaning that the other part is the 'main name'.)

Personally, I expect this tank to reinstate a German light as an ultimate balanced scout - if not absolute ultimate scout.

Leopard, T-50 and M5 Stuart have always stood side by side as did VK-2801, T-50-2 and M24 Chaffee. But since the WZ-132, T71, and AMX 1390, these 'top' scouts have met stiff competition, and with the dawn of 8.4, the entire German Light Tank tree has been 'nerfed' in a sense, I highly wish them to have a German Light take it's place as one of the pinnacles of scouting vehicles... I just feel they 'deserve' it, but that's more of a personal thing.

EDIT: I highly approve of OP's Gus Tarballs avatar. Jagged Alliance 2 was among the kings of TBS.

Edited by XCalibre, 28 February 2013 - 05:01 PM.


HariSeldon #5 Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:58 PM

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View PostToshiro_Umezawa, on 28 February 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Good review man, +1 from me.
One question, is this tank different from this one? Thanks for any reply.

Yes, a lot, that is more like T71, and kette is more like mini E50M, talking about visuals only, performance wise, Kette is faster and have better gun while SP IC is nimbler (30cv/t). But both are protos.

MarkR17 #6 Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:54 PM

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This thing cant get a revolver mag like these AMX-13 tanks due the turret shape alone..this is not an oscilliating turret.
Mabye with "being similar to the AMX 13 90" it was meant that this light would perform likely like the AMX 13 90, the biggest difference being the lack of an autoloader?

Since this tank is not a tier 10 tank, it will likely get some upgrades on its way. Usually a 2nd gun, a 2nd engine, you know..

Cobra6 #7 Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:59 PM

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If I have to choose between this thing and my VK2801 as top scout I choose my VK2801. At least I know of that vehicle that it's fun to drive and is actually balanced at the moment.

But we'll see what the future brings I guess.

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HariSeldon #8 Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:41 PM

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If i have to choose a substitute, by the look, of vk, this is not bad, i like how it looks, and hp ton ratio doesnt sound bad, height is fine, and angle, the only thing we could rely with speed to avoid be damaged, is not bad either, seems like it can bounce sometimes.

The worst part will be the time we have to wait to see it, and the tan between vk and this...scout panther....my mind is terrified of how i will have to handdle such a big moster in light role, i hope a high speed to run, or it will be a longggg gring that will surpass jp4, stock E50, arl v39 stock, and vk3002db (other tanks where awful, but grind were not that big....but tier 7....omg pray).

Snailsaviour #9 Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

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The moment i knew this one is coming, I wanted one! good replacement for the VK2801! still have to grind through the panther light tier 7 when it comes out!

Garrolus #10 Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:39 PM

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View PostMarkR17, on 28 February 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

This thing cant get a revolver mag like these AMX-13 tanks due the turret shape alone..this is not an oscilliating turret.
Mabye with "being similar to the AMX 13 90" it was meant that this light would perform likely like the AMX 13 90, the biggest difference being the lack of an autoloader?

Since this tank is not a tier 10 tank, it will likely get some upgrades on its way. Usually a 2nd gun, a 2nd engine, you know..

Autoloaders aren't dependant on an oscillating turret, it just makes it easier to install because the gun system is fixed to the turret. There's an autoloader tank in WoT without an oscillating turret as well. T-25 had an automatic drum feed of 15 rounds IRL but not in-game so things can happen. But it strikes me, why mention AMX 13 90? The accuracy/aim time can't be that bad, I sure as hell hope it has a lot better turn rate than AMX... In all logic this should be like WZ-132, not AMX.. So it leaves you thinking.

On the upgrades, yeah, though everything is possible, the WZ has an engine upgrade that doesn't give you more hp and T-54 has an engine upgrade that gives you 120 hp more than it actually had. So there's reference in the game that reality and historical accuracy goes out of the window when it comes down to balance.

Tazilon #11 Posted 02 March 2013 - 04:40 AM

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Remember however, that top speed is when you go downhill.  on the flat, it will be much slower, 65 km/h i think will top it out.,

Tazilon #12 Posted 02 March 2013 - 04:41 AM

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View PostGarrolus, on 28 February 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Autoloaders aren't dependant on an oscillating turret, it just makes it easier to install because the gun system is fixed to the turret. There's an autoloader tank in WoT without an oscillating turret as well. T-25 had an automatic drum feed of 15 rounds IRL but not in-game so things can happen. But it strikes me, why mention AMX 13 90? The accuracy/aim time can't be that bad, I sure as hell hope it has a lot better turn rate than AMX... In all logic this should be like WZ-132, not AMX.. So it leaves you thinking.

On the upgrades, yeah, though everything is possible, the WZ has an engine upgrade that doesn't give you more hp and T-54 has an engine upgrade that gives you 120 hp more than it actually had. So there's reference in the game that reality and historical accuracy goes out of the window when it comes down to balance.

This game PRETENDS it is historical.  Sticking to history in terms of tank performance is a myth for Wargaming.  They do not come close to providing historical models.

Garrolus #13 Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:36 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 02 March 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Remember however, that top speed is when you go downhill.  on the flat, it will be much slower, 65 km/h i think will top it out.,

I don't think that came out quite as you ment, but I can't really buy that. You can achieve speeds over 100 km/h with T-50-2 going downhill (72 km/h "top speed") so even when the top speed is almost an arbitrary number, I expect the flatland cruising speed to be well over 65 km/h with this. Of course when the current fashion is to root out every flat part of every map, getting to those speeds is even harder.

View PostHariSeldon, on 28 February 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

The worst part will be the time we have to wait to see it

I've been silently hoping for a surprise introduction in 8.5 since it's only two tanks (in addition to the mediums) but being that overly optimistic will result in a big disappointment. I just hope it wont become another German TD line... That'd result in some serious depression problems for my VK crew... "break out the Prozac Oberleutnant Braune".

HariSeldon #14 Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:01 AM

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8.5 almost here and still nothing in kette, and auk panther....well, i dont know if i really want to know something about it =P

General_Chukhan #15 Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:00 PM

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Anyone has information about this tank's release? I'm very impatient  :playing: .

Squale #16 Posted 07 May 2013 - 08:49 PM

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Last information I've read, he won't be in 0.8.6.

General_Chukhan #17 Posted 08 May 2013 - 09:37 AM

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So I have more time to accumulate XP with Afk. Panther :P . Btw I want to pwn the T8 french and chinese bugs now  :trollface: .

Lancasthor #18 Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:00 AM

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Cozy 125k Xp with Auf. Should be enough.

Some strange twist of fate made me like driving that coffin though, so there will be more.

I_Manth #19 Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:53 AM

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Is there anyone who has an idea when the RU 251 will arive? It looks like a tank that could be fun to drive.

Raphael1607 #20 Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:50 PM

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Expecting it for 8.8 but it'll probably rather appear in 8.9.




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