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LET'S REDESIGN: German Tank Destroyers

German TankDestroyer Research Redesign Tech Tree

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Celution #1 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:13 AM

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There is so much awesome potential for the German Tank Destroyer Lines, and yet WG wants to add 3 completely fictional tanks as top tiers (the so called Waffenträgers) in the upcoming 2nd TD line (like the T28 Prototype). Germany designed and created an enormous amount of Tank Destroyers and Assault guns, during and post WW2.

I think WG overlooks so much potential and I therefore present a possible redesign for these two lines. The idea is to create two lines, which each have their specialities. Both lines start from the Marder II (tier III), where one of them are (for the most part) mostly open topped, mobile but relatively lightly armed vehicles which have excellent firepower. The second line are (for the most part) more sluggish, relatively heavily armored vehicles with good firepower.

Now for the basic research tree:

Posted Image

There are things you will notice immediately:
*Jagdtiger dropped from Tier IX to tier VIII
*Ferdinand is only available from the Tiger P
*Jagdpanzer E-100 and StuG E-100

Do not freak out, there is a reason for everything and this concept isn't claimed final :)!

Now for the details of the new and edited vehicles:

Marder III Ausf. H (Tier IV)
Spoiler                     

Marder III Ausf. M (Tier V)
Spoiler                     

Nashorn (Tier VI)
Spoiler                     

Sturer Emil (Tier VII)
Spoiler                     

Jagdpanther II (Tier VIII)
Spoiler                     

Jagdtiger (Tier VIII)
Spoiler                     

Jagdpanzer E-50 (Tier IX)
Spoiler                     

Jagdpanzer E-75 (Tier IX)
Spoiler                     

StuG E-100 (Tier X)
Spoiler                     

Jagdpanzer E-100 (Tier X)
Spoiler                     

And the details about the respective guns that are new. (I chose to not yet calculate DPM and gun statistics for all the tree, just for these guns. But in the case of the 12,8 cm PaK 44 L/61 on the Jagdpanzer E-50, it will be exactly like how it is on the Jagdtiger right now):
7,5 cm PaK 40/3
Spoiler                     

7,5 cm PaK 40 L/70
Spoiler                     

8,8 cm PaK 43/1 L/71
Spoiler                     

10,5 cm K 19 L/52
Spoiler                     

12,8 cm K 40 L/61
Spoiler                     

15 cm PaK 44 L/53
Spoiler                     

15 cm PaK 46 L/63
Spoiler                     

Tell me what you think (what is good/bad, what should be changed?). Oh, and I'm not claiming this is thé way to go, don't bash me with things like 'not going to happen', it doesn't add anything, and making such concepts is fun to do in general.. :Smile_blinky:

Edited by Celution, 10 March 2013 - 12:05 PM.


SuicideC0mmand0 #2 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:23 AM

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what about the "Brummbär/Sturmpanzer IV"? Wiki-Page

BattleMetalChris #3 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:24 AM

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The picture of the Jagdpanzer E-75 made me do a sex wee.

Celution #4 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:26 AM

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Though you are right about the StuPa being an Assault Gun, it would fit more as a premium vehicle as the vehicle is pure derp. The hull also cannot mount any good Guns besides derp guns, which would look a bit weird inside the design that I made above. It doesn't fit in that design. But as said, there are so many Assault Guns and Tank Destroyers designed by the Germans, you could most likely even make a 3rd line (or a half one)!

View PostBattleMetalChris, on 09 March 2013 - 12:24 AM, said:

The picture of the Jagdpanzer E-75 made me do a sex wee.

Yes for me too! In fact, this exact picture made me begin this concept!

Edited by Celution, 09 March 2013 - 12:26 AM.


AmberJay #5 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:27 AM

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Well, the very 1st thing i would change on the german td line is the gun selection of the poor jpz4.

Silentstalker #6 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:29 AM

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Stopped reading at Jagdpanzer E-50 and E-75, which are both fakes. StuG E-100 (I assume you mean the Krokodil) is also a complete fake. Don't trust everything written on the internet.

Celution #7 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:30 AM

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Agreed, but I think the 8,8 cm PaK 36 L/56 (and the KwK 36) simply needs a penetration buff to around 152mm, this would pretty much solve its problems.


View PostSilentstalker, on 09 March 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Stopped reading at Jagdpanzer E-50 and E-75, which are both fakes. StuG E-100 (I assume you mean the Krokodil) is also a complete fake. Don't trust everything written on the internet.

Oh I don't assume everything is real. I just think these two are MUCH better alternatives over the Waffenträgers which will also be WG inventions (and we all know how those worked out). the StuG E-100 is what it is, the Jagdpanzer E-100 is nicknamed the Krokodil (the Jagdpanther-like design).
Plus that I personally think these two research lines falls much better together, as the vehicles are more similar in playstyle, looks and design.

Edited by Celution, 09 March 2013 - 12:33 AM.


Silentstalker #8 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:36 AM

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View PostCelution, on 09 March 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Oh I don't assume everything is real. I just think these two are MUCH better alternatives over the Waffenträgers which will also be WG inventions (and we all know how those worked out). the StuG E-100 is what it is, the Jagdpanzer E-100 is nicknamed the Krokodil (the Jagdpanther-like design).
Plus that I personally think these two research lines falls much better together, as the vehicles are more similar in playstyle, looks and design.

In that case, I want a Leman Russ. Or a Shadowsword, that's a titankiller, that's close enough to TD's.

No, seriously mate... no fakes. And if you HAVE to include some suspension of disbelief, at least include believable fakes, that would have worked. Krokodil wouldn't work and there are tons of threads on that topic, even H.Doyle said (wrote) it's a complete fake made by a modeller. Hell, I could make up a tank looking good too, that doesn't mean it should be implemented.

Celution #9 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:40 AM

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View PostSilentstalker, on 09 March 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:



In that case, I want a Leman Russ. Or a Shadowsword, that's a titankiller, that's close enough to TD's.

No, seriously mate... no fakes. And if you HAVE to include some suspension of disbelief, at least include believable fakes, that would have worked. Krokodil wouldn't work and there are tons of threads on that topic, even H.Doyle said (wrote) it's a complete fake made by a modeller. Hell, I could make up a tank looking good too, that doesn't mean it should be implemented.

No offense but that's pretty pathetic. If you want no fakes, lets remove 50% of all tanks, guns and guns available on tanks immediately. Hell, we can even remove the whole idea about the current game, I mean, we don't want any unreal events happening! The argument that the Krokodil is a complete fake doesn't matter. WoT isn't going after historical realism or accuracy. As I said there are already many fake things in WoT.

toniks123 #10 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:44 AM

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View PostSilentstalker, on 09 March 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

In that case, I want a Leman Russ. Or a Shadowsword, that's a titankiller, that's close enough to TD's.

No, seriously mate... no fakes. And if you HAVE to include some suspension of disbelief, at least include believable fakes, that would have worked. Krokodil wouldn't work and there are tons of threads on that topic, even H.Doyle said (wrote) it's a complete fake made by a modeller. Hell, I could make up a tank looking good too, that doesn't mean it should be implemented.
I agree.
Some tanks in game (mostly german) were only mentioned in form of text,not even a prototype was built.
But they were considered in the end.
This Jadgpanzer is complete fake,so are  JadgE 50 and JadgE 75.

Celution #11 Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:54 AM

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View Posttoniks123, on 09 March 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:


I agree.
Some tanks in game (mostly german) were only mentioned in form of text,not even a prototype was built.
But they were considered in the end.
This Jadgpanzer is complete fake,so are  JadgE 50 and JadgE 75.

As said two times in this thread already, if you only want tanks that have prototypes lets remove the following tanks to start with: T28 Prot. T110E5, T110E4, T110E3, AMX50F155, GW Typ E, GW Panther, Object 212, Object 263, T25/2, E-50, E-50M, E-75, Jagdpanther II, T21, T71, T69, T54E1, T57 Heavy and I can go on like that. I won't even start about guns available! Once again, a very bad argument that you're using.

Huglum2 #12 Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:01 AM

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no fakes eh?
Let´s remove 50% of the French guns, several of the german guns examples 7,5 l100, 8,8 l100 etc, revalued stats on 90% of the Russian guns, US guns would get away rather lightly I guess same for the Brits.
Same goes for the vehicles just because someone drew something on a dirty napkin doesn´t make it more viable.

This game left the path of model realism a long time ago so inventing more bogus isn´t that far off, besides implementing a Leman Russ would make WG pay a licence fee to Games Workshop also lazors, so stop bullshitting while the op made some quite interesting offers.

Medjed #13 Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:03 AM

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E50M is fake tank made by WG so who gives a sh*t? Krokodile would be at least decent and nice looking unlike this horrendous creature we have now called JgpzE100.

dUG1 #14 Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:07 AM

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Cant comment on E50, 75 and 100, all being fan-made fiction, but Jagdtiger at tier 8 instead of that (oh look) FAKE Jagdpanther 2?

Yes please!
And while you are at it, make more moneyz by selling JP2 as a premium TD - win-win for us and WG.

That brick is already the worst tier 9 TD, and bringing it down to tier 8 + leaving only "historical" 12.8 would do wonders for it.
Are we going to get it?
No.

Btw, I would personally put Ferdinand one tier lower, take away his 12.8 and leave 88/105 option.
That way you could choose from more mobile and less armored JP, and less mobile but more armored Ferdi.
Win-win again in any case, but really, are we going to get it?
Again - no, because logical, fun and working ideas, no one complains about, are not welcome in WG.

FidelisRaven #15 Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:10 AM

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Let's go back to the topic... I personally like the proposed tech tree. Also, I'd put Brummbar as premium arty, say, tier V or VI.

Silentstalker #16 Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:11 AM

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This is one of the times when I'm really grateful Wargaming doesn't listen to every crap players propose. What a load of garbage. Unlike the Krokodil and other shit made up by modellers, tanks such as E50M have at least some historical background (the powerpack solution for example was proposed at the end of the war).
The whole proposal is silly by the way - ever heard of Marder III with KwK 42? I haven't. Stop making arbitrary shit up just for the sake of mixup, there are enough real designs to build branches with.

Silentstalker #17 Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:11 AM

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View PostdUG1, on 09 March 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Cant comment on E50, 75 and 100, all being fan-made fiction, but Jagdtiger at tier 8 instead of that (oh look) FAKE Jagdpanther 2?

Funnily enough, Jagdpanther II wasn't a fake, a TD proposal on Panther II chassis actually really existed.

Ioituma #18 Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:12 AM

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Especially since that would make Ferdi totally useless. Same gun, less armor, slightly worse mobility. Not gonna happen.

power4 #19 Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:14 AM

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We I have to inform you that before 5 months WG had a leak about German td which was a picture of gw tiger td version ,its coming to high tier td line !

Superpilotv2 #20 Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:26 AM

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These Marder´s look awesome. Especially the T4 Marder III Ausf. H would be in my garage without any thinking.





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